God's existencegreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
Someone told me that the Good's existence can be demostrated by Maths. Does anyone know how to do it?
-- Carmen (cpineda@banamex.com), February 16, 1998
repeat the question
-- steven ambuul (ambust00@usfca.edu), February 25, 1998.
The question is: Demostrate Good's existence by Maths or by Logics... someone told some years ago a way to do that but I don't remember it. I believe on Good and I think there are many ways to demostrate that he is with us (like the 7 ways of St. Tomas), but I want to explain it to scientific persons who don't believe so easily.
-- Carmen (cpineda@banamex.com), February 26, 1998.
One answer might be that, scientifically speaking, nothing can move on its own. Everything must be set into motion by something else. Water is set into motion by winds, rotation of earth and such. We are set into motion by fertilization of an egg. A ball is set into motion by someone throwing/kicking it and such. There must therefore be One who began the whole process. A Master Engineer who is the only one to move Himself and everything else. I don't think this is what you are looking for, but perhaps it will be a catalyst into something more profound.
-- nicole heisey (heisey@erols.com), March 04, 1998.
This is a perfect reason to prove that God DOESN'T exist - man made him up. If everything has to be set into motion - then who created the God who created us? And who created the God who created the God who created us? See people - the infinity block. Your religion is a bunch of mythology - forget it and find true religion - help save the world and yourselves by stopping the killing and the suffering imposed by all these ficiticious religions.
-- (r-haynes@students.uiuc.edu), March 06, 1999.
Take any number that isn't times(X) by 7 and devide it by 7 and you will get eternity.
-- Michael (mdroe@erinet.com), March 07, 1999.
In reply to the argument of "then who created God?", everything we know in the natural order requires a beginning, a cause, something that creates something from something else. Everything comes from something! Except, the original force that started all of this. It's the only rational explanation for how the universe came about. If you hold out your hand and there is nothing in it accept the air above it, and then you remove the air, then you have nothing. Correct? Well, not quite, you still have something and that something is called "nothing". Now suppose we had "super-human" qualities and were able to remove the "nothing" called "nothing" then what would we have? We would have what was here before anything was created, right? Well, in order for "something", "anything", to come from "nothing" it is only logical that this action of "creation" must not be of this world, as we understand it, because nothing in this world possesses the properties to enable it to perform such a feat, we are aware of, right? Therefore, this "action" must be of a nature completely foreign or alien to us. Remember, as we know the universe, you cannot get something from nothing. Now, let's call this "action" the "force", or the "event", or the "happening" or the "Big Bang" or the "beginning of time" or whatever you want to call it, it doesn't really matter what label we put on it. I prefer to call it "God", simply because I was raised with this term to explain this being or force. Then the next logical step is to examine that force, alien to us, which we do not understand, for isn't it in man's nature to seek out the truth in all things. Having said that, then, what kind of "God" is this force? Is "God" the force itself or was this force that we do not understand created by this "God" for as you say, all things must have a creator, right? I choose to believe that the force itself cannot be the "be- all" and the "end-all" for that would require intelligence, and lots of it, to set things up in the universe the way they are today. No, the force itself cannot be the creator of everything in and of itself. Therefore, something, someone with a tremendous amount of intelligence and ability and power must be directing everything. Is everybody with me so far? Good! So, another "being" must be in control of this force, a being with intelligence as we know it, but far more intelligent then we can imagine! Now, it is obvious that this being behind the force which I choose to name "God" is not something or someone we are familiar with. We then, in our search for truth, must dig deeper into this mystery, it's our nature. There is nothing else like "it" or "Him" or "Her" known to man. This being then, in order for us to explain "it's" origin logically, we then must reason, must have had an ability to create it's "own self" or must have "always been" or "always was". These are notions completely foreign to us. And by the way, if your argument is that all of this was created from happenstance, and that the natural order of the universe as we know it just happened along in its perfect order, then I have some beautiful ocean-front property in Arizona I'd be willing to let you have real cheap! If we then acknowledge a being who must be in control of all things; we have to ask ourselves, then, what kind of "God" is this being? What does He want from us, if anything? Is He just playing around like a child plays in a sand box and creates something with no ultimate purpose? Even a child has the sand box placed there by someone! Why has He done all of this, and where is He going with all of this? Some other questions that might arise, are what is He like? Does He have any rules, and if so, what are they? What upsets Him, because I don't want to be responsible for upsetting any being that is this powerful. Has He ever tried to talk to us or contact us, and, if so, what could He possibly want to communicate to us? These rational arguments then lead us to investigate all happenings in this world that seem to be of nature foreign to us in anticipation that these happenings might be this interaction from this being we are looking for. I hope you have enjoyed my little hypothesis, and if you would like to find out what I've been able to discover beyond this point, please let me know. I would also be interested in your comments regarding the above. Don't worry! I'm not some "crazed religious fanatic" who is out to talk you into some weird cult of some sort. I am merely interested in discussing the possibility of God and what characteristics He might posses so that I might be better aware of what He expects from me! What do you think?
