greetings -

I'm looking to buy a portaledge for Yosemite walls. I plan to go with a partner and then learn to solo. My question is: should I focus on a single or double ledge?

I'm not interested in sharing a ledge with my partner, but the area size of the double appeals to me, just so I'll have more room to move around and sort gear. But am thinking in terms of too much "luxury"? If I'm going to solo should I be extra concerned about weight and stick with the single?

All opinions are welcome. Thanks much.

-- jt (jtclimber@aol.com), February 07, 2000

Answers

DONT EVER GET A SINGLE LEDGE Because.... a) if your partner doesnt have his/her own they have to sleep in slings b) if youre soloing the extra space will be very very nice c) 1 double is so much more compact and lighter and 2 singles

Either get a A5 double, or a FISH double. I've heard only bad things about the Pika's. Then the Black Diamond design doesnt look right to me, sure its fast to set up but i dont like how the bed doesnt attatch at the foot and head. I looks to me like it would sag.

Hope I helped Brian

-- Brian (slobri@aol.com), February 09, 2000.

Brian has some excellent points, and I too have a double ledge, but I would not write off a single so quickly. There have been many of nights I wished I had a single ledge, especially when I have to sleep on the inside (the inside of the double still sucks even when you extend the thing with a sling). Plus, it is just more crowded with a partner on a double. With a single, you just have more room to move around and I believe the extra weight and simplicity is worth it. Nevertheless, you have to decide yourself, each has its advantages and disadvantages. I guess in a perfect world you could have both! Have fun and remember to bring the Rum! Ronnie

-- Ronnie Miller (dylan-miller@juno.com), February 10, 2000.

If I were to be sleeping by myself I think I would still go for the single (unless youre really tall). They only weight 2 or 3 pounds more for the ledge and probably another pound or 2 for the fly. Now A5 has it's single ledges costing more than a double so there's another reason to go with the double. And you always have the option of taking a partner who doesnt own a ledge.

-- Brian (slobri@aol.com), February 10, 2000.

oops! I meant to put double in the first sentance, not single.

-- Brian (slobri@aol.com), February 10, 2000.

First of all Brian its total BULLSHIT to say in bold letters "NEVER GET A SINGLE PORTALEDGE"! he said he was planing on soloing so the single is the way to go! The double would be nice but if your smaller like me it is HELL setting up the ledge at a hanging balay so i can't imagin doing that with a double. Also if you do have a partner its very cramped. if you go with the single don't worie about your partner, if he dosn't have his own portaledge then he can hang a hamock under yours. this is just my opinion but i love my single, very comfortable and plenty of room!

Happy climbing Ben

-- Ben (Benbuilds@aol.com), February 11, 2000.

Don't write off the Black Diamond double, if a double ledge is what you want. For an old clutz like me, I found the easy set up to be more then just a sales gimmick. We used it on Zodiac, and I found it to be very comfortable (I'm 6' 1" and 205 lbs.), easy to set up, and did not feel it sagged any more than an A5 double which I have used. The weight is a couple pounds more than the others, but I'm very happy with the BD. Just make sure you con your partner into sleeping on the inside!!

Bob

-- Bob Porter (porterb@mv.lancaster.k12.ca.us), February 11, 2000.

As you said you don't plan on sharing the ledge, i would go with a single as it is much lighter for the approach/descent which is a real killer when you are soloing. Also cheaper. And in a real emergency if you have two ledges (when with a partner) you have a back up in case one blows out. I would personally not use the BD, as it is very heavy.

-- Matt (hothotbunz@yahoo.com), February 12, 2000.

Hey Ben you need to check the facts before you go and just being all stupid like that. No need for those harsh words to Bri... he's the man. If you ever got yourself off the deck a little you would find out that setting up a double solo takes just as much time as setting up a single once you get the hang of it. It sleeps soooo much better than a single and lets face it, not many of us have the money to buy a single and a double so kill two birds with one stone and go for the double. All modern portaledges are great (pika, A5, Fish, BD) for walls in the Valeey to Zion, but for more remote walls such as Alaska to Pakistan go with TNF A5. Jt weight isn't a big factor at all when you are wall climbing. If you and your partner can afford seperate portaledges then go for the double and if you can't go with the double. Confused.. go with the double. Cheers

-- Burt (epiclmber@hotmail.com), February 14, 2000.

