testing to see if form posting works through the NAT server

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

Answers

But I don't want to kill this thread. In fact, I want all of my female readers to use this thread to talk about their favorite feminine hygiene products. And obviously form posting did work through the NAT server, or this wouldn't be here.

I prefer Tampax. I like the multi-packs with different absorbancies, so you don't have to have twenty boxes cluttering up under your sink. Although I have twenty boxes, anyway.

How about the rest of you?

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

Libra for me. Especially the new ones in the disco packaging.

hi, jeremy!

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

Tampax tampons for me, in assorted sizes, and Kotex Overnites (their spelling, not mine) in the way of pads.

I'm always deathly afraid I'll get caught without extra tampons at a crucial moment, and thus I have them scattered everywhere in my life. Especially throughout the office where I work - in the top drawer of the filing cabinet, in the closet, on top of the refrigerator, under the sink in the bathrooms. Since I'm the only female in the office and I have 7 male co-workers, it amuses me to think of the horror on their faces when they unexpectedly come across a tampon.

I've considered placing a frilly tampon-and-pad-filled basket in the bathroom just to see what they'd do.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

It's an unconventional choice, but when I was having periods (now on Depo so I won't have any =) I was using Insteads. Sure, they're expensive and you get fairly bloody inserting in and out, but other than that you don't feel like you're on your period at all, plus you can leave them in for half the day and all night long. Whee!

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

I'm a Tampax gal from way back. I have to use the Super Absorbant since I had a baby last year. My periods are simply out of control! I miss the days when a box of regular absorbancy was enough for 2 1/2 periods.... And the cramps!!! YEEECHHHHH!!!!!

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

i use the keeper, which is similar to the instead cups.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

OBs: less packaging and I agree with Kim's old bf Wil who said that tampons with applicators would be the last vestige of sexism: "Ooo, nasty, don't touch it!" (I'm sure Kim put it better.) Plus pantiliners in a just in case kind of way. I hate those fuckers, though, especially when they turn up at the corner and when you pull down your underwear, the underside sticky takes a couple of pubes with it.

I assume that last goes under the heading "too much information."

I'm intrigued by the Instead or other kinds of cups because they have even less packaging, but I wonder how they're practical when you're at work in a stall: you remove it, gush, reinsert it, and then have to dress again with what I can only assume must be a red drippy hand that will stain whatever it touches. Or do I just need lessons?

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

I used to use OB's because of the lack of packaging, and also because they were easier to fit in a purse. But then I had to buy a box of Tampax because the convenience store didn't have OB's, and it was like a little tampon vacation. "Oh, wow, I remember these! These were so much better!"

I find that OB's (and Playtex, but who uses them?) leak. I still keep some around for times when I don't want to carry a big bag, but I'm back to Tampax.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

Oh, and this is no offense to Wil, but I get a little annoyed when men want to tell me what is and isn't icky about my body, even if they think I'm being oppressed by some imaginary ickiness. Getting blood on your fingers when you're in a public restroom, unrolling toilet paper that will be used by other people, is icky. Have you ever walked into the ladies' room and seen little bloody fingerprints on the TP roll? Well, I have, and I wish that woman had been a little less comfortable with her icky parts and a little more willing to use a tampon with an applicator.

Or maybe I'm just too repressed to see the beauty in bloody fingerprints. I'll see a psychiatrist.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

I also think that sticking your dirty hands in there is somewhat unhygenic. Hands are great vectors for disease transmission, and the vagina is an especially susceptible orifice. I use applicator tampons for the same reasons why I use a fork to eat instead of my hands.

-- Anonymous, April 06, 2000

I don't like applicators because I can't control the exact positioning of the tampon, and I always end up bashing my cervix or placing the damn thing so low I have to use my damn finger anyway. With o.b.s, I just push past that little ridge on the vaginal wall and I'm set; can't feel a thing.

In a public restroom, it's wash hands, use stall to make change (touching door only with left hand), wash hands again. There shouldn't be blood in the lower half of the vaginal vault (I love that phrase. I am starting an all-girl band called Vaginal Vault), unless the tampon leaks, which usually doesn't happen with me, so I don't end up with bloody fingers.

Menstrual activities are still so private that I get surprised by little revelations about how other women handle it sometimes, like the time I learned that apparently most women don't tuck the tampon string inside themselves. Doesn't it get peed on? And what if it dangled in the toilet water and... *shudder* Man, I don't wanna think about this anymore. Girls who don't tuck, consider it. I've been doing it for fourteen years and haven't lost a string yet. It doesn't really have anywhere to go, you see.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

To prevent the string from getting peed on and/or dangling in the toilet water it is normally held to one side during urination (uh, I believe).

Hmmm. Tuck it, eh? I've always been surprised at the number of strings one sees at the nude beach. Nobody tucks. (Not that it bothers me, or anything, but you'd think they'd feel self conscious about it.) I've always wondered why women don't tuck them or cut them shorter. Okay, it's because you can't convince most women that the thing isn't going to become hopelessly lost, but still...

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Earlier in the day, when this thing started, I wondered how long it would be before a male expert stuck an oar in or a foot maybe ? ?

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I don't mind this thread, as long as no one tells the joke about the guy who lost his penis in the automatic tampon remover.

Yeah, you know, those common automatic tampon removers. You see em everywhere.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I'm with you all the way on this one, Kim.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Dave Van, do you often try to convince most women that the thread won't become hopelessly lost?

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Really you prefer Tampax, Beth? When I started using tampons, I used Playtex b/c that's what my older sister had. In college once I mooched a Tampax from my roommate and didn't like it at all--the cardboard instead of plastic applicator was rough, somehow, and the tampon itself was a different shape. I leaked with them but not with Playtex, and now if I leak with OB it's only because I've expected too much of it.

You're supposed to change a tampon every time you pee, but I don't: tucking the string works for me. Hygiene-wise, I'm with Kim-- wash before as well as after, same as I would before I ate an apple I held in my hand. Otherwise, Jen and Beth, you're quite right.

Leaving visible fingerprints is unforgivably rude. Besides, it's the whole left-hand/right-hand thing: the right (or dominant) hand does the tricky work of inserting and tidying and gets messy and the left hand touches the door and the roll. Which is why I wonder how those cups work. My right index finger might get bloody inserting an OB, but no more than a wipe of toilet paper can manage. Removing and reinserting a cup would be--I should think--much messier for more of the hand. And while I'm sure it's possible to dress with one, non- dominant hand, I've never particularly tried. How you do cup-users manage that aspect?

