I can't believe so many people liked Kellie Martin on this show--I think she was awful, right from the beginning. Her "valley girl" voice and overacting were PAINFUL to watch...and she NEVER had any romantic chemistry with Carter, either. This final episode utilized Lucy's "skills" perfectly--the director (Great Job, Laura Innes!) let the make-up and lighting do all the work--and found a way to keep her from speaking. PERFECT!!! I admit the moment on the floor when she and Carter looked right at each other was the most riveting moment of television I've seen in years--but one good instant does not make up for every other episode that Lucy's presence has tainted. Even Lucy's final "words" were so overplayed. She could have just "mouthed" the "Thank You" to Elizabeth--and it would have been equally effective.

Lucy was an irritant that never materialized into a pearl...

-- Shari Moore (shari_moore@yahoo.com), February 18, 2000

Answers

ok........ i like lucy. she may have made mistakes but come on who hasn't made mistakes on that show.as for lucy's romatic life she mite have been good with luka

-- rachel (thehilfigergirl@aol.com), February 18, 2000.

OH MY GOSH...I can't believe I just read this. Kellie Martin was outstanding on ER and Lucy Knight was a great character. ER is slowly losing a lot of it's cast and replacing them with inexperienced actors that are going to make ratings drop eventually. let's be glad we still have a few alumni left. As for Kellie Martin, she is an outstanding actress that deserves an Emmy for her portrayl of Lucy Knight. Nothing about her character was ever boring. One of my favorite episodes was when she and Carter went looking for the guy that abandoned his daughter at the ER and she needed a blood donor fast. They went all over Chicago tracking this guy down! Martin/Knight will live in our hearts for her acting ability and her tear-jerker exit!

-- mckenzie (cwbsierraangel@aol.com), February 18, 2000.

shari, i thought i was the only one....

-- chrissie (citron1@pdq.net), February 18, 2000.

Give me a break. Tainted every episode. HA! She added a spark to the show that will be missed. If you personally don't like her thats one thing but to imply she isn't a good actress shows a real lack in judgement.

-- Alice (abutton68@aol.com), February 18, 2000.

Let me clarify:

I never accused Lucy's character of being boring--I said she was irritating.

As for Kellie Martin's supposed acting "talent"--her ideal showcase would be on a revamped version of Star Search (acting category, of course!)...where her community playhouse kind of "emoting" might not stick out like a sore thumb. Now, she is free to enter the sacred ranks of Made-For-TV diva--following in the auspicious footsteps of greats like Melissa Gilbert and Valerie Bertinelli. (Lifetime Network, here she comes!!).

-- Shari Moore (shari_moore@yahoo.com), February 18, 2000.

Whoa! Sorry you feel this way... I think there may be more to your emotions regarding Kelli Marin than mere irritation at her acting skills. Kelli Martin is a fine actress, and her work in last night's show was due to much more than makeup and special effects! Sorry, but the fear in her eyes was just so real... and due to talent, not "makeup". Sure, her character may have been irriating to some (writers fault, not the acresses fault)... but, geez, what do have against the woman to berate her talent so? She's a much better actress than Micheal Michelle (or whoever it is who is playing Cleo)... much better than the irritating Ming Na chick (or however you spell her name).

Get over yourself. You might not have liked the character, but, man, quite dissing the acress. Your dislike of her seems a little personal, IMO.

-- L. (bearcatiscool@yahoo.com), February 18, 2000.

Bearcat,

Opinions are--by their very definition--personal. What I dislike about Kellie Martin are her voice and her facial expressions-- attributes over which the writers have no control. The character, Lucy Knight, had the potential to be a female version of John Carter's character...the new med student, making mistakes, developing as an adult and as a skilled physician--and a central character of the show. But, for me, it fell short because of something lacking in the way Kellie Martin played Lucy. If you like her, fine...that's your opinion...and you are certainly entitled to it. But, don't try to imply that my criticism is anything more than that--criticism. If I tell you that I hate the sound of fingernails scrapping on a chalkboard--it's not a personal attack against fingernails or chalkboards. I just can't stand that sound...simple as that. Message Boards are suppose to be a forum where we can all offer our "Personal" opinions and that's what I did. Sorry that you chose to read anything more into it than that...

-- Shari Moore (shari_moore@yahoo.com), February 19, 2000.

Lucy Knight was irritating. Kellie Martin did a supurb job of pulling off the role. Seems to me she was irritating in Life Goes On...

-- Sandi (sthores2@css.edu), February 19, 2000.

