Do your folks tell you how to run your life? Do you have one annoying friend who is always pointing out what you're doing wrong? An older sibling, an aunt, a teacher, a boss?

I have a few acquaintances who do this in a harmless way. One of the secretaries in my office does it now and then, but she also asks me for advice, plus she's funny about it, so it doesn't bother me.

Generally, though, people who are constantly spouting advice go on my "avoid them" list. How about you?

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

Answers

Right on, Beth!

I've been lucky enough online that mostly I just get encouraging messages but once in a while I get one from this particular woman who thinks she knows what I should feel. I delete her email.

I get most annoyed with my friends and family members who think *I* have some control over Dave to make him do what I want. And if they ask me one more f-ing time when we're getting married I'm going to go postal on them.

I think you're got the right attitude about this advice stuff, and I don't think you're a bitch.

Colleen

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

I am so with you on this one, Beth!

In fact, all of the females in my family (including me) love to dole out advice, and hate to listen to it.

The advice thing is the major reason why I took down most of the e-mail links on my page. It's absolutely ludicrous for anyone to think that on the basis of reading my diary that they are qualified to offer me advice about anything. But people do. A lot of people.

I either ignore them, or write them something nasty, depending on my mood and the level of audacity involved.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

Wow, I'm glad I didn't e-mail you yesterday, Beth. hehehe

I'm having a hard time with this entry, because it kind of strikes a nerve with who I am. I don't really see myself as an intentional busy body... but I get paid to give people unsolicited advice, being in the social work profession.

My clients realize that it's my job, and I realize that despite the mentoring and counseling I do for them, they are still going to do whatever they feel is right. I'm there to give them options (not solutions, but problem-solving ideas. Doesn't it sound much better that way?) they may not have thought of before.

But in my non-paid life? heh. I strive to be helpful rather than controlling. I would like to think that I'm the kind of person who is not seen as a butt-in but an ideas generator. Yikes. Hey, if you know me in real life, tell me what kind of person you think I am.

I'm probably more of a butt-in though, because my mom does it to me all the time. Yeah, thanks mom. My dad is an ideas generator, so I'm hoping I got his gene.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

Heh. Lizzie trained me well. I was scared to even write a "hello I like your journal" letter for months lest my fave journalers would have a fit and fold up shop... let alone write advice letters. ;-)

My mother offers advice in a very manipulative way. She asks what she thinks are subtle questions which are actually about as subtle as a chainsaw.

I don't generally offer journalers I read advice although sometimes I am moved by their feelings and really really want to. I admit I have succumbed now and then. Recently I wrote to Lynda, who did the kind thing and ignored me. I think I have a butt-in gene inherited from my mother, too.

The thing is, my best friend and I have discussed our issues together in deep detail for years,(more so twenty years ago than today...) and often have found insight from what the other person has thought about that same issue so I am used to dissecting feelings with other people and don't feel offended by offers of advice or suggestions from readers. I generally don't find them very useful or helpful (as you said so well, Beth, it is usually something you've already thought about and discarded for good reasons they don't know about) but they don't upset me or make me irritable.

That could change if someone were to tell me to ditch my husband or cane my stepkid or something, but generally I don't get much more than harmless (and potentially interesting) migraine or travel advice.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

I Loathe being told "What you should do is this", it just pushes all sorts of buttons for me, so I try like hell not to do that to anyone else.

Having said that, I still think hearing other people's experience may prove useful, whether in an idea I wouldn't have thought of, or as a cautionary tale.

I try to put what I say as "Here's what worked for me" rather than "Here's what you should do"

Amanda

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

This is probably splitting hairs on my part, but I really think "this is what worked for me" is very different than "boy, he sounds like a jerk, you should dump him." One is sharing an experience; the other is being a pain in the neck.

