We have banded buck kids to castrate with good results for a number of years. We banded a bunch this past weekend and the scrotums still are warm where in the past they have become cold from lack of blood. That was the whole idea of the process, I thought.

This morning I called a local vet who owns sheep in addition to his practice and asked what to do about these kids. (This was not the usual vet in the practice I see.) It is his habit to take questions through an assistant rather than speaking directly to the client which drives me to distraction. The answer I got was "If it is still warm, the band is working." I keep thinking of the child's game "Gossip" and wondered if the question I asked was the question the vet heard.

I would really appreciate input from anyone who has used bands to tell me if the scrotum remained warm but still worked. This just has me dumbfounded and I absolutely do not want the kids to suffer further treatment if it isn't necessary. It just didn't sound right. The bands were "fresh" but who knows how long they sat in a warehouse before I bought them.

Marilyn

-- Marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), March 28, 2000

Answers

I am a nurse, not a vet and we raise cattle, not goats. But we do band our bull calves. It would seem to me that if the scrotum is still warm, it is getting blood supply. If it is getting blood supply, how can they die and drop off? If it were me, I would try to cut off the old bands and get new ones and replace them. Perhaps they were old and stretched too much. The whole idea of banding is to cut off the blood supply so they will die and shrivel up and fall off.

-- barbara (barbaraj@mis.net), March 28, 2000.

I would have to agree.Can you get a new band a little higher than the old one ,then cut off the old.There may be less pain this way.I would call the vet back and tell them you NEED to speak with him directly.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), March 28, 2000.

I have to agree with you on this one but I have to sympathise with your vet. He doesn't know this answer, just like after 14 years with goats I don't know this answer, and how could anyone know, why would you be feeling of them anyway? I don't mean that ugly, just other than a spray of disinfectant, and checking them weekly for infection, I have never touched them to see if it was warm or cold. They have always worked, as long as you have both testicles in the sack and don't have it so high that you involve the teats, and are carefull not to pull in any plumbing, and of course give tetanus shots. I would just leave them alone, perhaps when any of us band this year we can check this out! When I have new folks with questions like this I send them to Pipestone Vets, they will answer any question you want, sheep or goats they don't care. There are 4 vets there and love to talk! You can get their catalog at pipevet.com and call them on their information number at 507-825-5687, on your vets side, it would infuriate me to be paying for a vet visit and have him gabbing on the phone to someone else! Vicki McGaugh

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 28, 2000.

Vickie, I got into the habit of touching my animals' whole body a long time ago when I was in college, working and trying to train and show horses. It was often dark by the time I got to the pasture and I had to rely on my hands to tell me of any cuts, swellings, etc. It's all perfectly innocent and when I've been challenged on it I usually respond with "Beauty and other things are in the mind of the beholder." In my book, feeling an animal is no different from changing a diaper or bathing my grandmother after she had a stroke and couldn't care for herself. Please understand, I know you don't know me and my ways and I'm not trying to put you down at all, just explaining the situation.

As far as the band failures, if you have had none, wonderful. It does happen and happened big time to a friend who had sheep. Before going on a two-week vacation, she banded a number of lambs. The caretakers either didn't know or didn't bother to check the little guys, and when my friend returned home she had a real mess on her hands. The bands were intact and the scrotum had separated at the skin but it was still attached to the body by one little vessel. To make matters worse, we had had a rainy period during her absence and flies were everywhere. They called the vet who recommended just cutting the last vessel, topical sprays to keep out further infection and flies and antibiotic shots. The first two lambs died of peritonitis if memory serves and it wasn't pretty. They put the others down rather than continue to have them suffer needlessly, not to mention the emotional and financial drain of treating them in vain. That was one place where experience taught me well and it was an inexpensive lesson because they weren't my sheep.

As far as the vet, the assistant did not disturb him with a client. Instead she called me back about an hour after my initial call. I too don't appreciate waiting during my appointment while they talk to another client unless it's a real emergency. I once had an appointment with a vet for a goat at 9:30. It was summer in Arkansas, hot as all get out and no shade. I let the receptionist know I was there, then waited outside with my goat. And waited and waited and waited. People came and went, more people came and went. I went back in about 11 to remind the lady I was still there and ask for water for me and the goat. The vet finally came out about 12:30, no explanation, no apology, no real treatment but a big bill. I was instructed to come back for a follow up in 3 days. It was equally hot that day and I very politely took my goat into the waiting room. We were seen on time and I left after cleaning up the goat's-uh- calling cards. The next time I made an appointment, I tried waiting outside again, this time successfully. I'd made my point. I don't usually play such games but I felt it was needed in that case. He did treat the range of animals but if he hadn't wanted to treat my goat he should have said so instead of accepting the appointment.

-- Marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), March 29, 2000.

Hi, Marilyn. I remembered this old question for some reason. I banded Elvis about a week ago, and his little nuts didn't even seem particularily constricted because the band is actually pretty big (imagine if he were a calf) for kids. Anyway, he didn't seem to mind, not that night, or ever. Today I noticed that his testicles are kinda shriveled, and it would seem to me that as he grows, the band will become increasingly tight.

-- Rachel (rldk@hotmail.com), June 15, 2000.