Sometimes a tucked string becomes untucked, and I am no more ashamed of that than I am of the rest of my body. I might not like its bulgier places, but I'm not self-conscious about my body. I don't care if anyone in a locker room or on a nude beach sees the string any more than I mind buying tampons from a male clerk or being seen with one in my hand. If I cup it in my palm on the way to the lav, it's for consideration of others' hang-ups.

Rich calls an untucked string a fuse. This amuses me.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Ummm - can someone help me out here - obs??? what ar they?? and cups??? I have a weird picture in my head. Please put me out of my misery

Here (Ireland) the choice is basically Lilets or Tampax or STs. I go non-app Lilets as I hate the way Tampax expands lengthways and not sideways.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

OBs are a tampon without an applicator. They're wrapped in a bit of cellophane. I imagine someone, somewhere, has inserted one without removing that. Its claim is that it was invented by women, for women. I doubt anyone assumes they were invented by women, for men.

I'll leave detailed descriptions to someone who's used them, but briefly, Instead and Keeper fit over the cervix and dam the bloodflow from the uterus. You remove them periodically throughout your menses and deal with all a day's blood at once.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

While I was in Australia I used some kind of non-applicator tampon that was not an OB. I can't remember what the name was. They were more or less identical to an OB in terms of packaging and appearance, but the actual tampon was more like a Tampax. I guess people are just shaped differently, because the Tampax shape is way more reliable for me, leakage-wise. I think one of the reasons I hate OB's so much is that I have to use the super-ultra-mega-absorbant version to prevent leakage, whereas with Tampax I can often get away with the regular version.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Like others have commented, when using Instead I used the one hand for this, one hand for that method. Not a big deal. Used toilet paper to wipe off the blood (ok, more than usual, but not unmanageable) and flushed that too. Fingerprints? Oh come on, they can't flush that?

And to whoever thought you put Insteads back in- you throw out Insteads after use, Keepers are the ones you reuse, but I thought you had to wash them first? Though that's my issue with those- I'm not washing that item in the public sink like I've read their ads say to do.

Though since the Insteads I could basically leave in all day until I got home, I rarely had to deal with the stall issue.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Hi, pleased to meet you, only woman alive who uses pads, nice to see you. I have used tampons maybe three or four times in my life, and I find them to be hideously uncomfortable.

"O, you won't even feel it!" people say. People lie.

Pads are great, they are comfy, they don't fold anymore, they don't leak anymore, and you don't have what feels like the Empire State Building in your vagina all damn day.

And as far as the applicator-free ones goes, neither do I blow my nose in my hand, I don't particularly want to run my hands through my puke, why on earth would I want to touch my menses?

Ah, girl talk. How dainty.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Ugh, really, Kymm? I hate pads. I have to wear them now (no tampons for six weeks after a baby, and all that) and I'm relating to my child in the aspect of feeling like I'm wearing a diaper too.

Of course, that could stem from the fact that I'm using the high high absorbancy ones, but still. I can't WAIT to go back to tampons.

And Tampax for me all the way.

They were there. (=

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

im with Kymm. i can't use tampoons. Hurts like hell. never have been able to get it so I can't feel it.

So I'm a Stayfree prima girl all the way. And I HATE HATE HATE always pads.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Want more information about menstrual history, tools, supplies, etc, than you can shake a xxxx at?

Museum of Menstruation

Actually, I love this site! the guy who runs it also runs a physical museum in his house that I think would be worth a visit.

Anita of Anita's BOD and Anita's LOL

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Boy, the things you learn in this forum.

Ya know, it never occurred to me to tuck the string in, hence it always got wet when I peed and became uncomfortable during the day. But with the assurances in this forum that it won't get lost up there, I will try it next time.

I'm a Playtex girl myself. Tampax never worked for me (always leaked) and while I liked OB, insertion was always a difficulty. The smooth plastic of Playtex is like buttah.

I wear pads at night, and I must say, they've gotten much more comfortable and reliable. Talk about new technology with "wings" and synthetic fibers that absorb twenty times their weight in water! I bought some Always super absorbency and was surprised at how thin they were, unlike the Stayfree of the past.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Yeah, I wear pads sometimes when I have bad cramps. They are way better than they used to be.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Oh, yeah, and you'll all be very amused to note that Jeremy can't cancel his notifications on this thread, because his network is screwed up and he is unable to send mail. HA.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

AllieAnne, word on hating Always. They've got that layer of "Dri- Weave" which is like a plastic cyclone fence that keeps your body away from the cotton -- but it also works like a Uterine Lining Colander, leaving little bloody gibbets all over the surface. The design would make sense if we actually did emit that blue liquid you see in the advertisements, though.

[This discussion reminds me of Doug Coupland's _Microserfs_, where two of the women in the office start talking about their periods and the men send one another panicky screen messages on the sly, totally appalled -- one of which was "CHUNKY days?"]

Change tampons every time one pees?! I drink sixty-four ounces of water a day and o.b. is five bucks a box. No way.

The thought occurs, after recalling other brands of tampons that I've tried, that string-tucking may be out of the question, or at least more difficult, for women who use brands where the two strings are unknotted. The way I fish out the string is to stick a finger in, find the knot, put a finger directly behind it, push the knot against the upper vaginal wall, and slip my finger back out, pulling the knot with it. Even if I fail to locate the knot, if I can get a loop of string out I can just pull on that, since the strings are connected via the knot.

You know, as soon as some man acknowledges that I've made him say "Blech," I'll quit, I promise.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I'm surprised to see so many Tampax users, and only one other Playtex girl. I never liked Tampax - Playtex expand in that "patented flower shape" and I haven't had a problem with leakage.

Believe it or not, tucking never occurred to me! I always just held the string to the side. I'll definitely do that from now on.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I think Playtex tampons smell funny. And I feel guilty throwing away all that plastic.

I do like the "comfort tip" Tampax, though.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Kim: "Cool." Neener neener neener.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

This string tucking discussion is blowing my mind. I had no idea you didn't have to change tampons every time you passed water. Thank god for the Internet.

I use o.b.s (except at night, because I'm terrified of Toxic Shock Syndrome) and indeed, they are never comfortable. The surface feels like sandpaper. Now I'm thinking I should comparison shop. Oh, and I live in a place where the buildings are new and most of them have sinks in every bathroom stall. In the stall. This should be a basic human right.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Ooh, y'all are gonna hate me . . .

I've been on the pill since 1980 (with one hiatus), and I have such a light period (when I *have* one) that I use Always pantiliners. (With wings, of course.) I haven't been able to use tampons since 1990. I'd guess my total blood production is around 2 tablespoons.