Stasi, I also work in a profession where I'm paid to give advice. Even then, I really NEVER say "this is what you should do." I say, "Here are your options, here are your choices, here is the criteria you need for this decision ... now what do you want to do?" I don't tell people what I think they should do unless they ask me directly (and even then it's couched in all kinds of "you have to make your own decision" language).

Man, if I ever sat down to tell my friends, family, and acquaintances what I really thought they should be doing with their lives, it would take forever. ;-)

Oh, and Sam, this doesn't apply to you. You're my little brother and I can boss you around as much as I want. And I still think you need a cat.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

I am dealing with this situation a LITTLE bit right now, since I'm pregnant. Isn't that always the way?

I have this friend who is, I *know*, a great source of advice. However, I'm in a REALLY weird space - I don't *want* ANY advice from ANYONE. I've been pretty lucky - no one has really said, tihs is what you should do, this is what I did (except this 21 year old at work, who I basically told to fuck off=), and I think I can attribute that to me hermitting myself from other people.

But this friend, whenever I speak to her, is SO quick to mention "I have SO much advice, and I'm being so good about not saying anything...", how do you respond to that? The way *I'VE* been responding to it is to just smile, chuckle a lil' and think in my head, "Yes, you ARE being good, continue to be, and we won't have ANY problems." (= The fact that I don't see her but once a week or every two weeks helps too.

And for MY busy-body'ness? I am NOT in a profession of giving advice, but for some reason I CONSTANTLY have people coming to me and "venting." The thing *I* do is to ask them questions that it doesn't SEEM like they've thought of. I never tell them "You aren't thinking about this" or "You haven't said you've done this." I generally ask it in a "concerned friend" kind of way. I can't think of a good example right now, but it tends to work out fairly well, in my ever so humble opinion.

And Stasi! You are NOT a busy-body. Stasi's is an awesome friend. She listens well and will be there to help if you need it. At least, those are my memories of my experience with her. (=

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

I don't give unsolicited advice, and I rarely get any either.

I have enough problems of my own to deal with without spending mental energy thinking about what other people might be doing to solve theirs that they don't appear to be doing, especially people I've never met, don't care if I ever do meet (which is the case with most online acquaintances), and who have not asked me for advice.

On the rare occasions when someone does offer me the "you should do this about that" kind of usolicited advice, however, I don't usually pitch a hissy fit about it. Once again, not worth the energy expenditure.

for me, life is too short to spend precious time angry at people, who, for the most part, do not mean me any harm, and whose opinion of me is something I can care about or not care about to whatever degree I choose.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

Jeeziz, Beth, uh...I hope I wasn't like, uh, out of line when you were moving and I begged you not to throw out your gramophone records...uh, I mean, I guess I just have gramophone record issues but I guess I probably shouldn't have, uh, you know, overstepped my boundaries there or, uh...something like that.

Seriously, though, I've always been amazed at the responses you get from your readers, the advice and the occasionally shrill haranguing. Your experience was one of the reasons why I decided to enforce a "no personal disclosure beyond the vaguest circumstance" rule when I started my journal.

What can I say? Keep telling them to fuck off, I guess. I wonder who else has the same problems with the occasional reader? I suppose it could be a side-effect of having a larger readership. I wonder if Kymm or Pamie or Lucy has these problems? I know I sure don't.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

I should clarify: it hardly ever happens to me anymore. Being a well-known bitch has its benefits, I guess.

The one area where I still get advice is puppy training, and I don't mind that AT ALL. I figure the whole theme of my journal lately has been a big solicitation for dog advice; I welcome any and all advice on the subject of dogs.

I do think one reason I'm getting less advisory feedback is this forum -- you will note that the questions, with rare and deliberate exceptions, all focus back on the reader: what is YOUR experience? what do YOU like about x, y, or z? Frankly, that's more interesting than discussing my problems with everyone.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

We get a lot of pregnancy advice, including a few very histrionic screeds concerning circumcision. I made a joke that a few people didn't think was one bit funny, and they all let me know pretty quickly. There is apparently a serious need for some lightening up out there.