Shari -- I've got to hand it to you -- I think you have written a perfect dis! Your acerbic critique was right on... Lucy bugged the shit out of me, too. And you are totally right... Kellie Martin went to the Jon Lovitz school of acting ... but, as I believe you conceded as well, in this last episode, where she barely spoke, she showcased her 'talent' best. As long as she keeps her mouth shut, she's fine.

I also enjoyed reading the righteously indignant responses to your comments... who are these people? I mean, unless you are a writer for the show, or Kellie Martin herself, how can you get that worked up over characters on a television show? How could anyone else take your comments so personally? Did you ever see that SNL episode where William Shatner was at a Trekkie convention and he just loses it, and says to his incredibly obsessed dorky fans, "Get a life. Have any of you here even kissed a girl?" That moment spoke volumes, and I think it's appropriate here.

I'm still on the fence as to whether this whole discussion thing is pathetic or progressive... (I've never done this before, but I was really curious to see how other people reacted to this storyline, because it was so dramatic, and I was so impressed by the artistry of the actors and directors...)I've been really enjoying critiquing and reading the critiques of others in this forum... it reminds me of being in college, and discussing a play or novel or film... very nice. Anyway, thank you all for your entertaining comments.

And Shari, I love that you had the moxie to malign the now martyed Ms. Martin... I, personally, reserve all of my animosity toward that self-righteous bitch, Carol Hathaway. I'm glad SHE'S leaving!

-- L (lolabronx@hotmail.com), February 19, 2000.

Thank you, Lola...

I have to admit to being somewhat chagrined at the amount of support for Lucy/Kellie Martin. Of course my tastes and "VALUES"(?!) can obviously be solely determined by my dislike of Kellie Martin. Oh, it's all so clear to me, now...I have violated some sacred viewer trust. Maybe a dislike of Kellie Martin's acting is one of the signs of the apocolypse and I've started some horrible chain reaction.

I will say, it's a refreshingly modern take on VALUES to learn that one can attempt (and maybe succeed) at seducing one's supervisor at work, brazenly promise said supervisor that the sex "doesn't have to mean anything" and still be considered "not wild", but--"full of life"! Of course, that's pretty much a moot point, now--considering the circumstances, but still, good to know!

(Probably now would not be the best time to admit I'll be glad to see Julianna M. leave as well, would it? But, your support has made me brave, Lola! I haven't thought much of Carol since she broke Shep's heart).

By the way, I remember well that skit from SNL--and now that I've seen how people react to the most innocuous things--it make's me wonder if Shatner ever got any real flack from any Die-Hard Trekkies over it...it was VERY funny, though.

Anyway, it's great to know I'm not alone...and there are a few brave, kindred spirits out there!

-- Shari Moore (shari_moore@yahoo.com), February 19, 2000.

Man, I think you guys are sad. Kellie Martin is a great actress. And I'm for one is surely gonna miss her on the show. That you guys just can't live yourselves into a storyline with your imagination and enjoy a show is too bad.

-- Ina (ifelsch@mail.com), February 19, 2000.

Shari- Thank you so much!! After reading this board I thought I was the only one who found Kelly Martin's acting ability to be poor and the character to be irritating. She actually turned me off the show for a while, and I love ER!! I hate to bash the actress or whatever, but the people on this board who are going to criticize you for disliking the actress and character are way off base. And I don't understand why people are appalled by the method of her departure, frankly, I think Kelly Martin made much more impact with Lucy Knight's death than she ever made on the show. Might as well go out with a bang right!!!!

-- Sally (sea3668@yahoo.com), February 19, 2000.

I think that Lucy's character was not really going anywhere on the show as Kellie Martin said, but if the producers of ER really wanted to keep her on the show, they would have added some new adventures for Lucy Knight.

-- kelly (kelbel8616@aol.com), February 19, 2000.

I think Sally is right on the mark. Lucy's exit made a lasting impression, and left everyone...those who loved Lucy, and those who disliked her, with the feeling that she should be applauded for something. I think kudo's are in order for the powers that be, for allowing her to leave the show with so much dignity, and so much impact. I never cared for her character at all. Ever. I never saw anything between her and Carter...it was to forced. I felt that she was too *In your face*, from her very first night on the show. I was not among those who shook a fist in anger, when I heard she would go. In fact, I was kinda glad. She bugged me. That said...I loved way she went out, and In spite of a striking performance in *all in the family*, I still think her shining moment came at the end of *Be Still My Heart*. So...for those of you who loved her...Why not take solace in the fact that she will be long remembered, in a positive light, by EVERYONE, and not just by those who were her fans.