First of all Burt i know what i'm talking about! I have a single and love it. Also i'm small so setting up a single takes all the manhandling i have to get it set up. I haven't used a double but looking at the specs it seems very crowded for 2 people. for me (maybe just since i'm small) the single is very roomy. Brian is a cool guy but he dosen't own a portaledge so i can't say he realy has the right to totaly rule out the single and say in bold letter "never buy a single". this is my opinion sorry if you don't like it.

Happy climbing Ben

-- Ben (Benbuilds@aol.com), February 14, 2000.

BEN YOU ARE A DORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHUTUP CLIMB A WALL AND THEN KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT DORK BOY

-- bob (bob@hick.com), February 18, 2000.

F*ck You asshole I've got the right to me opinion so kiss my ASS. I like singles!!

-- Ben (Benbuilds@aol.com), February 19, 2000.

Hey, just wondering who it was that wrote the message below. It was pretty funny.

"BEN YOU ARE A DORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHUTUP CLIMB A WALL AND THEN KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT DORK BOY"

I just was wondering who you are...would you please email me at the adress below.

Thanks.

-- Brian (slobri@aol.com), February 19, 2000.

Ben you've got the right to your own opinions, yet you just rip on Bri for no reason... That ain't cool, so when you grow up and get a justified opinion let us know and we will more than happy to help you out, but please do us all the favor of not comming back to this page until so (watch the lang Hoss) Sorry guys but there is no reason for the lang on the page like that! The one the only epiclimber... Burt

-- Burt (epiclmber@hotmail.com), February 20, 2000.

What makes Brians opinion more important than mine? you can't say age cause we are the sam age. can't say experiance cause i've been climbing off and on for 5 years. Burt your just sticking up for him cause you know him, now thats not very justified is it? BTW he talks like your god.... Your not

Ben

-- Ben (Benbuilds@aol.com), March 03, 2000.

PS i didn't mean to really rip on him i just said that what he said was BULL SHIT

Ben

-- Ben (Benbuilds@aol.com), March 03, 2000.

Dang! I wish I had picked up on this thread when the going was hot and heavy! I was laughing pretty hard, and I think I would have to agree, "DON'T BUY A SINGLE PORTALEDGE!" I've spent 99 nights bivied on El Cap, not counting summit and base bivis. Except for the few rare nights when I slept on a rock ledge, all of these nights were spent on a Fish double. I love it. A double is only slightly more expensive than a single, and only a bit heavier, too. Its extra weight is neglible when compared with the total weight of your wall gear, yet the extra comfort it affords is immeasurable! It also affords you the flexibility of inviting a partner along who doesn't own a ledge. I've soloed El Cap twice and I couldn't imagine NOT using a double! I can't believe anyone would want to buy a single! You might be interested in knowing that I leave my ledge set up for the whole wall - it provides the ultimate in belaying comfort, and I don't waste time and energy packing and unpacking the thing every day. To haul it while it's set up, you attach it on to the haul line ABOVE your haul load, clipping it in on two corners, and "flying it like a flag". You should also clip in the top of the six straps, too. When the wind blows, there is NO effect on the ledge. (Think about it........) The ledge can even pass over slight bulges with no problem. Chongo describes how to do it in his book. Once everyone figures out how bitchin' it is to "flag your ledge", you'll see portaledges flying all over El Cap. Like many of Chongo's ideas, once you try it, you wonder why you haven't been doing it all along. Perhaps you've seen my ledge up on El Cap - Wee-Wee the Big Wall Crab is painted on the bottom. There's a good picture of my ledge here on Tuan's page - go to Jolly Roger, click on the link to the photo essay, and look at the picture in the bottom right corner. That's my ledge next to Jon, who is enjoying our solar powered shower. For the record, when we climbed Jolly Roger, we EACH took a DOUBLE ledge. Our "Wee-Wee flag" flew for the duration of the climb! I mean, c'mon - any FOOL can be uncomfortable, eh? Cheers, Pete

-- "Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok (pzabrok@netcom.ca), April 19, 2000.

Hey Pete, Sorry you missed the action! Just get sick of people not even old enough to by smokes talkng like they've been at sea for a year! I support the Chongo Nation!!!! I was 14 years old when I meet Chuck and man did my life turn for the better. I remember sitting under the trip and Chuck introduced his H.R. and we laughed... until my 120 lbs. frame lifted and hauled a 200+ lbs load with ease... man life without that 2-1... sucks to even think about it! Do not be fooled by imations, the 2/1 that you bulid on the rope (R&I#??) sucks. With the hauling Ratchet you can pass knots, you can lower and do a whole lot of stuff a 100 times easier. Well later Pete, I'l be in the Valley in a week or so, gota get lil Bri's feet wet. Congrats on J.R. nice. "He may not be a Priest, but he can save your sole" Fly'n Brian's Resloes (702)262-0769 Call for price info for all types of climbing, approach, etc. Burt

-- Burt (epiclmber@hotmail.com), April 20, 2000.