Most of the advice I get from readers is actually pretty good, though, so I usually don't mind. And the ones that piss me off inspire good writing, so I guess it's a win/win situation...

-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999

I've noticed your irritation with unsolicited advice, on more than one occasion. I've recently begun to see a pattern people exhibit is preaching values that run counter to their behavior. Christ represents love of one's enemies, as well as one's self, yet the most powerful hate organizations claim to be Christian. Lao Tzu and Confucius and the Buddha represent leadership by example, with minimal regulation, yet the most powerful Communist government is Chinese. (Of course, when I say that I've recently begun to see such a pattern, this also includes my own behavior, but I try to save as much self-incriminating for material for my own journal as possible.) When people give unsolicited advice, I usually treat it as part of that person's learning process. If someone sees the advice they give from a different point of view from which it is received, I'm not going to expend too much effort to get upset for the difference with which they see things.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 1999

Y'all are hens.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 1999

I do give unsolicited advice... I try not to say "you do this", but I do say "well, maybe you could try this?" or "maybe this is why he did that?". If they really seem to be overlooking a possibility that might make them feel a lot better, I will try to point it out. But I try not to make them think the way they are looking at it is wrong, rather that they might not be seeing all that is there.

I don't think I need to tell you that this only applies to people I know, and if I don't know you pretty well I won't give you any advice unless you are asking.

I hate being told what to do, so I try not to do it to anyone else unless I need to.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 1999

oh, lots of people. my boyfriend. my mother. my friends. everyone. sometimes it drives me nuts, but mostly i'm happy.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 1999

Hands down, the worst offender in this department, is my father. And boy do I ever have _issues_ with this fact. Mostly because it makes me feel as if fundamentally, my dad believes that I can't take care of myself, or make intelligent decisions on my own.

Even when I tell him -- I don't want to talk about xyz right now, I'd rather not discuss this, he barrels on through anyway, saying things like "just shush and listen -- this is for your own good."

This weekend I had to leave the room once, to keep from blowing up in his face. I have a mantra I repeat to myself on parental visits when Dad gets this way, to keep myself calm.

Sometimes it works better than others.

As for email advice -- I rarely get any that is unsolicited. Usually it comes from friends or buddies or "pen pals" and I've asked a direct question to get other people's perspectives to shed some light on my own situation.

As for giving it -- I try to avoid that unless a direct question has been asked. I prefer to simply share experiences and make mild suggestions in terms of personal action. Meaning, not "You should dump xyz" but more like "perhaps taking a walk and going away to think about it by yourself might help clear things up "

My mom is very good at saying supportive thigns without giving unwanted directives.

And I think that's the real difference -- most of the time unsolicited advice is not actually advice at all, but a series of ORDERS. True advice, is a suggestion, or piece of insight, that even if it doesn't help, at least makes you think.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 1999

Hands down, the worst offender in this department, is my father. And boy do I ever have _issues_ with this fact. Mostly because it makes me feel as if fundamentally, my dad believes that I can't take care of myself, or make intelligent decisions on my own.

Even when I tell him -- I don't want to talk about xyz right now, I'd rather not discuss this, he barrels on through anyway, saying things like "just shush and listen -- this is for your own good."

This weekend I had to leave the room once, to keep from blowing up in his face. I have a mantra I repeat to myself on parental visits when Dad gets this way, to keep myself calm.

Sometimes it works better than others.

As for email advice -- I rarely get any that is unsolicited. Usually it comes from friends or buddies or "pen pals" and I've asked a direct question to get other people's perspectives to shed some light on my own situation.

As for giving it -- I try to avoid that unless a direct question has been asked. I prefer to simply share experiences and make mild suggestions in terms of personal action. Meaning, not "You should dump xyz" but more like "perhaps taking a walk and going away to think about it by yourself might help clear things up "

My mom is very good at saying supportive thigns without giving unwanted directives.