Can't say I miss it much. I went off the pill for three years, and I still didn't bleed much, but I was a raving bitch 4 days out of each month. If I went off the pill today, my coworkers would probably chip in to buy it for me. Plus, when I'm on the pill, my smallish breasts are a bit larger.

So: the pill's side effects: regular, vanishingly light periods, larger breasts. I'll take it!

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Personally, I've never smelled a Playtex tampon unless they were the deodorant kind -- which smells coming out of the wrapper.

As for Always, haven't tried the dri weave thing yet (so many choices -- I think they've got regular, regular with wings, overnight with wings, regular with dri weave, no wings, etc). But the uterine lining colander reference made me laugh.

And my pet peeve going to shop for these damn things? Well, I have two of them: 1) seeing a male childhood friend who works at the supermarket stocking that aisle. It seems he knows when my period is and plans on being in that aisle day or night so he can say "hi" to me when I come in and 2) shoplifters who break open a box of tampons, take a couple and leave the box there opened. I mean, come on! I know there are desperate people out there, I know these things are expensive, but, really.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

If you've been changing tampons every time you use the loo, that might be why the surface of o.b.s irritate you. I don't know how much liquid you consume over the day, but for me that'd be a tampon change every hour, and that *would* eventually lead to cringing upon insertion. Mother nature intended only for smooth things such as penises to enter the vaginal canal. (See, that just doesn't have the same ring as "vaginal vault.")

About eight years ago o.b. added a layer of rayon around the compressed cotton to make insertion more comfortable. While it succeeds on that level -- rayon is slicker than cotton -- I have noticed a decrease in the absorbency since then. They're probably not the best choice for chicks with serious flow anymore. I'm glad mine's light, because I could never go back to applicators. And pads make me feel like I'm sitting around all day having wet my pants.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

The new rayon "smooth" surface of an OB tampon won't help if you've got calloused fingers. Uh-oh...have I crossed the line?

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I started out using Playtex, but switched to OBs years ago and have used them ever since. I liked how they're small and don't have the applicators to deal with. I'm not crazy about getting my hand dirty but just deal with it. Recently I tried Tampax because the machines at work have them and they're free, but I didn't think they were as absorbant and still don't like the cardboard applicator. They also seemed to shred more which is a bad thing.

I always carry a bunch of supplies with me and am always trying out new sizes of pads so there are a million boxes under my sink. One side effect is that I'm always giving tampons to strangers in public restrooms which makes me feel good.

OB has just come out with a new super colossal size, which I have bought but not tried yet.

I was on the Pill for years & years and laughed at those with cramps and heavy days, but now that I'm older and fatter and in peri menopause my bad karma is catching up with me in the form of heavy flow. I always use pads AND tampons because I am totally obsessive about the whole thing and live in fear of an accident (when I'm wearing my white dress while cheerleading, naturally). Pad technology has come a long way, though. The adhesive is a big improvment from the disgusting belts of old, and the ultra thin maxi pads really work.

I have always tucked the string, and wondered what other women did. change every time the pee? go around with it wet? I am horrified by the sight of one at the nude beach. I am generally horrified by the whole subject & rarely discuss it with anyone. This conversation has almost convinced me that I shouldn't be so shy, there are things I can learn yet.

The man in my life is equally horrified - once he became irritated because I'd left an unused tampon on the bed after taking it out of my pocket. We are both equally horrified by bathroom things. It's good for both people in a relationship to have the same level of horror at bodily functions.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I used to be a Tampax girl - all the way - those plastic Playtex things scared the hell out of me. And they were PINK! ICK! But then my naturopath told me it's a good idea to use pads once and a while, to let the "chunks" out (yes, just like in Microserfs - that was hilarious!). So I alternate. Now I hardly ever use tampons - only if I'm travelling or going out for a wild night. Although I so rarely feel well enough to party while on my period. I generally feel like poop the whole time.

One strange thing that happened to me just a couple of years ago, is right when I'd get my period, I'd suddenly experience *extreme tenderness* around the whole... area. I couldn't sit or move it would hurt so much. It began when I was in the hospital for something, and continued UNTIL I decided to swith to 100% organic cotton unbleached pads - and the problem *went away*!!!

I also just spoke to a friend yesterday - she's been having major yeast issues. Anyway her gyno asked her what brand of pad she used - and she said 'Always' --> her gyno said that the Always are *very* well known for causing problems!?! And the weird thing is, I used to use Always pads when I was younger -- and got yeast infections! She's since switched pad brands and hasn't had an infection in a few months!

Before I switched to the natural ones, I used to love those shaped Kotex pads with the little gathers on the side; no leaks and fitted to your body. Perfect! All the natural ones are pretty standard - kinda suck. When I get really sick of it I'll use tampons - but they tend to hurt a bit. I've found that putting a teeny bit of KY on the tip makes things *much* easier - none of that scratchiness.

And changing your tampon every time you pee??? Whoah! That would *HURT*!

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

OK, this is kind of off-topic, but it's related and it's funny.

The owner of the very small company I work for is considering starting a companion business. He's been trying to come up with a name for this business, which would involving coating pieces of metal with various solutions (don't want to bore you with the details). His first suggestion for a name was "Coat-Ex." (Sound it out.) After I finished rolling around on the floor and peeing my pants with laughter, I had to explain to him why that name was probably unwise. Then I had to explain it again to two other guys who evidently never looked under the sink when they were sharing bathrooms with their sisters. (For those of you in the dark, Kotex is a brand of sanitary napkin.)

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Oh, I've just GOT to get in on this discussion. I just love the way it makes men squirm.

I'm a Playtex girl. For the same reason someone else mentioned, Tampax expands lengthwise and Playtex does that flower thing. Works better for me and feels better.

I have to use the non-deodorant ones because the deodorant ones can lead to UTI's and I'm prone to them anyway. Cotton underwear and non-deodorant tampons for me. UTI's suck.

I gave up pads a long time ago because I was paranoid that people could see that I had that huge thing on, or hear it when I walked. I swore that someone could hear the movement of the plastic when I moved. I'm sure they're a lot better now but I just find the damn things so uncomfortable. And there's the whole swimming aspect that you just can't avoid. No swimming with a pad.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Oooo! What fun! I haven't ever found a tampon that doesn't leak (never thought of my flow as that heavy, but maybe I was wrong). I either use a tampon and a pantiliner or a pad by itself. I like that whole Always dry weave (colander) thing, but the yeast infection story is scary. And why didn't somebody tell me this tucking thing years ago? I've always just tried to dry the string off with toilet paper after I pee. Top 10 Ways the Internet Has Made My Life Better.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

it's pads all the way for me despite a couple of "lessons" over the years from the gyn about tampon insertion. One pet peeve I have about pads is they are NEVER the right width! The thicker pads are always too wide so I have "pubic pull" syndrome the whole day and no I don't wear a thong either. As my underwear fit fine, why don't the Pad and Undie folks get together on this one? I have no brand loyalty whatsoever - in fact I use different lines by Kotex, New Freedom and Always depending on flow.