After all, except when the writers of the show INTEND for you to, how often do you really think about the other departed cast members...and in what light?

Lucy will now make a difference, in a way she had not before. She's become immortal, for ER fans. Be glad for that.

-- Tres (TresMauvaise@yahoo.com), February 19, 2000.

Bravo, Tres. Eloquent and diplomatic. And true. Nice.

-- L (lolabronx@hotmail.com), February 19, 2000.

She was a CHARACTER in a TV show, for goodness sakes! She wasn't Mother Theresa!

-- Diane Palermo (chigirl822@webtv.net), February 19, 2000.

Well, whatever any of you guys say, i'll always love Lucy Knight on the show, and Kellie Martin as an actress. I thought it was great to see someone her age portray a character on the show. I for one was very sad when she left. I cried for the longest time. You guys don't have to enjoy watching her, and you don't even have to like her, but i'll tell you one thing, SOME OF US DO!!!!!! (sorry if that sounded harsh, just voicing my opinion)

-- Koh McRadu (kmcradu@hotmail.com), February 19, 2000.

It's too bad about Martin leaving the show. I liked the intensity of her character and liked how her growth as a "doctor" was portrayed (remember the scene where her heart pt, in response to Lucy's protest that she wasn't a doctor yet, said "To me you are"). If they have to get rid of someone, why not Benton. One episode of "caring" doesn't make up for his eternal "chip on his shoulder and still better than thou" attitude since the very beginning of the show. It's just like waiting for them to get rid of Bryant Gumbel on the Today show. They are both jerks. (wow, I do need to get a life....).

-- Catherine (mindolov@earthlink.net), February 20, 2000.

I can't believe some of the responses I've read here.People have a right to say whatever they want about an actress/character.You may not agree with them,you don't have to,but to personally attack someone's values and judgement is way out of line.It's just a TV show.I,myself am not fond of Kellie Martin,and I never paid much attention to the character of Lucy Knight either.I DO think that it was an extremely sad situation,and it was very disheartening to be reminded that things like that can,and do happen everyday,not just in "TV Land".

-- Barbara (barbie996@webtv.net), February 20, 2000.

Thank you, Ms. Moore. The character of Lucy Knight never rang my bell either, but what's interesting here is that so many of the persons rushing to her defense and lambasting those who dare to be critical are the same persons who have never had a kind word to utter about Michael Michele (Cleo), and now, it seems, Ming-Na Wen (Jing-Mei). These actresses have been dissed more than anyone on the show- on everything from their acting to their attractiveness, etc., and very few persons have rushed to their defense. Maybe now you Lucy-lovers know how it feels.

-- anonymous (anon@anon.com), February 21, 2000.

shari, if youa are looking for "values" , you need to watch more of the cartoon network!! secondly, you say you find kellie martin iritating for reasons beyond the writer's control, ie; her voice, facial expressions. then in another post you mention "values" and her (Lucy) trying to seduce her boss, and being "brazen". LOL @ you!!!! it seems to me you have "issues" here!! one of them is that you are a hypocrite!! this is just my personal opinion of course, and as you said, it IS personal!! and as you also pointed out, that is what these forums are for. please dont imply that my criticism is anything more than that- criticism. if you think Lucy was irritating, then goody for you, you dont have to deal with it anymore! Me and MY "kindered spirits" will grieve over this loss together, in this forum!! As for getting a life, thanks i do have one!! But the show ER is a great source of enjoyment to me, and i take it very seriously.

-- Alexis (lexicat1@webtv.net), February 21, 2000.

Carol broke Shep's heart? Where was that? Shep was an out of control, angry, defensive paramedic who almost hit Carol in a fit of uncontrollable rage out on the streets. She asked him to get help so that she could feel safe around him, and he refused. Less than two months later he had another woman, Vicki Pastroni (love that name) and he didn't look too heartbroken to me.

-- Phyl (erfan@flash.net), February 21, 2000.

Alexis,

Let me clarify something...early on, one of the responses accused me of having no values or morals, because I didn't like Lucy. That posting went on to sing "Lucy's" praises about her being virtuous and "not wild". That posting has mysteriously been deleted. It does make my response seem a tad strange. I was simply trying to use sarcasm to reply to that specific message.

As for the cartoon network...There's nothing more witty and entertaining that an episode of Rocky and Bullwinkle. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

-- Shari Moore (shari_moore@yahoo.com), February 21, 2000.

