Ok, so I stocked up for y2k and now that it is here (problems or not), I am going to use this stuff. I have been grinding my hard red wheat and am finally getting it about right as far as fineness of the flour goes. I have been baking one loaf a day in the bread machine and have yet to get a loaf to rise. The flavor is great, very dense and about 4 inches high. It makes a wonderful dough ball when kneading, but then nothing happens during the rising cycle. I have been using vital wheat gluten and have increased the yeast but baked another brick again last evening.

Here is the recipe I have been using: 2 cups fresh ground wheat flour 2 tsp yeast 2 tbsp vital wheat gluten 1 1/2 tbsp sugar 3/4 tsp salt 1 egg 2 tbsp butter 1/2 cup milk

I chose a recipe with milk and egg because I wanted a loaf that would be moist and not dry out too fast. Any suggestions for changes would be greatly appreciated. I would prefer not to have to add white flour to the recipe in order to get it to rise.

Thanks for any assistance. CC

-- CC (car-col@usa.net), January 23, 2000

Answers

Back in the 70s when we thought the world was coming to an end, but did not, I used my supply of red wheat for chicken feed and a cover crop for my garden. Cranking the old Korona grain mill lost it's appeal. Even with "Bread Maker Flour" my wife (sometimes) turns out loaves we could use for door-stops, go figure.

-- Mudlover (redgate@echoweb.net), January 23, 2000.

I'm awfully good at making doorstops....Does your bread machine have a whole wheat setting? If you want to bake it in your oven, can you set your machine for dough only? Or if you make it all by hand, let the dough mass rise once, punch it down, let it rise again, punch it down and shape it, let it rise again, bake. When in doubt, I always add more yeast. Are you willing to use store-bought flour at all? If so, use half or less of your home ground flour and the rest store bought flour. Then keep cutting the store flour back until you get a loaf you can live with.

Maybe you should strive for historical accuracy. You may have heard that a man would work all day for a loaf of bread? Well that wasn't a doorstop loaf of bread, it was the whole door. I've read various weights for that loaf of bread, 8 and 13 pounds come to mind. That was whole wheat, even whole earth (who knows what was in it-bugs, grit, adulterants), bread. Feed the family. If you manage to get away with that, let me know what you told everybody, ok?

Make sure everything is room temp or better, eggs, milk, even the dough container from the bread machine. I really can't tell you more since I've had my machine a couple of years now and consider myself lucky if the bread makes it more than half way up. I've only had one loaf that rose all the way and it kept going. Had a flat topped mushroom when I was done. I've tried all bread flour, adding gluten, using mixes, just doesn't work. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), January 23, 2000.

I don't have a bread machine, so I may be totally off base here but when I make bread, the rising time for my home ground whole wheat bread is considerably longer. Does the bread machine operate on timing the rising.... or ? Maybe it's not getting enough time to rise. I usually have one rising, punch down, another rising, punch down, put in pans and then rise and bake.

Or, and I'm sure you have already done this...but have you proofed your yeast to make sure that it's really effective?

Maybe try hand baking some bread using the same recipe so you can start making comparisons?

Just my $.02...

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), January 23, 2000.

CC, Sounds like you may have too much liquid in your recipe. Try using dry milk and maybe go with one egg. The one I use that seems to work out ok is this (using a Zojirushi, your machine may be different in size) 3T dry milk, 1/3c honey, 1 1/3c water(warm), 2T oil or butter (room temp), 1 1/2t salt (careful on this, could bring your bread down if too much) 3C Whole wheat flour, 1/2c unbleached white flour (gotta use some), 1/3C cornmeal, 2T gluten and 1T yeast. See is this works, I've got other recipes that I use also, but this one's my fav. Using honey instead of sugar will moisten up bread. Good Luck!! Patrice

-- Patrice Bertke (herbalgroup@skybest.com), January 23, 2000.

Can't help you with your bricks, per se, my luck with whole wheat yeast bread baking is in a close running with yours However, you can make some great Boston Brown Bread with your whole wheat (yes, I too stored about 150 pounds) BBB is steamed, not baked, uses baking soda, not yeast. I've also made a non yeast wheat loaf in the oven....rose nicely, was light and fluffy, but a bit dry. Anyway, if you need a recipe for BBB let me know. Sue

-- Sue Landress (Sulandherb@aol.com), January 23, 2000.

I too had problems with baking bricks in the bread machine, but now use my Dad's recipe. It isn't pure whole wheat, but is 1/3. Here it is and it makes a moist, large, dark loaf: 2C. all purpose or bread flour

-- Janice Bullock (Janice12@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

I too had problems with baking bricks in the bread machine, but now use my Dad's recipe. It isn't pure whole wheat, but is 1/3. Here it is and it makes a moist, large, dark loaf: 2C. all purpose or bread flour 1C. Whole wheat flour 1&1/2 Tbls. sugar 1 c. Applesauce(if thick, add 1/3 c. water+1Tablespoon. If not thick, just add 1/3 c. water) 4Tbls oil 1 level teaspoon (my dad uses a regular spoon, not a measuring spoon) yeast. (I have kept the same bag of yeast in the freezer 3 years, still good)

My father insists you have to disregard the machine's directions and do it this way: first place the all purpose flour in the pan and sprinkle the sugar evenly on top. Then add the applesauce, water and oil. Next evenly spread the whole wheat flour on top, and finally sprinkle the yeast on top. Put in machine and follow directions for whatever baking cycle you want. Works even on a timed cycle, dark or light crust. I don't use the whole wheat setting as I don't have one. The only problem I have is it raises too much sometimes, depending on barametric pressure, i think. Good luck! Jan

-- Janice Bullock (Janice12@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

Me again. Sorry, the recipe looks kinda funky as I had typed it like a real recipe, with the ingredients on each line, and no commas. If you can't figure it out, email me and I will send it back to you. It really is good bread.

