My question relates to taking black and white photos of snow or when there is a lot of white in the subject such as a bride in her wedding dress. Although I believe I have the correct exposure of the camera and have tried bracketing I find it difficult to get truly white. I recall reading somewhere that you have to make allowances when taking these types of shots any suggestions other then tell the bride to wear black or take my snow shots at night. I develop my own Black & White however I dont beleive the problem is in the developing.

Thanks for your assistance

Jim

-- Jim Wright (jimbo@comcen.com.au), July 19, 1999

Answers

Are you using the internal camera meter, or a handheld meter of any kind?

The reason I ask is that many camera meters are hideously inaccurate. The camera meter is OK when it is pointed at a scene which roughly equates to a grey scale card, but it gets easily fooled when you point it at a scene which is overly dark or bright.

An incident meter measures the light falling on it, and it is not fooled by light or dark scenes. If at all posible, measure the light next to the subject. This is probably what you want to use.

A spot meter is a reflected light meter, but it measures only a tiny fraction of the scene. Spot meters can take a little practice to use quickly. Meter on the highlight, meter on the shadow, and set your camera for the average. The spotmeter has the greatest use in zone system photography.

You can also get by with a small neutral grey card. Just stick it in front of your lens and meter off of it, instead of the scene in front of you.

-- Brian C. Miller (brianm@ioconcepts.com), July 19, 1999.

As mentioned the problem probably lies in the metering of the exposure. Your reflective in-camera meter can be fooled by scenes that are predominantly high(bright) or low(dark) "key". Your camera meter wants to help you set your exposure to %18 reflectivity which, coincidentally, most scenes average. Your camera meter is reading reflected light. The typical scene reflects an average of about %18. In an unusually high/low key scene like snow or a dark barn you can provide the correct information to your camera by using an %18 gray card, as mentioned above. Or I just use the palm of my hand. It reflects about %18 and I always have it with me. Just place the palm of your hand so that the same light falls on it as does the scene in front of your camera and take a reading. It is that easy. Of course, people are constantly asking me why I am taking a picture of my hand.

While I am at it, let me pass along a tip for metering sunsets. First, meter the sunset normally and remember that reading. If shot at the reading you will likely get strong silhouttes with little detail. Then, meter with your hand/fingers blocking the sun and strong reflections (like off water, buildings, etc.). This meter reading will provide detail information. Bracket between the two for a range of effect.

By the way, you say you are doing your own darkroom work. Are you reading your negs? A brides dress and snow are both white (usually) but they also have detail. Can you see the detail in the neg? I suggest a controlled bracketed test to see what is the correct exposure for your film/processing/paper process. Do you have a copy of Fred Picker's Zone System?

-- Rick Stiles (rstiles@ghg.net), July 19, 1999.

Take a reading of the snow or the bride's dress with the in-camera meter--use the spot function if you have it, otherwise make a close-up reading. Then open up 1-1/2 or two stops.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), July 20, 1999.

Jim, Are you basing your evaluation on the negatives or prints? If it is based on prints, the negatives may be fine, but you need to change your print processing - either exposure, paper contrast or developing.

-- Richard Newman (rnewman@snip.net), July 20, 1999.

Just a short note to say thank you to all of you who offered advice and guidance to my question. I'll go away and see how I go. Thanks again

Jim

-- Jim Wright (jimbo@comcen.com.au), July 22, 1999.

Just wish to add a few things here. First, as was mentioned above, snow and/or white dress contain texture and should be printed as such. But the comment that the average scene reads at 18 % is a mistake. The only information that your meter can give you is what exposure is required to render that area of the scene middle grey (18%) in the print. This assumes that the negative is developed at normal. this also assumes that your are using some type of spot reading. Metering off of a grey card is not a bad idea, but if the shadow areas or highlight areas fall more than two stops beyond that reading , then they could be lost. Or require additional work in the printing. Second - is that a hand does not reproduce at 18% grey in a print. The rule of thumb - and it is only a rule of thumb - is that white skin "in the sun"should reproduce at one stop brighter that 18% grey. A simple method of exposure is to read out of the shadow area that you wish to maintain texture and close down two stops from that reading. That is your exposure for the scene. Then read out of the highlight area that you wish to hold texture. Compare the two readings. ( the orignal from the shadow and the orignal from the highlights) What ever the difference is from 5 , you add or subtract that much in the development of the film. eg. - is the shadow is F 5.6 and highlight is F 11 - thats three stops and the difference is two stops. Add two stops of development to create 5. If the shadow is F /4 and the highlight is F / 22 - thats six stops - subtract one stop in development to create 5. Third - an incedent meter only tells you what reading you would have gotten if you had taken a spot reading off a grey card.

-- jim megargee (jim@mvlabs.com), July 29, 1999.

I agree to jim, expose foe highlights, print for shadows pulling the film will help in high contrast situations but I don't know if pushing! thanx shreepad

-- shreepad (shreepadjoglekar@usa.net), August 19, 1999.

Excuse me. That should read "expose for the shadows and develope for the highlights". A wedding dress should be 2 2/3s stops brighter than 18% or mid tone. The dark shadows within the scene should read 2 stops darker than midtone. The full range within the scene, from deep shadows to bright detailed highlights, should be no more than 4 or 5 stops difference depending on your film/exposure/development sceme and the paper/enlarger/developer in your system. It all boils down to calibrating your system. Bracketing is not an option if you really want to know your materials. Bracketing is the lazy mans way. Do some simple calibration and, except for chromes, never bracket for correct exposure again. And the caucasion skin is one stop lighter than mid tone. James

-- james (james_mickelson@hotmail.com), August 21, 1999.