So, I was wondering if anyone out there could give me some info on portaledges. I am finally going to break down and buy one, but I'm not sure which kind. I have used a abused A5 ledges, and was wondering if anyone has info or opinions on FISH ledges? Anyone that owns one please respond to this, as all I really need is some opinions. I already know all the specs and facts on both types, so just tell me why you hate or love that FISH ledge. Thanks, and keep going up!

-- Mike T. (mtea@ptc.com), April 17, 1998

Answers

I have a fish double ledge. I like it because it is simple, realitively light, and easy to set up at hanging belays. It is quite roomy for two, especially if your tall. Although I am not. It has a lot of places to sew in loops to hang gear, stove, etc. The adjustment system is good also, I can always get the thing perfectly flat. I have never used an A5, but would think they are about the same. One downfall of the fish ledge is the fly is a pain in the ass to get into the bag with the ledge. Hence, why I keep it in the regular haul bag. I just saw the new black diamond ledge and it looks awesome. Way easy to set up!!! However, it is a little heavier. I might buy one when I have the money. Later, Ronnie

-- Ronnie Miller (dylan-miller@juno.com), April 17, 1998.

The FISH ledge is nearly identical to the A5, but the A5 is about a million times burlier - bigger tubing, etc. I have a friend who has had serious problems with his FISH ledge collapsing, so he got an A5 and is super happy. For absolute bombproofness, the A5 is way better.

The new Black Diamond ledge is really really nice, but substantially heavier due to the ends being two tubes instead of one. The tent that bibler makes to go with the BD double ledge seems like an awesome alternative to a fly, as you could also use it separately.

-- Steve Waydo (waydo@u.washington.edu), April 21, 1998.

Check out the review of big wall equipment in two issues of Rock & Ice last year (I think July/August '97 and Sept./Oct. '97. Their conclusions were the A5 double is the best, followed by the Fish double, followed by the Pika single (Pika only makes a single). Fish has corrected the one glaring difference between their's and the A5 in the '98 models (micro strap adjustments at a location adjustable while in bed). The new Black Diamond Skyledge looks way cool and easy to set up, but I have not had a chance to see one in the store. If you have time, you may want to examine the BD Skyledge once it is released before buying an A5 or Fish.

-- Mark A. Fletcher (mfletche@turnerdesigns.com), May 08, 1998.

I used a FISH double portaledge on the Shield last year, and I regret to say that it was DICEY. I happen to love FISH products, they are the best, and certainly the most bitchin'. But that double ledge...great for one person, get two decent size guys in there and things get scary! One gets the impression that if you added just a little more weight the whole contraption would implode. It creaks, the outer poles bend inward, the pole ends permanently bulge out. Every time you move it seems like the thing will collapse. Then you try to lay down and go to sleep; Houdini would have trouble getting into a sleeping bag with somebody next to him in that thing. Then the inner person gets crushed. Good that you are so exhausted that you still sort of sleep. I will say that the fly seems bomber, even though we did not use it. Setup is fairly easy also. I have not used any other brand, but we saw some guys in an A5 double, the poles seemed much stiffer. A slightly larger size would be excellent, perhaps the A5 Cliff Cabana. Or two FISH doubles, one for each guy. They are killer with one person in them, and then there is a backup if one ledge breaks. Hope this helps!

-- Tom Michael (TKM777@aol.com), May 27, 1998.

By far the worst ledges around have to be the Pika doubles, their pritty light and compact but thoes guys sized up the fly with no one inside, so when you both get into it the hem of the fly is about a foot above the base! Even if you bring down the suspension it still dosn't work, maybe all that sheep shaggin has gone to there heads. While on the subject of Pika their key hole hangers don't go over machine head nuts and their hook can be dogdy becouse the tips arn't always straight! As for the Fish legde, there was a guy soloing Iron Hawk last year who's Fish ledge's bungee cord snapped so he coundn't disemble his ledge for two weeks! I think that A5 seem to have put a lot into development and even thoe the're part of TNF it seems to have payed off. The Fish One night stand is a good ledge thoe, perfect for two (sitting bivi's) on Alpine walls wear you may be packing the ledge on easer mixed ground.

And theres always the string hammock!

Cheers

-- Andy Kirkpatrick (113666.421@compuserve.com), May 28, 1998.

