I am glad to see this forum up and running again. However, I still like the fact that I can "run for cover" on Humpty Dumpty and the new ezboard forum of Ed's. I have no real problem with most contributors. Its the disruption of the forum from LL that brings it down. And even she can say what she wants to.....just don't say it 300 times in a row! Sad as it may be, I think that this forum will eventually have to face that problem the same as the old TB2000. In the meantime, I shall enjoy the comforts of the familiarity of this forum.

Taz

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), March 04, 2000

Answers

Nice to see you here, Taz.

-- Normally (Oxsys@aol.com), March 04, 2000.

Taz, I raised the question that it was strange LL from hell didn't go potty on the other Lusenet forums. Anyone else notice that?

-- TP (rollg@lore.com), March 04, 2000.

Taz, I totally agree with you, that there are probably bad situations that will come up and have to be faced. From everybody's sad experience in the past, let's start thinking about them now:

a. Some individuals simply have to be banned for life. I'm talking about the Jekell (sp?) Hyde types who come on Oh so reasonable and then can turn crazy in an instant. Then they will go elsewhere and point to some reasonable post of theirs that got deleted, and get dumb sympathizers to piss and moan about Nazi censorship. Well, live with it, that's life on the Internet.

b. Ad hominem attacks should be squashed by the forum moderators like an evil bug. It is one thing for me to say that so-and-so's views prove that he's an idiot. It's quite another matter to say that he's probably queer as well, which has actually happened on the old TB2000. I think that postings with ad hom material should be deleted with a message back to the poster telling them to resubmit their ideas without the ad hom.

-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), March 04, 2000.

Some people may have forgotten that LadyLogic only started spamming after she was banned for "turning polly." She's said some mean stuff over on Biffy and Debunkers since then, but never spammed there.

It's a given that those of us with half a brain in their heads know when and why the spamming began in the first place. Chuck had returned with a vengance in this post and riled up Diane into making her "zero troll tolerance" policy. Those seen as trolls were now deleted on sight as proven with her now famous phrase:

global snips for you

Any complaints about this policy were immediately deleted on sight, as they were made by "trolls". Censorship reigned and the Delete Key ruled.

I remember watching doomers@suck (i think) continuing to post, asking why his posts were being deleted every time he started one. Keep in mind, this was a BRAND NEW policy, so people weren't used to seeing posts appear and then suddenly disappear. Of course, each time he asked why, his post was simply deleted on sight.

Anyone who was here can remember what happened after that. The spamming attack began, I believe not intended as a DOS attack, but as a way to "outrun the Delete key." I mean, "Duh" (as Diane would say), why spam your messages unless they were constantly being deleted?

I am not condoning the spam attack in any way as it solves little or nothing and only serves to give TPTB a reason to continue censoring. But let's face FACTS, it didn't start until people were getting GLOBAL SNIPS. Of course, many denied this, even when faced with the evidence and simply spouted "Well, it doesn't matter anyway because they're spamming NOW!!"

The irony really is that all the posts by members of the "Delete on Sight" list amounted to little more than a few raindrops that is the puddle of TB2000. Carl Jenkins posted more than all of them combined in a matter of minutes. There was really NO REASON to subject them to the stupid global banning except to exercise a desperately needed power trip. And that they did.

As many have pointed out since then, the sysops kept pointing out the many "spam attacks" and needs for "global deletes" as reasons for their "hard work and efforts" and most people bought it. They martyred themselves, talking about their long nights and carpal tunnel fingers, and oh how we pitied the poor sysops!!

But I mean DUH (again), they brought it on themselves! They could have just let people post their silly "troll" things and be done with it! But then, they couldn't be martyrs and experience the adoration of so many fans now could they??

Getting back to the subject, I personally would welcome LL to post here as there should be no "need" for her to spam this place if she's not being deleted. If she wants to post threads that simply yell at people as I saw her do on Biffy, then the threads can go, but I see no reason why she can't be civil. At least some of the time. :-)

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), March 04, 2000.

hmmmm, I agree with you. Sometimes, when people feel they've been treated unfairly, it brings out the worst in them.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), March 04, 2000.

"hmmm"- Very well put!

Peter- Are you aware that it was the biased and inconsistent enforcement of the rules/guidelines you suggest which created much of the animosity in the first place?

-- CD (not@here.com), March 04, 2000.

Well said Hmmm!

Laura (AKA LadyLogic) seemed to erupt over the censorship issue and her extreme dislike for Diane Squire. Early on her postings were often filled with thoughtful content but she morphed into something else altogether. It would be nice to hear from the old Laura if she is still out there. Also, where is our teal font friend Andy Ray?

-- Ra (tion@l.1), March 04, 2000.

I agree with Hmmmm. I've seen LL evolve, and I believe that were she left to express herself, as much as it annoyed the sysops and many people, she would not have resorted to the destructive spamming.

For those of you who weren't here before the old TB2K decided on moderation, I must warn you that it was a wild and wooly place. It's to be expected with such a diverse range of backgrounds, religions, cultures, experience, gender difference, IQ's, age and education. That is what one must be prepared to face here. People who can't handle this will have the options to go on quieter moderated forums, but this place will also give the options to anyone and everyone to speak their views. Being shut-up and shut-out like LL was is what I strongly believe pushed her over the edge to act up as she did. Not everyone can handle the frustration she felt. Trolls come out of frustration too.

-- Old TB2K forum regular (freespeech@yahoo.com), March 04, 2000.

Well, Lady Logic can't bitch now. She has another opportunity to show her real colors. We will see how she handles the 'freedom'. Taz

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), March 04, 2000.

Wonder if some of the other "old" and "departed" regulars might be inspired to return?

-- canunkDbe (close@hand.now), March 04, 2000.

LL, once said something very nice to me. I too had a gut full of Diane, the censorship, and certain people being "pets," while other certain other people were thown off, or their posts deleted. Instead of going postal, I just quit posting. After awhile, it got so one sided I quit even lurking.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), March 04, 2000.

For what it's worth, LL and I chatted a couple times in Bok's room. She was extremely pleasant, civil and easy to talk with.

I expressed to her that I felt the spamming was wrong, and she responded very courteously.

I still feel what she did was wrong, but I believe she felt it was her only recourse to 'have a voice'.

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), March 04, 2000.

"Peter- Are you aware that it was the biased and inconsistent enforcement of the rules/guidelines you suggest which created much of the animosity in the first place?"

Well bias and inconsistency have been turned over to Large Dog and Ol Git [or so it seems]. No use in worrying about what hasn't happened.

Best wishes,,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), March 04, 2000.

I doubt that LL will be bothering anyone now since the FBI confiscated her computer and is going to frame her for the DOS attacks. What she was doing was pretty stupid so I guess it serves her right.

-- DOS (is@not.cool), March 04, 2000.