BTW, remember the old style belted pads?? I had the "pleasure" of HAVING to use them last year after getting a Bartholin's cyst lanced. They have NOT improved with age.

j

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I have to tell about my friend's experience with pads.

The "self sticking" pads had just been put on the market. We all got a sample in the mail. My friend thought it sounded like a good idea, and used it. She thought it was uncomfortable, and decided she wouldn't use them again.

Of course, THEN she tried to pull it off. (ahem) Yes, you got it. She had used the self-stick to stick it to her "SELF." (It never occurred to her that there would be any advantage to sticking it to your undies. I mean, the whole purpose of garter belts was to pull the pad tight against your body, to avoid leakage, right? So the purpose of "self stick" was to stick it tight to your body, without the nuisance of a belt ... ?)

I'll bet she didn't need to shave for months, though.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I'm with Kymm. I hate tampons. I hate tampons almost as much as I hate condoms. And I never put two and two together, but that sort of makes sense, doesn't it? I don't like anything there that just don't need to be there. (Of course you know there are times when there are some things (made completely of *natural* fibers) NEED to be there.)

I also hate wings. With a PASSION. But that is just too gross to go into detail about.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Kim, you must marry me or otherwise provide for my daily amusement. I nearly peed my pants (but couldn't, since tampons are so expensive). "Uterine Lining Colander." Kim Rollins, Web and Word Diva. O Kimmy, we hardly knew ye.

Does anyone change a tampon every time she pees? I've got you beat, there, Kim; I drink about a gallon every day (I empty a 64 oz. jug at work, plus a liter water bottle at the gym, plus untold pints at home). I'm a biiiig risk taker, I guess.

I liked the plastic Playtex applicators and just dealt with environmental guilt after I realized their environmental impact--and how much women litter with them--until college, when with sexual activity I got a lot more comfortable with my body and could use OB.

I sympathize with anyone who finds tampons uncomfortable physically. If tampons without applicators are unhygienic, then what's the risk factor of sitting in a pool of rotting blood and matter all day, right up against your urethra? No thanks.

I don't understand anyone being squeamish about touching menstrual blood with their fingers. Humans emit a variety of gooey, sticky, smelly stuff (clear blue liquid like Ti-D Bowl not being among them). Not much of it is pleasant (I myself find the idea of an adult imbibing human milk as nauseating as cannibalism) but it's your own body. There's always soap and water.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Do you guys have to pay VAT on sanitary products? Here in the UK, us girls became victim to a hefty 15% vat tax placed on them a few years go. Good news though.... in the April 2000 budget, Gordon Brown responded to our outrage and removed it ... pity he was too squeamish to reveal it in his budget speech to he house of Commons though....hee hee!

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

What a great forum topic! I've been creasing up visualising all you American ladies doing the lavatory dance: put your left hand out, put your right hand in, pull your tampon out, and shake it all about ...

Seriously, I'm a non-applicator tampon user; used pads for several months after a cone biopsy of my cervix but prefer tampons for convenience. (Pads have come a long way, haven't they! I started out on monster cotton pads safety-pinned to a belt, traumatising for a sensitive teen.) And in my youth I flirted with using a natural sponge for ecological reasons. It leaked badly though; I'd cough and suddenly think, uh oh ...

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

The U.S. doesn't have a national VAT, and whether there's sales tax at all varies state to state, product to product and service to service. Of the 50, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon have no state sales tax. Of the 45 states with a state sales tax, Maryland is the only one I can find that exempts "sanitary napkins" or tampons.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I am really enjoying this thread (strangely!).

I thought I would contribute a tampon horror story. If you are easily offended or can't deal with the yuck facter, please don't read on...

A couple years ago, I must have gone to change my tampon and instead of removing the used one (brain fart?), I inserted another one on top of the one that was already there. My period finally ended, but after a few days I noticed that things smelled kind of funky down there even though I was showering daily. Finally, I went on an exploratory mission up there, and felt the tampon. This is where the horror facter comes in. I could not grab onto the damn thing! I could barely touch it with the tips of my fingers, and the string was nowhere to be found. I very sheepishly had to go to my husband and explain what happened and ask for his assistance. He has long fingers, and was somehow able to pull it out. YUCK!! He saved me a visit to the doctor or emergency room and was really very nice about it all. Of course, I was horribly embarrassed.

I've never told this story to anyone, and here I am putting it out on a public forum. Come on! Someone else must have a horror story? Tampons can and do get lost.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Not lost exactly--you knew just where it was!

Researching sales tax exemptions for tampons, I came across this little tidbit: in Vermont, where the sale and possession of marijuana and cocaine are illegal (I assume), sales of such drugs are subject to the same 5% sales tax that's applied to everything else. This is the Al Capone system of crime control--if you can't get 'em for one thing, ding 'em for tax evasion.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

O God that's funny! My ex-roommate once told me a story about having THREE in without realizing. When I can't even get one in easily, I have no idea how anyone would have enough room for three. She apparently could have stuffed her wallet and keys up there if she didn't want to carry a purse.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Oh, honey, that happened to me twice during my younger years. (Only in my case I think I left it in at the end of my period.) The first time I was so grossed out about it that I actually made an emergency appointment with my doctor to make sure I hadn't rotted away or anything. The second time it was only a day or so, but I was even more horrified that I had been that dumb twice, so now I'm completely obsessive about remembering.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

in response to questions about the keeper--it can be annoying if you have to change it in a public restroom on a really blood-gushing day. the advantage is that (at least for me) it can hold a LOT without leaking at all. when i was working a regular 9-to-5 job, i could usually go an entire workday and only have to change it once, at most.

someone said that the instead and the keeper fit around the cervix. that's not true for the keeper--it's shaped longer and skinnier than the instead cup, and is designed to sit lower in the vaginal canal. i've heard from women who have used both that the keeper is a little easier to deal with because of this design, but i haven't used the instead cup, so i don't know first-hand.

when i used tampons, i was a loyal tampax girl. i tried the plastic applicator playtex a few times, but i actually found that the sharp edges of the "petals" were more uncomfortable than tampax's cardboard applicator. i used o.b.'s a few times, too, before i switched to the keeper. not too bad, but uncomfortable to insert on light days (though i probably shouldn't have been trying to use a tampon on those days, anyway).

