Rebekah suggested diatomaceous earth (DE) to get rid of possible lice on goats. Great idea! It's also a harmless way to get rid of fleas on all animals, slugs in the garden, and intestinal worms and parasites in animals and humans.It doesn't harm earthworms. BUT you need to be aware that there are TWO grades of DE. One is used for water filters and the other is food/garden grade. You want the food/garden grade because the filter grade does NOTHING to kill lice, fleas, etc. I recently bought a 5lb bag at my local feed store for $8.50. Let me know if you have questions. Paulette

-- paulette mark (kiwi333@ipa.net), February 09, 2000

Answers

Hi, Paulette,

I've never heard of using DE for pest control before (other than for slugs, that is). Interesting idea. Have you done it before? How do you administer it? Do you have to rub it all over their bodies, I presume? Does it give them any rashes or itches?

I also don't understand the difference between these two grades of DE. Could it be just how finely ground the stuff is?

I'd love to find something better than what my DVM son sells me for the dog/cat ticks and fleas, which is Frontline. It works well, but I don't like putting something on them which advises the human to wear rubber gloves. DVM son says it's ok, because the cats and dog don't live long enough to develop whatever nasty illness we humans are likely to get if we get the stuff on us.

So I grudgingly use it, as it seems bette than having my babies suffer from fleas and ticks.

See ya, kiwi.

Mal

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), February 10, 2000.

The filtering grade differs from the food/garden grade in one simple but important way, filtering grade is made up of rounded particles. Therefore, it is relatively harmless to the buggies. Food/garden grade has sharp particles that either damage the outside of soft bodied pest or is inhaled or ingested and damages pests from the inside. So do be careful when you use it, you don't want to breathe in the dust. A simple face mask is sufficient.

I know I've read that some people are hesitant to use DE in grains since they will eventually eat those grains. The feeling seems to be that the human body can withstand the ingestion of such small amounts of DE without problems. I wouldn't have any problem eating properly treated grain. But breathing DE dust, or any dust for that matter, can be a health problem. So just be careful when handling it and probably use a mask even outside.

Some people, knowingly or unknowingly, will sell filtering DE as food/garden DE. Food/garden grade is typically much more expensive and harder to find. So be wary of any really cheap DE you find. Ask some questions. The seller may be the one who was tricked/misled by a supplier. DE tends to do a very good job, if yours doesn't seem to work and you are applying it correctly, and in this case, have removed sources of possible re-infestation, try getting some DE from another source.

Before anyone panics on me, I'd like to mention Bread Baker's Lung, a real condition, although not likely to be found outside of a commercial bakery. It is caused by inhaling large amounts of flour dust over long periods of time. For that matter, there's also Gerbil Keeper's Lung, again caused by dust. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), February 11, 2000.

Gerbil, I'm impressed--you have a wealth of information on so many different topics!

I happened to be talking to my son, the veterinarian, last night, and remembered this post, and asked his opinion. I asked him first, if it DE worked on fleas, ticks and lice, and he said he didn't think it would work on ticks (they are tough little buggers, aren't they?). He thinks it works on fleas and probably lice.

Then I asked him about rubbing it into the pet's fur. He believes that people normally put it on their carpets, to kill fleas in the house. He thought it would not do much good rubbend into their fur, because it wouldn't last. (Besides, who wants to pet their pet, only to release a cloud of DE into the air?)

I asked him if that wouldn't be dangerous to the occupants of the house, breathing that stuff into their lungs, and he thinks it would be.

He also pointed out that it would probably make a carpet age a lot faster, too.

We discussed the topic a bit further, and agreed that you could put DE on your dog's bedding, and it would probably kill fleas and flea larvae, but that then poor Phydeaux would be breathing the stuff all the time, with with potential lung damage.

My conclusion is that I'm going to continue using Frontline, especially since our main problems is ticks, not fleas or lice.

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), February 11, 2000.

I ordered some from Whole Wheat Enterprises . I haven't recieved it yet. It should arrive next week. It was $18.95 for 5 lbs, shipping and handling included, and also available in 10 and 20 lb. lots.

Can't endorse Whole Wheat Enterprises, since I haven't recieved the DE yet (was to arrive in 8 to 10 business days, which would be somethime next week), but it was recommended from Pleasant Hill Grain. I have never heard anything but high praise for Pleasant Hill Grain.

I am sure there are local, and possibly cheaper availablity, so I am just passing this on. I could never find it locally.

-- cinnamon (homesteader145@yahoo.com), February 11, 2000.

I have been quite curious about DE since I have a friend who puts 1lb per 50lb grain for her goats. Her goats look so healthy and live long healthy lives. I have started using it. We have a boxer that is so skinny. We have had her wormed and she still doesn't gain weight. She got into the goat grain last week and in 10 days since she ate the grain you can already see the weight increase. We are letting her eat alittle of the grain everyday and we are so pleased with the weight gain. I think that the DE got whatever the worming meds couldn't. I saw in Mother Earth News that a women puts it in her breads. I didn't know about the different grades and am glad I found your post. So far I have so much in common with this forum. I will continue to read on. I birthed 3 baby goats on Wed. For the first time, it was an awesome experience, all my boys were there, 3, 6, 8 years old. What a day for us. The mama is a pure Nubian and the babes are also. Next we have a LaMancha due. Great life.

-- Karole Schoepf (Biz3boymom@al.com), February 12, 2000.

In this month's MEN,in a letter to the editor a woman writes about using DE to dust her livestock with for grubs,parasites,ticks,lice ringworm,etc.This is food-grade quality.She says she uses it on her cows,cats and chickens and really swears by its affectiveness.She even adds it to her baked goods to apparently kill any parasites her and her family might have picked up!Oh,she also leaves some of it around for her animals to eat.

-- Barbara (conlane@prodigy.net), February 12, 2000.

I am a pet groomer, in addition to homesteader / farmer, and I really believe in DE. It doesn't make a big clowd when you apply it like baby powder or the like, but you need to avoid too much exerberance! I now try to convince my customers to allow me to use it on their pets, to help limit my contact with the poisons, along with theirs and their pets. Used directly on the pet it will work for fleas and lice, but it is also drying to the skin. I advise extra oild in the diet to help, as well as some extra conditioner in the bath before I apply it. I also send some home for the pets favorite sleeping places, and advise against raising a clowd. I think there might be a point to it shortening the life of carpets, but better the carpet than me or the pets! I have had great results mixing it in pets food to kill paracites, also. The method is about 500 MG (about how much fits in a gel cap) with food, twice a day, for 21 days, to get all of the life cycles. For the sheep, goats, horses, cows, llamas, etc. I mix it with loose salt or offer it straight and have it always available. They seem to know when they need it. Good luck if you decide to give it a try! It is not only safer and more reliable (IMHO), it is far less expensive then the chemicles!

-- Fran ogren (trumpkinland@plix.com), February 14, 2000.