I'm an avid amateur, been playing with my Pentax K1000 for years and occassionally get some really good shots. I'm unhappy, however, that what I try for is almost never what I get - mostly because of the grey values.

Recently I found the excellent on-line document about the Zone system, which I started on, then realized it wasn't going to be easy.

Is it worthwhile for an amateur using a 35mm "beginner" camera who probably doesn't spend enough time worrying about the details of photography to try and learn the Zone system?

BTW, I live in slickrock country, so what I am usually trying for is to get nice tones out of sunblasted sandstone (many times, right at or after sunset is only solution). Thanks for any responses!

-- Clay Hamilton (clay@lasal.net), July 04, 1998

Answers

Oops! Forgot something

This is my first post here. Just recently found this site and am very impressed with it - have had a lot of fun following the links and reading the information. Keep up the good work!

-- Clay Hamilton (clay@lasal.net), July 04, 1998.

The short answer to your quesition is, yes, it is worth while to learn the zone system, even for an amatuer with a simple camera.

The long answer involves your dedication to learning a rather complicated system. If you want to improve your photography, eduaction is the best place to start, that, and taking a lot of pictures and making a lot of prints.

I think you will find a point where you have an "aha!" experience while learning the zone system. At that point it will all start to make sense, and I think you will find that the system is not complicated at all, and in fact, makes the process of making an exposure, very simple and predictable.

I would recommend that you invest in Ansel Adams books, The Camera, The Negative and The Print, and Fred Pickers book The Zone System Workshop. These are the ones I used, and can recommend, there are others but I am not familiar with thier merits.

Knowing that you need to do something to improve is a good sign, now take a couple of years to work on your technique, and you 'll get better. Good luck, and work hard.

-- Marv (mthompson@clinton.net), July 04, 1998.

One suggestion that will improve your photographs now would be to use a green or cyan filter for your rock pictures. The different tones you see in color don't really show up when you read them with a meter or print them in B&W. A green filter will help to seperate these colors.

-- Jeff White (zonie@computer-concepts.com), July 04, 1998.

The key to the zone system is a spot meter. The zone system is really for figuring out how to expose and develop the film for the values you want in the scene. Yes, it's worthwhile to learn, no, it's not difficult, and it may not be the solution to your problem. (I started out with the zone system because my camera doesn't have a meter, and I found a used spot meter.)

The base of the zone system is getting the meter value of what is in the scene. That shadow, that highlight, and everything in between. Then you must know how your film reacts to exposure. After that, you adjust your exposure to the scene and film, and develop accordingly.

Jeff White likely has the best answer: filters. And reading Ansel Adam's books. I went from point & shoot to medium format in about two months with Ansel. (OK, so it was point & shoot and then medium format with nothing in between, what the hey)

Yeah, everybody who doesn't like the shades in their photos blames the Greys, er, grey values. (grin, too much Art Bell)

Are you getting texture in your white rocks? Yes:good; No:it's overexposed. Are the pitch black areas clear on the negative? Do you use filters to change values? A basic set of yellow, green, orange, and red filters is a good idea. Since you're photographing (I presume red) rock, also buy a blue filter. The blue filter will also add a nice quality to shadows, and of course darken reds. It looks lovely with portraits.

Do you develop the film yourself? The B&W service through retailers usually results in photos without as much contrast as anybody likes. Look at the negatives and the prints. Are the "black" areas really clear on the negative? If it's clear on the negative and not quite black on the print, then the problem is with the print. If that's so, then just take your best stuff to a pro lab to have it printed.

-- Brian C. Miller (a-bcmill@exchange.microsoft.com), July 06, 1998.

I'll second the recommendation for the Adams books.

The Zone system is one way of tying together the variables of exposure, development and printing, in order to translate the tones of the subject, via tones on the negative, to tones on the print. Yes, it takes a bit of getting into, but it's well worth it.

-- Alan Gibson (gibson.al@mail.dec.com), July 06, 1998.

Zone System

Just to add a practical point: Zone System can be FULLY implemented only on INDIVIDUAL prints - it is about planning in advance all stages of the print strting with light and exposure ending with drying the print. You can't fully imlement it on a roll of 36 exposures each taken it different conditions.

Fully implementing the Zone system means altering development of each shot according to scene conditions - can't be really done with 35 or 120 film.

BUT - it is wize to lern it and understand it since it combines all aspects of B&W photography technique. Lern selectively and wat is most important experiment alot.

-- Ze'ev Kantor (zeevk@netvision.net.il), July 11, 1998.

Response to Zone System

The Zone system is still good for 120 film. Try different filters, brackets, and ten shots are done for one scene. Ansel's book, "The Negative," has a form in it for 120 film. That guy kept detailed records of what he did.

Standard 35mm, or half-frame (72 shots!), not so great. Of course, you can buy the Ilford 135-10 rolls or just load them yourself.

-- Brian C. Miller (a-bcmill@exchange.microsoft.com), July 13, 1998.

The Zone System is really nothing more that the work of several photographers to apply the basic physical properties of film and chemistry to a personal way of working.

There is no getting away from the physical and chemical side of photography, that's what makes it work. It is possible to adopt a system that takes those things into account as you pursue your photographic endeavors.

Ansel Adams' Basic Photo series, Fred Picker's Zone VI Workshop, and others are excellent sources to study. There are many others. There is also a Web Site that introduces the Zone System in easy to understand terms. I dont remember its address but a search ought to turn it up.

Good Luck.

-- Tony Brent (ajbrent@mich.com), September 12, 1998.

"Zone System for a beginner" is a contradiction in terms. But a great many advanced photographers get superb results without it. Weston, for example, never used the Zone System. Many people will tell you that to do fine photgraphy you HAVE to use the Zone System. This is nonsense, especially with today's materials. (Bear in mind that when AA was shooting, there were no really fine MC papers. Now there are.) So all it will do for you at this point is confuse the hell out of you and detract from your joy of taking pictures. Why don't you simply try a good compensating developer for your Tri-X 35mm, such as Rodinal 1:100. (I develop Tri-x for 9 minutes in Rodinal 1:100 @ 75 F) This will eliminate the "soot and chalk" you seem to be getting now. See my website at http://www.ravenvision.com/rvapeter.htm for dozens of photos, many taken with 8x10, none with the Zone System. Then judge for yourself if you need the Zone System.

-- Peter Hughes (leonine@redshift.com), September 20, 1998.

Try a search for a book titled "The Zone system for 35mm Photography", or some variation of those words.

I read it (again) recently and it really boils down the zone system for someone who isn't using a view camera. It's time worthwhile spending.

I used to shoot pretty decent B&W film a long time ago when I had a spot metering SLR. After it was stolen and I replaced it with a center weighted SLR, my pictures went down the drain. Years later, and having read about the Zone system, I think I was sort of intuitively using the Zone system by selectively setting exposure with the spot meter SLR. Now, when I get up really close to meter with the center weighted SLR, things are looking up again.

I'd suggest finding the book(s) at a library and reading them as an alternative to a couple decades of trial and error.

-- Jeff Polaski (polaski@acm.org), January 21, 1999.