Right on! Vive le Chongo Nation! I think the "2:1" hauling system you refer to that was in the climbing mag was the one published in Climbing about a year and a bit ago, was described as a "2:1", but was in fact a 3:1 as I pointed out to Duane Raleigh by email. He said he'd print the correction, but it didn't happen. Anyway, you rightly point out that you can't pass a knot with it, and in most cases, 3:1 is overkill. Getting the 2:1 working really well takes a fair bit of fiddle-farting, as to how you adjust the lengths, how you orient the pulleys, and so on. It's not really that easy to figure out! You definitely need Chuck's book to understand how to build it the right way. Then you need to get on a wall and figure out how to make it work. But when it works right, it works AMAZINGLY. What an invention! Chongo's pretty smart, that's for sure. Heard he spent the weekend in jail - probably not the first nor the last time.... Check out our pics from Jolly Roger - there's a link here on Tuan's page right after Nate's trip report. I'm arriving in the Valley Thursday May 18 and heading up something, shall we say, "nautically related" (and damn hard!) on El Cap. Look me up for a beer, eh? Cheers, Pete

-- Pass the Pitons Pete (pzabrok@netcom.ca), May 07, 2000.

Pete-

If you wanna swing by and pick me up you've got sherpa support. The approach to that "nautically inclined" route isnt too bad. Way easier than the Zodiac Talus. Did you let Wee-Wee pick this route for ya? Chuck is way smart. Just saw him a little over a week ago. He just wrote his new book "The Speed of Gravity" it had some theory about gravity when broken down to its smallest unit or something like that, i was pretty tired when we talked with him. Then I guess a week later some top noch scientist proved Chuck's theory. And for the always anticipated Sea of Dreams update the park service told him that if he wasnt climbing by the 1st of this month he would have to remove his stuff. Since you said that he spent the weekend in jail I guess he's not climbing.

-- Brian (slobri@aol.com), May 07, 2000.

Hi There I have never climbed a wall but plan to in about 3 months so I purchased a BD Double ledge and fly. I tested it out the other night, it goes up real quick and I slept like a log. What more could you want? I like the idea of painting a flag under it so look for the New Zealand flag on El Cap during May. On the issue of single or double ledges I think the double is better value. If you look at the weights for both single and double ledges it's nothing compared to the haul bag.

-- Steven Riddell (admin@climb.co.nz), January 11, 2001.

Wow, I haven't seen so much rancor since the old days of sneering at the hangdogs...so why not add a word or two. Having used both singles and doubles, I think it really gets down to who you are doing the walls with. If you go with your best bro, try the double, but if you pick up some meat in Camp 4 just to help with the hauling, consider the single. Also, I don't sleep really soundly for the first few nights on a wall, so if you have some dork next door with bad breath/stinking feet, or some other foul habits the single can be better. When using the double, I had to watch out for spilled drinks and fruit cocktail because my weird partners spastic movements. After doing the Salathe with this chick that totally flopped over in her sleep (which freaked me out, thought we got hit by rockfall) I personally would never buy another double. I find that having that peace and stability after a day of rotton expando is really necessary. Luck to you on your next wall, Gene.

-- gene west (genewestrascal@aol.com), February 05, 2001.

Man, what a bunch of ranting. Everyone needs to relax, and not throw out a shoulder trying to pat yourselves on the back. Jesus! The man was just looking for some opinions, and as the old saying goes "opinions are like a##holes, everyones got one!". So here is my hole, er I mean, opinion. Doubles rock the world in comfort, I am a giant 6'5, 220 so doubles suit me well because I always sleep alone in mine(although a bit short, but I sleep diagonally). Singles rule if you are a homophobe and worried about spooning a partner, or get freaked by sudden movement in the night. Remeber, they didn't have ANY of that shit back in the day, so either one is going to be delux. Besides, climbing walls is NOT about being luxurious, and always comfy. Sack up and get spartan! Either way you'll get a good nights sleep, cause usually you're so tired you could sleep in the pig.

-- Tea (gunslingerillustration@hotmail.com), February 07, 2001.

Single.

-- wayne (climbharder@hotmail.com), May 08, 2001.