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Here's a REALLY gross tampon story: I had a relative (whose identity I will not reveal here) who unknowingly left a tampon in there for 3 WEEKS, and didn't realize it until she went to her doctor because she was experiencing a smelly brownish discharge. Needless to say, she was pretty embarrassed when the doctor reached in there with a pair of forceps and removed the tampon, but she was also thankful that nothing more serious came of it.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I'm a big fan of the Tampax multi-pack. OBs leak for me, too, and I just don't like Playtex at all. The only thing I really like about the non-applicator OBs is that they're tiny enough that I can sneak one out of my bag at work and into the bathroom without everyone noticing that I'm rummaging for a tampon.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

I forgot to mention; I used those instead cups, and for the first time, there was a HUGE ick factor. All that BLOOD and ew ew ew. But I got so used to it - and it really changed my mindset about the whole thing. Now I have *no* issues with my own flow! It's great!

I can't use them though; they hurt a few times and man, the suction on those babies around your cervix!!! I had a really hard time getting them out.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Oh, Lawd, Lawd, Lawd...Thank you all for making me howl with laughter! My office-mates think I've gone officially nuts as I sit here reviewing this thread (sorry, but how could one resist?) and thinking, "Whew! I'm not the only one!"

With regard to losing things in one's body: yes, I too have had to go "fishing" to locate misplaced Tampax. On days when bleeding like a stuck pig (why is it always Day 2?), two tampons, even the Super- Double-Extra-Absorbent-By-the-Way-We-Soak-Up-El-Nino-Tides model isn't enough.

I do a modified tuck, tho. I take the string and (I don't believe I'm admitting this in a public forum) tuck it between the labia and up around the base of the clitoral shaft, thereby eliminating the whole "hold it aside when I pee" thing.

Thanks to all for the frankness, the laughter, and the total bluntness on the subject. I love not being squeamish about my body. Any guy that can't deal with the fact that I menstruate probably isn't going to deal well with the other "girly" aspects of my life either...y'know, the occassional need for chocolate and salt, being a snappy bitch two days a month, and wanting to bang anything that moves the night before the reddest day of the month. (Sorry if that was just too much info...)

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

So, after reading all of those posts and realising how damn lucky I am that (1) I figured out that tucking was a good thing very early on and (2) I've never forgotten about a tampon or anything. Curiousity, however, is getting the best of me. Where can you get these "keepers" and "instead cups"? Someone? Anyone?

-Meghan

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Meghan (and whoever else is interested):

There's a side-by-side comparison of the two here: http://www.mum.org/KeeperInsteadpic.htm as well as info on where to get them.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Replies to various things on this thread:

* Where to get Insteads: Some grocery stores carry them, some don't. The grocery store in my hometown carries them, but none of the grocery stores I've frequented in Davis have them (argh). Embarrassingly, I used to have my mother mail me packs from home. I think you order Keepers off the Internet at some site.

* Stuff involving tampons and pads: I've used all three methods, went from pads to tampons to Insteads. Pads were what I used for years because I was squeamish at the idea of sticking something Up That, plus my mother was an o.b.-non-applicator user and I could not figure out how to stick the tampon far enough up with my finger. (Which is to say that I couldn't get it very far at all from squeamishness.)

But pads were SO horrible. Wings, curves, absorbence, whatever, the damn things leaked on me after an hour or two, and I don't even have that heavy a flow. I probably moved too much (i.e. walking, much less when I did other exercise). Having a nasty bloody crotch all day long, which stuck to the pad (and no, I didn't have the gluey end attached to me). My mother, Ms. Sensitive Nose, kept telling me how I stank and how dogs were going to sniff my crotch and KNOW I was on my period. I couldn't shower enough for that woman. Plus I hated summers when my period hit. Winter you're wearing so many clothes no one can tell, but summers I swear everyone could hear the plastic and smell the smell through the legs of my shorts. And I did ballet. Need I say more there?

So eventually I made my mother buy me applicator tampons, which I could figure out, and went free of the diapers forever. =)

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Although some people in this thread have worried that they're being too frank, I think it's really great! I've learned a lot just reading the comments that I never knew before. Tucking, for instance--never occurred to me, ever. I've always done the same thing as Gena, that modified type of tuck, and then if for some reason it fails and I think there's a chance I've peed on the string, I'll just change the tampon.

I started off using Tampax, with various pads (Kotex, Stayfree, Always, etc.) at night; tried Playtex but the sharp plastic edges of the "petals" were scary and painful. I never had a real problem with tampons in general, but I do remember that it took a couple years before I got to the point where I would never feel them--when I was young, it seems like they would always slip after a couple hours. Tried OBs shortly after they were introduced to the market and never really had a problem with any messiness, especially if I changed before any leakage occurred. (For the record, I've never seen bloody fingerprints in a public restroom, and hope I never do....) I loved them because I could just grab one out of the box, stick it in my pocket or wrap my fist around it, and saunter down to the bathroom without anyone being the wiser. I have always had a problem with pantiliners--why is it that those little things are so much more uncomfortable and unreliable than the bigger pads?

I was a devoted tampon user from my first period until about nine or ten years ago, when for a number of environmental and health concerns, I switched to reusable cloth pads. So far, I guess I'm the only one on this thread who does, or who's admitted to it. It's not a method for the squeamish, but I've found it to be very comfortable. The only problem, of course, is handling it in public bathrooms, but after a couple years I figured out a system good enough that I could use cloth pads at work without undue embarrassment or mess. I will occasionally use organic nonbleached pads or tampons (7th Generation or Natracare; used to be able to find a great brand that had wings but the company seems to have gone out of business), for trickier public situations or for swimming, showers, etc., but I've pretty much converted to cloth. I use a couple different types of cloth pads in various sizes and absorbancies, including some that have wings, which I just love! They're so much softer than paper/plastic combinations ever could be, and I've had a lot less trouble with my periods since I switched.

Did everyone out there go through the "menstruation movie" at school? We had one in 6th grade; all the girls had to go to the gym and it was a big hush-hush secret and all the boys wanted to know afterwards what we'd been doing. We got free samples of Tampax then and at some other times during jr. high and high school, which I'm sure had a lot to do with my early brand preference. Wonder if Tampax still has a stranglehold on that particular advertising method?

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Tuck the string? Ingenious!

Oh, man! The time and energy and grossness I could have saved myself! And I always thought I was such a smart gal. Damn.

I can't stand pads. At. All. I always feel like they're gonna fall iout, and that whole waking-up-with-the-adhesive-attached-to-your-ass factor is just stupid.

