For a long time, I kept using semi-matte FB paper and didn't have much of a problem to get flat dry prints. I would just hang them back to back in pairs until most of the surface water had gone, then I would put them between a couple of sheets of Ilford's blotting paper. I changed that a couple of times over the next few hours and on the next day (short intervals at first, and longer intervals when they were almost dry). This resulted in really flat prints. The first drawback is that the first few lots of blotting paper--those that got really wet-- became pretty undulated and had to be exchanged uncomfortably often, which does cost a lot of money. The second drawback is that the prints need attention within the first few hours after printing, as you have to change the blotters quite frequently. (I tried hanging the prints a little longer, so that they were almost dry from the start (of the drying). I didn't find an optimal way yet: Either the prints were still too wet, or the edges too dry, meaning they got undulated.) Additional problems are:

1) Nowadays I can only print in the late evening, and have to go to the office early next morning. So I need a method that works either fast or unattended, and

2) The blotters seem to work awfully with glossy paper. Very often, even with brand new sheets of blotting paper, some fluff coming off from the blotting paper will stick to the print surface. (It can be removed--by washing and gentle rubbing, which means starting over with the drying process.)

I thought of buying a hotbed drier, but I read in a couple of books (incl. AA, Rudman ...) that these driers easily become a source of contamination. So, after this long prologue, here comes my question to your collective expertise:

What are your experiences and ideas? Any input welcome.

-- Thomas Wollstein (thomas_wollstein@web.de), February 08, 2000

Answers

Have you tried foregoing the blotters and simply letting them hang until completely dry and then flattening them using weights?

-- Christopher Hargens (ldmr@cruzio.com), February 09, 2000.

Greetings,

Here are a few things that I've tried with some success. Let the prints almost completely air dry - you want the emulsion to be completely dry, but the paper to be slightly damp - that's the tricky part. Then place the print under a heavy weight and it should dry fairly flat. Alternately, if you have a dry mount press, allow the print to air dry as above, then place it in the mounting press and complete the final drying there. Either way it's still a bit of a pain.

One last thought. Though I have no experience using one, I have heard the same thing you mentioned about driers getting contaminated. If that is a concern, then I would think blotting paper gets even more contaminated.

Regards,

-- Pete Caluori (pcaluori@hotmail.com), February 09, 2000.

My limited experience with fiber is that by laying them face down on drying screens and then when almost dry pressing them under some books seems to work ok at least for 8x10 and smaller. I'm also experimenting with various ways to "steam iron " out the prints although I also have room humidity problems which make it difficult.

-- bill zelinski (willy226@yahoo.com), February 09, 2000.

Thanks for your input.

Indeed, I did try drying the prints by letting them hang (in pairs, back to back) and then flattening them under weighted boards for a couple of days. They were then sufficiently flat for mounting on stiff cardboard, behind a passepartout, but the edges were curled too much to allow for mounting them in an album because the pages were not suffiently stiff.

I also tried to let them hang until the emulsion side felt dry, and to let them dry under load and between blotters. But even then I had the fluff sticking to the surface after the drying.

The suggestion with the steam iron sounds interesting! I will try that and report.

I am still developing one idea I had yesterday. I will report on that when I tried it, too.

Again: Thanks to y'all.

-- Thomas Wollstein (thomas_wollstein@web.de), February 10, 2000.

Are you by any chance fixing and washing your prints for too long? Too much washing also expands the fiber in the paper working from the edges inward. Also how dry is it in your drying area? Are you drying your prints too fast? I had a problem a long time ago with 16x20 FB having wavy edges after drying. I got a test kit for residual fixer and found after washing with hypo clear and water for 20 mins my prints were clear of fix and I have never had a problem with wavy edges since. James

-- Mr.Lumberjack (james_mickelson@hotmail.com), February 11, 2000.

Hello Thomas!