-- Janice Bullock (Janice12@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

Here is a simpale hand made recipe for irish bread which works with home ground wheat,1 cup all purpose flour,2 Tablespoons sugar, 1 teaspoon baking powder, 1/2 teaspoon salt, 1 1/2 Tablespoons margarine or butter, 2 cups whole wheat flour, 1/4 cup oats, 1 1/2 cups plain yogurt, 1 or 2 teaspoons milk, 1 teaspoon baking soda, in a bowl mix all purp flour, sugar, baking powder and soda, and salt. cut in margarine[or butter] until mixture forms fine crumbs. stire in wheat flour, and oats. Add yogurt and stir gently. If mixture is to dry add milk 1 teaspoon at time until dough holds together [not sticky] Turn dough on to floured board and knead 5 times. Make a ball on greased cookie sheet[7 inch round] make x on loaf and bake 375 oven for 40 min.This recipe is easy and delicious.

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), January 24, 2000.

We have been baking our own bread for 30 years and thought that we had perfected the art until we started doing the Y2K preparation thing. I was looking for a cheap source of yeast so I contacted a commercial bakery. They sell their yeast in vacuum-packed containers of 1lb each for $5.00/pkg. Compare that to what you pay at the grocery store. The best part of this story is that we couldn't believe the performance of the commercial yeast! It is at least four times as vigorous as the store-brand stuff and will produce whole wheat bread from homeground wheat that is lighter than the stuff we used to bake from bag flour. My experience is that the yeast is the most important ingredient in bread. You can get away with murder (check the list on the side of a loaf of commercial bread)if your yeast is good. Hope this helps, John and Pat

-- John and Pat James (jjames@n-jCenter.com), January 24, 2000.

This recipe is for making by hand with all WW flour. It is fast,easy, and dependable. I have never had success with all WW bread until this recipe. 2 1/4 cups warm water, 2 Tbsp yeast, 2 Tbsp molasses: combine these and set aside to let the yeast proof. Combine 6 cups Whole wheat flour, 6 Tbsp oil or grease, 1 Tbsp salt. When the yeast proofs (puffs up) add it to the dry ingredients. Mix together and knead for about 5 - 10 minutes, put it in an oiled bowl, turn over to oil the top too, and let rise. When doubled in size, punch down. shape into loaves, and put into oiled loaf pans and let rise again. Bake at 350 degrees for 40 minutes. I like to add about half a cup of sunflower seeds.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), January 25, 2000.

Try the whole wheat recipe on the Walton's site. Very good. http://waltonfeed.com/grain/y-rec/wwbread.html

-- Carol (2gkr14@usa.net), January 25, 2000.

CC,

You might find some other suggestions at this site. I am looking for a good sour dough starter and I was up way too late last night going over all of the information on grains and recipes for all types of breads.

County Life Online Plaza

Carol's link:

Walton Feed

-- cinnamon (homesteader145@yahoo.com), January 26, 2000.

I make whole wheat bread both by hand and in a bread machine. I also help other people with problems making their own bread. Most of the time the problem with getting whole wheat bread to be light and fluffy is the amount of liquid. I use instant yeast and when I make bread in the machine I don't even use the whole wheat cycle, I use the shorter white bread cycle and when I make it by hand, I only let it rise once for about 40 minutes. Use whatever amount of liquid the recipe calls for and add only enough flour to get it to pull away from the sides of the machine pan. This is way too wet to knead by hand so when I make it by hand, I use a dough bucket. This advice has worked for several people so I hope it works for you too. When you can get a fluffy loaf of whole wheat bread it makes not care if you ever have white bread again.

-- Kathy Hardin (DavidWH6@juno.com), January 27, 2000.

One other bit of advice. The recipe you gave would make a very small loaf. A 1 1/2# loaf should take at least 3 cups of flour. I use 5 cups of flour in a 2# machine.

-- Kathy Hardin (DavidWH6@juno.com), January 27, 2000.

Add half a cup of cheese to your recipe. Yes, I said cheese :-) It helps with the rising.

-- Jo (jocadasic@powersurfr.com), January 29, 2000.

I have a friend who said her mother used to make very light whole wheat loaves. She thought the trick was to dry the whole wheat kernels in the oven before grinding them. I tried this with some wheat I had stored in a damp basement. It did help. Also, it is important to let some (about half) of the flour soak in the liquid for at least 2 hours before adding the rest of the flour and kneading it to bread dough consistency

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), January 30, 2000.

Thanks to all for your answers. I increased the liquid, switched from sugar to honey and increased the amount of flour. The last 4 loaves have risen well and taste wonderful.

Thanks again for your advice! CC

-- CC (car-col@usa.net), January 30, 2000.