I'm terrified of the super-absorbent tampons. as my sister once said, "You can hear them sucking before you put them in. It's like a Hoover."

She was a big pad-fan, and I kept trying to bring her to the Tampax team. She kept saying that they hurt and she could feel them, blah, blah, blah. I finally figured out... she was leaving the applicator inside her body. yikes.

once i discussed how she should really do it (in total tampax commercial fashion) she called to tell me how much i changed her life.

a big sister's job is never done.

-- Anonymous, April 07, 2000

Wow... years of education and life experience, and I never thought to tuck the string.... Beth, thanks for informing me of this interesting thread. I'll never be the same. In fact, I'm supposed to start my period next week, and I can hardly wait to try it!

Oh, and Tampax is my brand... I used Rely years ago (remember those?), but there was that whole toxic shock death thing....

Thanks for the info, everyone.....

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

I've used the Instead cups and they're really great in terms of leakage worries. With pads I'm always worried that I'll have spillage over the sides -- I've had this happen to me too many times to count. And with tampons, I've just never felt secure. The Instead cups, on the other hand, have never failed me once. They're in there and they're not gonna let you down. Nope. And they can hold an amazing amount of -- what's the word? menses? blood n stuff? -- anyway, they can hold a lot.

The only real problem I've noticed with them is that they seem to make my cramps slightly worse. I don't know if that's because I'm putting them in wrong or what. But still, the no-leakage thing is enough to make it worthwhile. I can always just pop another Extra-Strength Tylenol.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

I use OB--not because of the less packaging thing, or because they fit in a tiny purse but because my god they are so much more comfortable than tampax. I don't know how you girls use that long hard stick that hardly absorbs anything. Seriously, if you've never tried OB--DO IT!!! I bet you'll be surprised at the agony you put yourselves through with tampax.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

I've never forgotten a tampon but I've had condoms come off inside a few times ... Man! the first time that happened really freaked me - it was my first night with an ex boyfriend - he came out - looked down -no johnny to be seen anywhere! I ran to the bathroom had a poke around inside and after quite a while (whilst geting more and more stressed - like where could it of gone?! ) I found it wrapped way up round the furthest possible part of my cervix . I could barely touch it with the tippy tips of my fingers!!!

I was about to give up but I envisaged a truely excrutiating trip to A&E - The potential mortification factor spured me on to try harder! In the end I managed to get it out but not before I'd had to endure the cringemaking experience of lying on the bed with my legs above my head - my panicky 'then' boyfriend offering futile advice and me red as a beetroot!

God that must of been the most unromantic night of all time - you'll be pleased to hear my current boyfriend and I take other precautions!!!!

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

I found this site through a women's TV writers group. (Hi Gang.) I've tucked the string since my teens, but now I find tampons too uncomfortable. WHen I have cramps they're unbearable. So I wear pads. And I have leakage problems on the sides, even with wings, so I'll try those pads that have the little curved tucks and see if it helps. Also, accupuncture and Chinese herbs have helped incredibly with killer PMS. Even those homeopathic pills you can get at the health food store really help smooth the period out. So I've had all my menstruation questions answered by this thread.

Anybody want to talk about masturbation?

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

I'm all about talking about "nasty" girl stuff, so when I saw this thread I just had to contribute. About 6 years ago, I became friends with two other girls based on the fact that rather than have to worry about leakage, we just inserted two tampons at once. We've been friends ever since.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

Holy shit! I forgot that! When I started my period (staying overnight New Year's Eve at my regular family; the next morning from the depths of her hangover, Anne, my girls' mother, confronted a bloody, scared lisa), my mother started me out with belted pads. I knew about that from Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret, so I didn't really know there was anything else. The fifth-grade Talk didn't cover tampons. Summer rolled around, and I couldn't swim. My mother tried to give me a pep talk about how this is my Woman's Lot; thankfully my sister was home and set me straight. She gave me a Playtex, and, tremulously, I inserted that thing, but it was really uncomfortable. Bless my sister again, she guessed I had left the applicator in and didn't laugh at me too much.

After that I was golden.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

Heh. Cool. Girl stuff. =)

*Tucking: I've always tucked. In fact, it had never even occurred to me that you COULD pee on the string - "How could you," I thought, "if the string's tucked in?" Err, I don't tuck it in, I just tuck it around... In the folds and nooks and crannies.

*Whoops: Yeah, I remember accidently putting in two tampons. I always use the SuperDooper tampons (see below), and it was really uncomfortable. It felt like I was having cramps, but it was ... different. Like I had a Yugo shoved up into my vagina or something. I figured the tampon just wasn't in far enough, so I went to the bathroom to try again. I pulled out on, and when it popped out I saw that it was dragging another string with it. Good thing I caught it when I did, rather than letting it moudler up there for weeks...

*Usage: I have really heavy, miserable periods. Just so I won't have to run to the bathroom every hour or so, I have to wear a SuperDooper (the orange ones) Tampax *and* a pad. I've never had any problems with Always pads... Although that collander comparison is hilarious. ;)

*Men: I did have one male friend, a while ago, who wanted to know about periods. He was too embarressed to ask his girlfriend, and he didn't want her to think he had some weird fetish about it. So I explained pads and tampons and etc etc... I mentioned the "chunky" days and he just about fainted. ;D

she's actual size

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

I must be mentally damaged (hush), but I have a real problem inserting tampons. My fingers just can't grip the little ridge-y ring of the applicator well enough to plunge the cotton-y part in properly; I always end up getting it in there halfway with the applicator and then shoving a finger up my vaginal vault (my term for the day -- ta, Kim!) to get it really in place. And then it still leaks a bit, sometimes. Such a hassle to do in the privacy (and wide, open space) of my home loo, but totally frustrating and icky to do in a public toilet.

Pads are okay, though they do feel like a diaper. And I'm paranoid about odours wafting, but not nearly as much as I was before I learned that everything's okay as long as it's not fishy. That, however, is another forum altogether...

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

JoAnn -- I would tell you that once you find a man who's willing to fish out a lost tampon without complaining, you should marry him; but you already did. Good job.

Man, just when you think you're being environmentally conscious by using non-applicator tampons, someone has to outdo you and buy reusable ones. Hell.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

This thread (no pun intended) is great. I feel like I am now a member of the Menses Society. Tucking. Who'da thunk it? What other girly secrets am I missing out on?

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

Thank you all. My highschool term paper is almost complete.

