OK, here's my question.

On my website, which this topic is NOT pimping, in fact I am not even giving the URL, that is how not pimping my site this topic is, I have a forum for my journal.

And, a couple of people that hate me in real life have been posting nasty insults there and stuff from time to time. I'm just curious. I know the high-minded thing to do would be to ignore them, but should I just leave the nasty posts there and ignore them, or delete them, or respond to them (I did that today, not sure if I should have) or what?

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2000

Answers

The best way to insure I never speak to you again is to make me feel stupid. Maybe you could try that. Immature, I know, but people don't like feeling stupid.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2000

Hmm, actually maybe that was part of the problem to begin with. My journal entry today was all about how I was marked as a "smart kid" in school and how it made me a freak and caused me no end of social problems (in a nutshell). So maybe it made these particular people who are posting nasty stuff in my forum feel insecure or something.

Or maybe they're just jerks. Sigh.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2000

Not that this sort of thing happens to me, but if it did I'd refuse to acknowledge them. Responding makes it look as if they've bothered you. It'd depend on the situation, though.

Tonight We Sleep In Separate Ditches

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2000

I remember seeing as a small kid Slaughter House 5. I don't remember much of the movie, except for the scene where the prison guards give the guy a women's coat a demoralize him, and instead of toughing out the cold, he went ahead and casually wore the coat, which I thought was the coolest thing in the world. Years later, there was a similar scene in The Untouchables, where someone left a newspaper with an unflattering headline on Eliot Ness's desk. Ness cut out the headline, and tacked it on his bulletin board, which I also thought was the coolest thing in the world.

I remember in the military, my first duty station after tech school, someone made an attempt to rattle me. On my desk was left a flyer for a local martial arts class, with a little kid in a karate uniform. In case you need to hear it, I'm Chinese, and I took the flyer left on my desk as an attempt to put me in my place. It was very emasculating. I didn't want to complain about someone leaving a piece of paper on my desk, so I did the only thing I could think to do. I tacked the flyer up on the board of my cubicle. Before the end of the day, someone came to my desk to take down the flyer, and I didn't have a problem like that for the rest of my stay there.

If someone is being nasty to you, its because you are doing something that they don't like. They will either let you know what it is you are doing that bothers them, or they won't. If they let you know what bothers them, and you decide they are being unfair to you, you can do more of the thing that bothers them. Or, maybe they are right, and you stop doing the thing that bothers them. Or, maybe they're still wrong, but you don't care anyway.

If they don't let you know what's bothering them, then the worst thing you could do to them is to behave as you were doing before. It's not like they've given you a reason to change your behavior, is it?

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

Mike, that is the most useful thing that anyone has ever said to me on this topic, including my own Mom. And that's saying a lot.

I feel all better and stuff. Actually I feel sort of, uh, squishy. OK time for Jan go bed now.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

The absolute worst thing you can do is respond. That is what they want, it makes them feel empowered, and it ensures it will continue.

If the comments bother you, delete them. Things may get worse as they try to fight back, but if you persevere they will give up.

If the comments don't really bother you, the best solution is, of course, to completely ignore them.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

The worst thing you can do is let them walk away thinking that they are some kind of hero. What they want is to find someone easy they can pick on to make them feel that way. Then they'll just acquire a taste for the activity. If they're going to feed off of you, make it as unpleasant for them as possible, or they'll do it again. Demoralize them.

If you delete their posts, how are you ever going to look these people in the eyes again? When they look at you, and if you can't look them in the eyes again, they'll know that you acknowledge their power. When I assisted in rape prevention classes, my instructor could tell who the victims were in the class by who couldn't make eye contact. That's how you let people know that the bad guys won. I recommend that you do whatever it takes for you keep eye contact with people (nothing threatening; just enough to let them know you won't start sobbing if you're cornered). It's what rapists look for.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

When I mention that I assisted in rape prevention classes, and my instructor could tell who the victims were in the class by who couldn't make eye contact, I should also mention that she herself was a victim, and openly discussed this in the class. There's no shame on our part if someone tries to take advantage of us.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

Ignore is definitely the most useful tool in dealing with insults. But since you're in control of the forum, I'd recommend banning their ISPs.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

I think I'm with Mike on this one. If I ban their sites and delete their messages or whatever, 1) they'll probably just find new sites and come back, and 2) they'll feel like they've scored points against me.