-- Ed Lauzon Sr. (grader@accglobal.net), March 03, 2000.
Let us consider the beginning.Imagine endless empty space that goes on into infinity non-existence no awareness EVIL.
If we consider the old saying life finds away. GOD came into being by his own will to be, the awareness. Born out of the non-existence the EVIL.
Imagine an awareness hovering in endless space or Darkness as HE would see it.
After a time his thoughts become collective and he begins to think. He is aware of himself and begins to wonder if there were another. After searching for countless billions of years, the loneliness consumes him into obsession with finding another. But there is no other but him. He splits into two separate entities (schizoid only for real) that are equal and opposite in nature. Light - that which creates (Life - the future). Darkness(SHE : Spirit that inhabits the Darkness- The past) - Destroys makes desolate. Each has the same goal to end the loneliness only they have diametrically opposite positions on how to go about it. Chaos vs. Order, Light vs. Darkness, Life vs. Death, Existence vs. non-existence or Good vs. Evil. GOD is the awareness of being before the Darkness. We stand between the Darkness and the Light. Our true purpose is to Be. For that is the will of GOD - to be because HE is. Ja'El they said. When GOD comes again if he comes into Darkness the Earth will be cleansed with the fire of GOD (His true form). If GOD comes into the Light he will make the Earth a new with the Tree and the River of Life. All things are possible if we believe. The power of the Holy Spirit is promised to us by Jesus Christ.
That is why no one has seen GOD because he became separate from himself. The two have to be united into their new form. They want to come and live us,their children and the Angles of Light and Darkness. We are the key to setting them Free from the loneliness forever. Revelation chap 17 Behold the Beast that was (EVIL or non-existence reined in the beginning there was no awareness) and is not (Evil- the tendency towards non-existence cannot exist in pure form) and yet is (If we lose our sense of awareness the EVIL will return and nothing will exist)
The River of Life is man's final salvation. The fruit of Tree of Life is for the Fallen Angles Consummation, Turn from Darkness back to the awareness of GOD. The Leaves are for the Healing of the Nations. The sword of Power blocks our way to it and blinds us from The one who was (The True GOD, the past) The one who is (Man the children of GOD, the present) The one who will be (Christ - the son of man, the future). We will become like the others and they will become like us. The evolution.
The way is through Awareness - GOD's will to be. Understanding is Knowing the Truth Understanding is Accepting the Truth The Truth leads to Understanding which leads to Awareness which strengthens our will to Be.
The Truth is put before us but, they do everything they can to keep us from Understanding it.
We have to show them that we are not children anymore. That we have learned to Understand the Truth. And the Truth shall set us all Free. They are counting on us and we can't let them down. But it is ultimately up to them to change - Free will.
Mystery? Who are you? Man who stands between the Darkness and the Light. What do you want? Freedom Why are you here? To bring order to chaos. Where are you going? The Future
The End of Time - The New Beginning
-- Darian Borne (shadows@vmbc.net), December 01, 2000.
Friends,If you wish to converse with Mr. Borne, please go to the thread he started (and to which I responded). It is called, "I'm looking for intelligent opinions not blind lashings Thank you." He posted the same message to start that thread. Please do not respond to him here.
SN
-- (free@long.last), December 02, 2000.