And I think that's the real difference -- most of the time unsolicited advice is not actually advice at all, but a series of ORDERS. True advice, is a suggestion, or piece of insight, that even if it doesn't help, at least makes you think, IMHO.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 1999

Damn. I honestly did not mean to submit that twice. Sorry about that Beth.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 1999

I give a great deal of unsolicited advice, but it is never taken seriously. Someone tells me, "I am so mad at Mr. X!" and I tell them, "You should go punch Mr. X in the head." They say, "I am lusting after Item Y at Store L!" and I say, "Burst into Store L, guns a-blazing, and run off with Item Y."

I think perhaps I am a frustrating person to talk to.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 1999

I think that goes without saying, Mr. Kipper. (And besides, the proper response to "I want item X" is "Ah! I shall now go and purchase X for you!", of course.)

-- Anonymous, September 13, 1999

Beth I am behind you 100% in this. I detest unsolicited advice from people who actually know me - getting it from relative strangers would be pure hell.

My mother used to be very controlling and we spent years battling over things. As she's aged she has gotten looser and more considerate of my feelings, and now never offers advice unless I ask for it.

One of the women I work with used to give me a lot of advise when we shared an office, so much so that I started calling her "The Oatmeal Lady" behind her back, because she was always trying to talk me into having some of her oatmeal. Weird, huh? Some time after that we each boght cars and she was right there with a lot of opinions about what I should be buying (she couldn't believe I wanted a small car, for instance.) However now we don't share an office and she barely has anything to say to me any more.

My mother in law is big on advice, but delivered in that passive agressive style. Luckily my husband understnads her perfectly and finds her as ridiculous as I do. Quotes such as "You people ARE color coordinating, I hope!" become fodder for mirth.

I'm in an online women's group and while I like everyone, some of them can be such a fucking bunch of fussing hens. "You're not going to drive all that way without a car phone are you??" "Be sure to wear your sunscreen on that vacation!" "We don't put our phone number on our answering machine message - that's very unsafe! I'm worried about you!" Usually I can defuse this by humorously saying "Hey, I have a mom who tells me this stuff, okay?" but sometimes I have to resort to repeating my stance over and over. "That's interesting, but I don't want a cell phone. No, really. I don't want one."

-- Anonymous, September 13, 1999

My parents do. My mom has been the worst offender, but I think it's what you said about the respect thing. I've gotten old enough and been responsible enough for her to trust me finally. She no longer advises, but rather asks how I'm doing.

Diabetic advice. Christ, if I haven't heard every bit of advice and anecdote there is...I went to my prenatal appointment last week and explained to the nurse that I have to eat a particular way or my sugars go straight to shit and it's something my nutritionist worked with me to develop. I exercise at least once a day and usually more, so if I eat a little too much fat or my sugars run a little high, I burn it off fast. Without really listening to me and without looking at my sugar history, she then informed me I was eating too much fat and too many carbos and gave me a sample diet plan that would send me into a coma. Then she saw my sugar chart and said it was pretty good. And then I got on the scale and I've lost 4 lbs. And I'm still waiting for the reply of, "Gee, maybe you are doing ok with what you're doing." All I've wanted to do since is schmack her.

She didn't respect me enough to listen to what I told her. And her subsequent advice was poor. If I don't get better response from the doctor, I'm definitely putting this med practice on the avoid 'em list and going to the medical practice where the nutritionist I've been working with has treated me with respect and my sugars have been pretty darned good.

I hate unsolicited advice. I've probably been guilty of giving it, but I know I've been on the receiving end of that cattle prod a few too many times, too. I generally do not give advice, but rather speak from my experience and let people figure out things for themselves. Afterall, your experience is the only way you can relate to others. Giving advice though, is pretty disrespectful...unless a person is qualified to do so. I don't have a problem taking advice about brain surgery from a brain surgeon, for example.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 1999