If, on the other hand, I acknowledge them in a flip, offhand way, or ignore them entirely, and go on about my journal, *I* am the one who feels triumphant, because their stupid crap didn't bother me.

Incidentally, it is really stupid, and it doesn't bother me too much, I just wasn't sure what the best way to handle it would be. I appreciate the input, believe me.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

Tough situation. I'm sorry that you're in it. Mike has made a LOT of good points. Perhaps, if your forum is the type you can edit, you can create a new area and call it your "special fan" section, and move the posts there. And really, the majority of people who see stuff like that posted in your forum aren't going to think ill of you, but think what assholes those others are.

Unfortunately, ignoring people like that doesn't always work.

A couple of years ago I had an online harassment situation with a particular female. No posts on boards, but email (badly masked to appear anonymous) and mild impersonation of me online. Despite the strong urge to retaliate, I "bit my tongue" (and nearly chewed through it). The situation was distressing enough to me that I contacted both her personal ISP and her university, as she used email accounts from both places for the harassment. I had to resort to this because despite not responding to her, that crap continued for TWO YEARS. So, problems like that don't always just go away on their own.

And, despite disgust from mutual friends (and her HUSBAND) AND 2 reprimands from her school, it took losing regular internet access to stop the harassment.

Good luck to you, and I hope those idiots get back what they dish out threefold.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

On a slightly different tack- I maintain my highschool's unofficial (and biggest) alumni website. It has a message board, and occasionally trouble sparks up there. I only have one rule posted at the top, and that's "Be considerate of others." But sometimes, people just can't let highschool grudges go, and there are the occasional trolls. Posts that are directly attacking others or that are just vulgar ARE yanked by me, usually along with the irate responses from the board regulars. So far, there have been no complaints about my policy in this regard. I don't actually police the board (and don't even visit it daily) but enough of the regulars know to contact me when trouble starts.

On very rare occasions, I've even blocked ISPs, but that can be a pain if the poster is an AOL member, or from somewhere similar that uses random IP addresses or generated blanket IPs. (I unintentionally blocked all of erol's once.)

The one time someone posted a complaint about ME, I left that up, but added a polite response. The poster got enough flames from the regulars. He's not been back.

However, some people just won't behave, so I'm going to be switching from the open post-style board I have now, to UBB which requires creating usernames and passwords. At least it'll be more of a hassle for the snerts to post.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

Deleting their posts is absolutely the best way to respond if you want to demoralize them. It's a move they have no way of countering, except to try post more. They soon learn posting their crap is a waste of time and find something else to do. You have a power they do not. Instead of meeting their fire with fire of your own, you are simply taking away their guns.

How on earth deleting their posts prevents you from looking them in the eye is beyond me. If someone has a gun, should a cop take away that gun if they can, or get in a shootout. Getting into a shootout would be pretty foolish if you can simply take away their gun.

They try to get a rise out of you, you delete the posts, and you are the victor. Fight them and you will never achieve more than a standoff.

It has been said that if someone tries to rape you you should fight back. I'm saying it's much better to just cut off their penis and be done with it. Fighting back is a waste of effort when you have a far more effective means of retaliation at your desposal.

(And I do consider myself somewhat an expert regarding the mind of a troll. ;-)

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

It has been said that if someone tries to rape you you should fight back. I'm saying it's much better to just cut off their penis and be done with it. Fighting back is a waste of effort when you have a far more effective means of retaliation at your desposal.

If a mountain lion should stumble across Big Joe, and Not-so-big Mike, and should Joe and Mike turn their backs to the mountain lion and stick their heads in the sand, the mountain lion may look at both of them, and decide that Not-so-big Mike would be easier to kill and drag back to the lair. In that case, not confronting the mountain lion would be an effective defense... for Big Joe.