Phyl,

Mea Culpa, I had forgotten the episode on the softball field. He DID make a quick rebound. However, I do still think that the episodes that dealt with Shep's anger put him in situations where he was unfairly provoked. I also thought Carol just used that as an excuse to dump him and run back to Doug...and especially with their history, it didn't seem like the best decision. I mean what's more damaging-- being nearly hit, or being constantly cheated on? Also, in the first episodes with Shep, there was a genuine sweetness to him--like when she came home and found him fixing her roof. I found it upsetting that the writers turned him into a bad guy to justify Carol's dumping him and going back to Doug.

-- Shari Moore (shari_moore@yahoo.com), February 21, 2000.

I understand your point, but the reason Carol dumped Shep was basically because the actors in question had a hard time working together for 15 hours a day and then being with each other the rest of the time. Plus, Carol did not run back to Doug...quite the contrary, she broke up with Shep in about May and one year later, in about May, she linked up with Doug. She had one year on her own.

-- Phyl (erfan@flash.net), February 21, 2000.

Wow, this thread really stirred up some comments. Reading discussions here in the past few months, I had gotten the impression that no-one liked Lucy; her death really brought out the Lucy/Kellie fans. I like Kellie Martin, have liked things she has done in the past, but somehow Lucy never quite worked for me, in the context of this show and this cast. She just never seemed to ring true. I do think she was getting better, and I have noticed one thing; she's great with patients, but but with doctors and nurses. She seemed best at calming people down when they were upset, especially young people. Remember the explosion in the high school lab, and Malucci's patient with the facial burns? Everything he said to her made her more upset, until he finally did go and get Lucy, and she calmed the girl's fears. I did like the chemistry between Dave and Lucy, and I wish the writers had made more of that. I think the two episodes this season with Lucy and the heart patient were among the best of the season, and her acting in "All in the family" was superb. The whole episode was really well done.

-- Felicity (felicity08@juno.com), February 21, 2000.

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who was irritated with Kellie Martin. By the way Micheal Michelle is an excellent actress, before she was on this show she was on one of the best television shows, if not the best - Homicide, Life on the Streets.

-- Joy Carlson (carlson@loop.com), February 21, 2000.

Joy, I agree with you on both counts!! I still can't believe H:LOTS was canceled by NBC--what a terrible decision!

I thought Micheal Michelle was under-utilized on that show, but when she was on, she was very good. Stoic. Ironic, when most people expect women to be more emotional...the women on Homocide seemed to be the ones better able to exercise restraint.

I think MM's addition to ER is to give Peter Benton a new love interest. I don't think it was any secret how unhappy Eriq LaSalle was with the interracial relationship with E. Corday's character. I personally thought there was a lot of sexual chemistry between them! However, since he is such a key player on this show...I think the writers are going to give him a relationship he can be more comfortable with. (And it's very interesting that they seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot--that should build the sexual tension quite nicely!)

-- Shari Moore (shari_moore@yahoo.com), February 22, 2000.

Cleo (Micheal Michelle, forgive if I spelled wrong) was terrible on Homicide... and she was cast because she was (direct quote) "f*ckable", not necessarily for her acting skills. I think she's an adequate actress, but tends to be a bit monotone. Although, isn't her character supposed to be an ex-college basketball player? If so, she's got the physical part down. She kind of hulks over and walks with this little strut... the college atheletes I've known tend to carry themselves this way.

-- L. (bearcatiscool@yahoo.com), February 24, 2000.

Shari,

If your criticism of Kellie Martin is just about her facial expressions and voice, why did you say something about her final "thank you"? That was: 1)a line written by the writers, and 2)a choice made by the director to have her say it instead of mouth it. Was it Kellie Martin's fault that her character had that line? I thought the "thank you" was a bit much, too. But I didn't blame the actress for having to say it.

-- L. (bearcatiscool@yahoo.com), February 24, 2000.

Shari,

Congrats on having the guts to voice an unpopular opinion. Although I can't agree 100% with everything you said, I too found Lucy to be nothing but irritating last season and NEVER saw any chemistry between her and Carter. . . or anyone else for that matter. There are cast members I would rather see gone (read: Ming Na and MM) but I'm not shedding too many tears for Lucy. (Though I harbor no animosity towards KM herself; I think the part of Lucy was just written irritatingly.)

And to whatever jerk implied that all the females who hate Lucy are jealous: get a life. Women are capable of judging talent based on something other than whether someone looks better in scrubs than they do. What about the males who dislike her then?? I suppose they must all be gay, right?