-- Anonymous, April 08, 2000

All I'll say is how happy I am that I only have a penis to deal with.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

heh...i'd totally forgotten about pads with belts! i actually used to wear those for sleeping when i was younger, because normal pads would ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS leak when i was horizontal. they were hard to find in stores, though (late '80s/early '90s).

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

Carmen: well, I also have some advice on shaving your bikini line without pain or redness, even if you have the world's palest and most sensitive skin (which you DON'T, because I do.) Maybe I'll share with the class, but not now, because it's complicated and it's very damn late.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

Kim, you better come back and share that bikini line secret, because if your skin is paler than mine you must be transparent.

Sparkler - I think Tesco hasn't been charging VAT on tampons - at least, one of the UK supermarkets hasn't been. Good news that it's been changed across the board, though I agree it would have been hilarious if Gordon Brown had made that a headline event in the Budget.

By the way, have you heard of these Instead things? I don't think they've made it over here. I'm afraid it sounds a bit too messy for me.

Kate, don't go thinking you're the only lucky one who is in love with the pill - I use 1 box of mini and 1 box of regular tampons every three periods. Mind you, I don't remember it being much different before the pill (but I've been on it for 7 years now, so who can say?) So the idea of changing every time I make a wee is completely out of the question when your flow is that light, unless you particularly relish the sandpaper innards feeling. Which I don't.

I've never accidently forgotten to remove the last one, mainly because the celebratory post-period bonk is such an important part of my monthly routine.

Incidentally, does anybody else have a particular way of referring to their period? Tristan calls it 'the circus', as in 'the circus is in town'. This makes for much 'pull aside the knicker elastic and cue the circus music' hilarity. Mind you, it's the only time of the month I wear knickers to bed, so he'd have to be pretty dim to not figure out what's up.

Pamie, I so admire that sisterly advice thing. My sisters have never really gone in for that degree of sharing until recently. My younger sister is currently pregnant, and has emailed me all sorts of horrible gory details. She had three months of bad morning sickness and would regale me with vomit stories as well. What a treasure.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

What James said above.--Al of NOVA NOTES.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

Kim: Please share your womanly secrets. I have pasty white skin and red hair. (Can I make myself more unattractive?) I am in need of any girly secrets that involve sensitive skin. I know this is true because I am an official redneck. I always thought the term was meant to describe any beer drinking, cigarette smoking, unemployed fat relative that lived in Mexia, Texas. I have now learned that it means going to an arts festival and forgetting to put 50 SPF sunsreen on EVERY exposed part of my body. I somehow neglected to grease up my upper arms and neck. Hence my new redneck status. I am now sporting a farmer's tan. Lovely.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

damn, I was so busy on friday, I can't believe I missed out on all this fun!

I use Kotex tampons(I believe I might be the only Kotex user to post so far???.) I used to use tampax, but toward the end of my period, when the flow was very light, tampax would hurt like hell when I would go to insert and remove it. I think the Kotex are shorter and wider as opposed to long and thin. When there is not much moisture, long and thin sucks! Anyway so I use Kotex and I am very happy with them. Although I do feel guilty about the plastic applicator.

I absolutely hate pads. In fifth or six grade we had a little menstruation meeting at school. They invited all the moms and discussed sex and menstuation and we were allowed to write our questions on pieces of paper so we wouldn't have to be embarassed. (Embarrased, shit, I think we embarassed our mothers, we were asking things like "what exactly is a blowjob?", "exactly how do you do a 69", oh the joys of elementary.....anyway) They gave us a little book with a form to order a "starter kit", did anyone else have one? It was filled with all kinds of pads. My mom did not want me to wear tampons, I think toxic shock was big around this time, so she would only buy me pads. I would wear the pads to bed and wake up every morning with a puddle of blood on the front of my underwear and in my bed(I sleep on my stomach). So I started saving my lunch money and after school I would go to the store and buy my tampons. I've been wearing them ever since. I have had a few surgical procedures where I have to wear a pad after, and damn if I can ever get it on right. I either feel like I have a dick or I just shit my pants.

Anyway. Kotex rocks. except for the plastic thing.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

Lately I mostly buy the tampax multipacks with the various sizes in one box, but I like the Kotex tampons better. What I really wish they still made are the stick tampons that Kotex used to make - they were, without doubt, the easiest to insert I've ever used. I've tried Instead and found them as awful to insert as a diaphragm -ok not quite as bad because they don't have steel springs, but damn near as awkward.

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

I just remembered my funniest tampon story. I went away to camp up through age 14 or so. This one girl in my bunk was talked into trying tampons because we were doing some overnight trip. Imagine a dozen teenage girls shouting instructions through the bathroom door.... and she kept wailing, "but what if I get it in the wrong hole?"

-- Anonymous, April 09, 2000

I use Instead. It is so much easier. You change in the morning and at night. Simple as that. I used to use Tampax and some other kind in a pink box made from the same company, and Always. Once I was stranded and I had to get a tampon from a friend. She uses playtex. It was the smelly kind. I felt so weird all day because it felt powdery. I don't want powder in my vagina! What wonderful things we talk about.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Re the comments by James and Al: I can't imagine that circumcised men have much to deal with, but what about uncircumcised men, when you have to deal with smegma? I'm honestly curious about how difficult it is to manage general upkeep, especially since there's an increasingly popular movement to forego circumcision with baby boys, but all the adult men I know (that I would dare to ask) have been circumcised and so have no clue what's involved. (Although I have no idea if any of the male lurkers on this thread are "intact", either, so perhaps we won't get to go off topic here and I'll never know....)

Oh, and by the way: Tampax makes multipacks? Kotex makes tampons? All news to me.... Once I stopped using the mainstream brands, I never paid any attention to what was on the shelves. Although I did somehow hear about Insteads and the Keeper. Am I right in assuming that the Insteads are closer to diaphragms, while the Keeper is more like a cervical cap?

I'm starting to envy everyone who's lucky enough to have sisters. No wonder I never knew any of this stuff before. Though it's kind of interesting that a lot of us managed to figure out the same or similar tricks on our own.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

This is my favorite thread EVER.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I used to be horrified at the idea of uncircumcized penii and swore I would never get intimate with one. Then I got involved with a Brit (who openly ridiculed the whole thing) and got to see one up close and personal.

I had imagined the foreskin to be a distinct separate piece of flesh, like a cuticle, but it isn't. It's more like instead of the shaft having smooth skin up to the head (as I'd thought was "normal") the whole thing has all this slack which ends up coming over the head. So cleaning it is just a matter of pulling the skin around, which I would think would be no big deal for the guy to do during the daily shower. I never noticed any smegma or odor with my guy. I understand that some men have tight foreskins that make this difficult, but I think that's the minority.