Instead, if Joe were to turn his back to the mountain lion, and Mike were to remain facing the mountain lion, and slowly start backing away, the mountain lion may then decide that Mike might make him work for his meal, and it's more certain that the cat will decide that Big Joe isn't so big to feed upon.

I think it's very dangerous to suggest that a woman shouldn't fight back in a life and death situation. You do not want to put the decision to kill you in the predator's hands. If someone pulls a gun on you, he is less likely to kill you there than if you get in his car. You should just run from the car then and there. Just because these things aren't a consideration for a big guy, that doesn't mean the predator is going to treat the big guy and not so big person the same way. That's why I brought the rape analogy to this forum in the first place. How women treat conflict affects how a predator sizes people up. I'm not saying you should pick a fight with everyone whose face you don't like. But whatever it takes to keep eye contact as you cross people's paths should rank very high.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

Regarding this whole rape thing: speaking as a woman, there is no way that if someone tries to force me to get into their car or go with them that I am not going to put up one hell of a fight. Just.. no way.

And about this whole obnoxious messages on my forum thing, I think I've decided what to do. I'm not going to delete the messages, and I'm not going to make a big point out of responding to them, either. Instead, I'm going to edit all of their messages so that instead of the anonymous yahoo.com accounts they've been using, their real IBM work email accounts show up. And their real names. (I am so sneaky.) I feel content with this solution. Also, you guys have been a big help, so thanks once again.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

A logical response to that tactic would be for them to use one of the many anonymous services available to them. Antagonizing an attacker is a sure way to ensure the attack continues.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

You want to make sure that in outing your mountain lion, you aren't cornering it. You just want to make the option of feeding off of you as unpleasant as possible.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

Well, personally I don't feel this is "cornering" the lion.. to do that, I don't know, I'd have to report them to abuse@ibm.com or something. Or call their workplace. But that would be lame and I'm not going to do that. I don't think that posting their real email addresses is particularly over-the-top, considering the crap I've been having to put up with in the forum lately.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

Then again, maybe you guys are right. Upon further reflection, I think I'm going to go with my original plan, which was just to leave the messages up there and ignore them.

You know, if I had a job that required actual thought, I wouldn't have to spend so much time on this stuff.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

I have to agree with Mike about keeping eye contact. I used to work in a juvenile detention center (5'2" little blonde 23 yr old girl) and I can tell you that staring down those 6' boys saved me from getting my head knocked off during a conflict more than a few times. I have always maintained, that if it comes down to life or death, you can be damn sure I'll do my damnedest to make sure you're the one who dies.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2000

i know (from experience) the best thing to do is ignore them. i've had the same kind of crap happen on the forum i belong to, and when the rest of us in the forum agreed to ignore the offending person, the nastiness usually goes away. if the posts make you uncomfortable, go ahead and delete them, but i wouldn't respond, as that just gives them words to twist around. yeah, it's really hard, and i've responded to insulting posts when i've known better, but sometimes you just have to vent! good luck!

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2000

Treat the insulting posts like a comedian would treat a heckler. I've seen performers ignore the heckler, works sometimes. I've seen them attack the heckler, some comedians are at their best in this mode. I've seen them insult the heckler, to do this you have to assume the heckler can be insulted. Not always the case. And last but not least I've seen comedians have the heckler escorted out. This choice always bothered me cause it seemed like the heckler won. So not posting them or blocking them out is in my mind a surrender of sorts, unless they are vulgar and nasty of course, then hunt them down kill them.

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2000

I'd actually like to see your site, Jan... I don't think including the URL is pimping. Here, I'll go first --

mary-ellen.diaryland.com

-- Anonymous, February 11, 2000

www.jetcity.com/~bookworm

For examples of what I'm talking about, go to the Forum and read either "Childish Insults", or "What are you doing this weekend" (which is in the "Uncategorized" section).

-- Anonymous, February 11, 2000