First I used to let them hang over night and used heavy books, but just like you experience the edges were anything but flat. These days I put them from the wash on a heat dryer, an old east german unit, very cheap with manuell temperature control, with emulsion side against the cloth and dry them at around 500C. As the dryer surface is curved, so water can run off, the prints are curved but books will do the rest. I use linen (dt. Leinen) bound books as weights. Contamination? Cloth can be washed at 60-900C. BTW, I'm using the Agfa washing technique, wash in floating water, wash in soda-solution, wash in floating water. Total time 1 hour.

Compliments,

Wolfram

-- Wolfram Kollig (kollig@ipfdd.de), February 11, 2000.

The ironing method Bill mentioned is what I have used over the last year. At the darkroom I use I have to leave the prints to dry over night so they are sometimes really curled when I fetch them. What I do is that I heat up the clothes iron (to a medium heat) spray the backside of the print with a flowersprayer, let the moist be soaked into the paper for a while, and then add just a little more sprayed water before I iron. Immediately after ironing I put the print between lint free paper and put heavy books above it. This works if the print wasn't mechanically damaged during processing or washing. A print that has been very bent during washing will remain damaged, no matter how much ironing is done to it.

-- Peter Olsson (peter.olsson@lulebo.se), February 11, 2000.

James, or Mr. Lumberjack

No, I don't think I'm washing too long. I do practically the same thing as you do: Hypo killer for some 3 to 5 minutes, then 20 minutes of washing in a Nova washer. Fixing, too, is pretty short: I use two baths for 30 s each, the second one being fresh and replacing the first one when it has had enough.

Peter

Have you ever experienced the problem that a print surface stuck to the cloth on which you are ironing the print?

Wolfram

When reading about contamination from the hotbed drier, I actually wondered whether the cloth could be washed. I think I will reconsider the hotbed drier if the other less expensive methods fail to give me what I want (also in terms of convenience).

-- Thomas Wollstein (thomas_wollstein@web.de), February 11, 2000.

Easy. Buy a "Seal" drymount press. The real purpose of Seal presses isn't dry mounting its flattening. Used presses can be found in Shutterbug for 100-200 bucks. Dry your prints either by hanging them or laying them on screens. It doesn't matter. If they curl it won't matter. Leave them there to dry. Preheat your press for a few minutes, with two sheets of matt board (2 ply is fine) in the press. Place your print in between the matt board for 60 seconds. When you remove the print it will be flat and remain flat. No it won't damage your print. I can flatten an entire session worth of prints in 20 minutes while having a cup of coffee. I replace the matt board occassionally to avoid and potential contamination at a cost of two dollars. Print flattening was a major problem for me until I went with the press...to the point of hating fiber based papers. Since I began using a press I haven't printed a single RC print. My prints are as flat or flatter than unexposed paper. Without any hassel or late night trips into the darkroom to rotate prints or blotter.

-- Peter T. (camerabug1@msn.com), February 11, 2000.

Should have read " I replace the matt board occassionally to avoid ANY potential contamination..."

-- Peter T. (camerabug1@msn.com), February 11, 2000.

No Thomas, I haven't had any print got stuck to the ironing table. I only use double weight or museum weight paper, so it's quite thick. To even out the water (after spraying) I sometimes use a soft sponge. The iron itself gives no steam by the way.

-- Peter Olsson (peter.olsson@lulebo.se), February 14, 2000.

Thanks again to all of you. Your suggestions gave me a lot of ideas for further testing. I will give a comprehensive report on the successes (and failures) later.

-- Thomas Wollstein (thomas_wollstein@web.de), February 15, 2000.

Here is my state-of-the-art Fiber-Base Print Drying and Flattening System, which is sure to make everyone envious:

Fiber-Base Print Drying System: clothesline & clothespins with electric radiator positioned under hanging prints.

Fiber-Base Print Flattening System: old World Atlas found at thrift store.

-- Peter Hughes (leo948@yahoo.com), February 15, 2000.

The dry mount press is what works for me. More money (buy an old Seal, they never seem to break) and another step, but my prints are 2 dimensional (mostly). Good tip on the overwashing Mr. Lumberin' Jack, the Ilford washing sequence totals only 25 minutes, no problem and I start the toning process with dry prints... t

-- tom meyer (twm@mindspring.com), February 23, 2000.