I forgot to mention another potential two-person wall sleeping solution: a FISH double ledge combined with a FISH One-Night Stand. This is a small one-man ledge that would probably be far more comfy than being crammed in with another climber in the double ledge; if it rains, then both climbers can get cozy in the double. It would also make a great belay seat, I would leave it set up all day. I have not tryed this combination, but I am considering buying one.

-- Tom Michael (TKM777@aol.com), May 30, 1998.

Man, there's a lot of bullshit going on in this discussion. First of all, all double ledges are a bit tight with two people in them. The one, possible, exception is the A5 Cliff Cabana. The thing is way HUGE, but face it, two people are going to fill the space pretty quickly...

That being said, I've spent many many many a night in my FISH double with a partner. A couple of nights have been seriously stormy. Never had a problem with the ledge. The fly system is WAY bombproof. No leaky zippers for a door either. This could be a drag if you're trying to belay with the fly on, but then again, who wants to climb in the rain anyways. To the guy who used his FISH on the shield, you're pretty light if you felt the thing was dicey.

I have never slept in an A5 ledge but have done climbs with partners that had an A5. They're fine. I think the FISH ledge is a little easier/quicker to set up because you don't have to thread any poles through the bed etc. I've gotten mine so that I can just sort of shake it out and it's pretty much ready to go with just a few adjustements.

I've spent well over 22 nights in my FISH ledge, plus the ledge has been up several other walls without me. The thing has probably 30-40 nights on the wall. Not a single problem. It's probably due for a new bed but that because of general wear and tear as opposed to design flaw. Of those nights, 4 have been storm nights, the last one lasting over 36 continuous hours. The tent pole hoop system is way cush on the FISH- I think A5 offers one now, but they didn't used to.

I'd say you're probably splitting hairs deciding between a FISH and A5 double ledge unless you're considering plunking down serious dough for the Cliff Cabana. So, the FISH comes out on top because it's cheaper than the A5 but just as good.

Cheers Eric

-- Eric Coomer (coomer@ix.netcom.com), June 17, 1998.

Dudes, I am the guy who soloed Iron Hawk with the Fish double. It's true, the bungee cord snapped, and since I hadn't yet read Chongo's book, I didn't know the right way to flag the ledge. In defense of Russ Walling at Fish, he sent me FOR FREE a new bungee, and later, a new suspension system (free)and a new aluminum tube (like $8). The benefit of Fish is that he will STAND BEHIND HIS PRODUCT! If you have a problem, he'll fix it. As for the ledge, I've spent at least 57 nites on El Cap sleeping on the thing, both alone and with partners. I like it a lot - so far it's more or less untested in the rain. I heard some of his flies were shipped out uncoated, and I believe I got one of the uncoated ones. Again, Russ sent me a bottle of NikWax waterproofing for free. I coated the living bejeepers out of it, and used like 6 tubes of seam grip on the seams. Don't forget your bivi sack, though. So I would recommend the Fish double because it works, and especially because of the service. DON'T EVER BUY A SINGLE LEDGE! For what it costs extra, you might as well have a double - you have the option of a partner, or just plain luxurious accomodations when on your own. The only problem I can see with a Fish ledge is that the adjustment buckles should be steel, not plastic. Are you listening, Russ? Cheers, Pass the Pitons Pete Zabrok

-- "Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok (pzabrok@netcom.ca), February 17, 1999.

The first ledge I ever used was an A5 double circa 1992, easy to set up light and comfortable. Great! We then ended up buying a Fish double which served well for many years, though a bit short and narrow for 2 people . After many walls the Fish just plain wore out, so we just switched back to an A5 Cliff Cabanna. Having just returned from field testing the A5 on the Zodiac I would say the review is mixed. The larger size on the A5 is great, but the HUGE weight increase of ledge and fly over the old fish left us wondering if the extra size was worth it. Remember you not only have to sleep in it, you have to haul it the base, haul it up the route and then haul it all back down again when your pooped. In other words nothing diffinitive to say, they both have there ups and downs.

-- Doug Nurock (dnurock@yahoo.com), September 24, 1999.

Just to beat the topic into the ground, I just did Tangerine Trip with my FISH double ledge and a FISH One-Night Stand ledge. We had two people, one for each ledge, and yet we could both squeeze into the FISH double ledge if it rained (which it did not). The One-Night Stand is amazingly comfortable to sleep in, certainly far superior to two guys in a double ledge. And it is way more stable than any other ledge, so I kept it out for the belays. A great combo.

-- Tom Michael (TKM777@aol.com), October 20, 1999.