-- joy (jac301@is9.nyu.edu), March 02, 2000.

Thank you Shari for letting me know I'm not the only one to dislike Lucy, and thanks to everyone else for providing a few good laughs. When Lucy was finally gone I expected this board to say "Really great send off but thank the acting gods she is finally turfed." I don't know who these criers are, but there is a voice in my head saying "mass hysteria" :D In any case, your opinions seem very well thought out and defensible- which you've had to do :) Your description of Lucy was perfect. When the episode was over the first thing I said was "Poor girl, the only time she can act is when she can't speak." Her voice and delivery ALWAYS spoiled her lines. I wanted to send her to elucution lessons, or rip her tongue out :D I hope the ruckus peters out soon- this is not The Lucy- or How-all-of-these-adults-with-lives-Feel-about-their-part-in-Lucy's-unt imely-demise Show. By the way, do you see Kerry's emotional reaction to it all as the path to her redemtion with the audience since she double-crossed Mark? Great stuff Shari.

-- May Archer (archerl@cadvision.com), March 04, 2000.

Lucy Knight was an awesome character because Kellie Martin is an awesome actress!!! Maybe those of you who were so quick to be annoyed with her should have waited a while to see what Kellie and her character were really all about!!! She had to be a little annoying because of her arguements with Carter! This kept the show funny! I feel, that if anything, Kellie didn't get ENOUGH time in front of the camera, and therefore, her character was never fully developed! Maybe this is why some people didn't like her, because they didn't get to know Lucy enough! I guess only HUGE ER fans got see understand Lucy before her brutal demise. (which was also well done by everyone involved! KELLIE INCLUDED!!!) Well, the way I see it, and I'm sure many fans will agree, that it's your loss.......and we encourage you to keep watching, and maybe one day, you'll be as BIG of fans as us!!!

GOOD LUCK KELLIE ON WHATEVER YOU HAVE PLANNED NEXT!!!

FROM YOUR LOYAL FAN, LAUREN GIENOW. (THE ER FaNaTiC)

-- Lauren Gienow (er_fanatic_8@hotmail.com), January 02, 2001.

Lauren, I agree with you! What really amazes me is that Mike deltes some threads but others are still here almost 11 months later.

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 02, 2001.

I believe Mike leaves these threads here because they might be of interest to future readers. And since we are still reading them almost a year later, he must be right! :-)

-- Maureen S. (shepcaff@ix.netcom.com), January 02, 2001.

HeY, I'm STILL glad Lucy is gone!! With TNT running all these episodes, I have certainly had the opportunity to look for some redeeming quality(s) in Kellie Martin/Lucy. I find none. I stand by my original postings. Her best work was on the hospital room floor!

-- Shari Moore (shari_moore@yahoo.com), January 05, 2001.

Can I ask a quick question? Why is it that people don't like it some people talk about Lucy but yet they don't mind it when others do? It seems a little hypocritical IMO.

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 05, 2001.

Maybe some people realize they're beating a dead horse.

-- James (eorejim@aol.com), January 05, 2001.

If you mean "Why hasn't that mean and nasty Cecelia chimed in on this topic, since she hates it when people talk about poor dead Lucy" James is correct--it's a dead horse. Come on, do I really need to point out how annoying the actress/character/whole issue is every time it's brought up/resurrected?

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), January 05, 2001.

I think it's just the fact that there is no possible way of Lucy returning (except as a ghost, and I don't think ER would go there) and we do talk about Doug, Carol, Susan, because although unlikely, it is possible that they could return. I liked Lucy, and I was upset that she left, in fact I was angry that Carter gave Abby more attention than her on that oh so devastating night, but now I am wishing for a pairing with the two. Go figure. Fans have to move on. She provided an incredible storyline...since she felt she had to leave, she left with some glory (so to speak).

-- Elaine (mrsclooney78@hotmail.com), January 05, 2001.

Oh. That's true. But to be honest I'd rather have someone mention Lucy rather than have someone pretending to be someone who is dead. Go see the "Who is Micheal Claypool" thread and you'll see what I'm talking about.

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 05, 2001.

I saw that thread you were talking about Andie. I didn't want to reply there for that troll so I'll reply here. Obviously the troll thought that it would be funny to do that. I don't know about anyone else but I didn't think it was very funny. In fact, as you said in that thread, that was totally disrespectful.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 05, 2001.

Writing about the troll is not ignoring the troll.

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), January 06, 2001.