The analogy I would draw is that it's similar to our labial skin - kind of bunched up and wrinkled. We have to get in there with the soap and clean things off every day too, but it's not a major deal.

Now I much prefer the penis in its normal state and get grossed out by the scars that most penii have from being circumcized, poor little things.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

re: foreskin - a year or two ago was the first time i ever slept with a guy who *wasn't* circumcised and all i can say is that there is a *really* good reason for that little piece of skin : SENSATION! it's amazing! completely different and absolutely FABULOUS!

it does need to be cleaned very meticulously though. and it makes the penis look adorable!

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Did anyone else see that French Gen-X movie from a few years ago with the tampon conversation in it? "You know how men dicksize, well, women want to be the one who bleeds most! Think about it, why is the best-selling tampon size always Super? Why didn't they call that one Regular? Because this is our dicksizing!" I paraphrase and distort, but that was the gist.

I'm relieved to not be the only one who uses mini tampons sometimes. I'm relieved to not be the only one who wonders how you could possibly forget you had one in. And I'm very excited about the string tucking thing. Sisters!

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

OK, I just wnated to say that Aunt Flo is visiting right now, and inspired by this thread, I got out my little box of Instead cups. God, why did I ever quit using them? I rode my bike to work this morning and did I once worry about leaking like I did with stupid pads? Hell no.

Seriously, if you've never tried these cup things out, you really should, they're the best thing since sliced bread.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

My understanding is that sex with foreskins is better all around (i.e., for the guy as well), which makes it a damn shame that the American medical profession is so gung-ho about snipping off those built-in sex toys.

I'm still kind of confused, though, about how this foreskin thing works, having never been up close and personal with one. I've seen photos, so I have a basic idea, but the particulars are confusing. I always thought it was a separate piece of skin. If it's just baggy extra skin, how do they manage to perform circumcisions without needing stitches? And does an intact penis look different from a circumcized one when erect, or does the extra skin stretch out taut? I've only seen photos of flaccid penii (or penes or penises or whatever), and it seems to me that when the penis is erect, the foreskin can't possibly cover the entire head--but on the other hand, it must look somewhat different than an erect circumsized penis?

Inquiring minds want to know....

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I have never seen a *circumsized* one in real life. (And I never knew that was unusual til I read it in Cosmo or some such rag at my doctor's office.)

From all the pics I've seen, they look the same when erect because yes, the foreskin does pull taut. However, I've never noticed scars in the pics I've seen, so it could be that there are other differences that I don't know about.

It is totally easy to keep a uncircumsized penis clean. People who have trouble pulling the foreskin all the way off the head should maybe see a doctor, from what I hear.

I know this stuff because I am responsible for the cleaning of three small penises. (That's my standard disclaimer when the circumcision subject comes up on bulletin boards.)

Maybe y'all can explain something to me, since we're being so candid... Oh, wait. I'm gonna put this in the jac-- um, the masturbation topic.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

What a great thread!

I thought I was the only pads-only girl in the world! (or in the US,anyway.)

NOW HEAR THIS: Tampons are not safe. It is not healthy to stick some bleachedthing in your vagina. Plus, the fibers get loose and can infiltrate the walls, causing irritation, disease, etc. Try dunking a tampon in a glass of water sometime, and watch the fibers fly. Research this. An article 10 years ago got me so horrified I've never used a tampon since.

Of course, in my ideal world, women would get to commune in a cave on beds of moss, napping & sipping comforting drinks while menstruating.

I also have a theory that PMS is the result of not being able to acknowledge how we feel and be able to take care of ourselves the way we should during our cycles. If I could take a hot bath, have tea & go back to sleep when I had my period, instead of going to work & dealing with people, I think my Very Bad Mood would be prevented. It makes sense that a girl would want to be introverted during this time, and not doing presentations or supervising others (goddamn it).

Guess what time of the month it is....

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I'm guessing Celia has an all nylon wardrobe... ;-)

It makes me angry that parents are even allowed to have their male infant's genitals mutilated, let alone that they routinely do it. It makes me even angrier that doctors are willing to carry out this unethical procedure. I mean it's understandable that parents can be misinformed and make a mistake because of it, but doctors? Why do they do it?

This is a human rights issue. Who has the right to order or perform unecessary, mutilating surgery on a newborn infant? This surgery has no useful purpose. This surgery reduces sexual pleasure in many ways. (In fact, the reason for circumcision was once given as, "to help prevent masturbation." How stupid is that?)

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Now that I finally find myself with a minute to post as promised, my 9- step bikini-line method. This is meant to be performed the evening before the area is exposed. Don't try to shave the same day that you plan to go to the beach. You are asking for no end of trouble.

1) If the undesirable hair is more than a quarter-inch long, trim it down to stubble with an electric hairtrimmer or scissors.

2) Soak in hot tub for at least ten minutes. Put the razor (which should have a fairly new blade) in the water with you. Hot skin, hot hair, hot razor. These elements are important.

3) Soap area with moisturizing soap. (Some chicks use hair conditioner, which stays in place better and softens the hair shaft even more than the hot water alone.)

4) Pull skin taut. Shave first *with* the direction of the hair (e.g. pulling razor toward the center of your body.) Use very short strokes and frequently clean blade by swishing it rapidly through the tub water. Hair caught under the blade is a major cause of nicks.

5) Check out your job so far with a critical eye. If you have pale pubic hair, this might be all the shaving you need. If the fur is darker, you will need to perform step six.

6) Soap up again and shave the area (cleaning blade frequently) one more time, this time *against* the growth.

7) Rinse off. Don't rub the freshly-shaven area as you do, because this may aggravate any nicks.

8) Once out of the tub, apply Neosporin Plus* over areas where hair has been removed. Put on fitted cotton shorts or pants, such as bicycle shorts, and sleep in those. This will keep the antibacterial medicine on the affected bits, where it's supposed to be, instead of allowing it to get all rubbed off. Full-coverage cotton briefs work as long as the elastic doesn't rub up against the shaven parts.

9) The next morning, rinse off Neosporin in shower. Put on bikini and prace around. You look great. You are most assuredly All That.

* Make certain you are not allergic to bacitracin, the main ingredient in Neosporin. A friend of mine treated his new tattoo with the stuff, not aware of his allergy, and the tattoo took on a blistered look and eventually peeled off. It was gross, painful, and expensive. Neosporin Plus is the variety that includes lidocaine, a pain inhibitor, but regular Neosporin will do. I'm just a wuss.

I've tried lots of bikini-line methods, but this one is the best, combining as it does the elements of thrift, painlessness, efficacy, and speed (provided you like to take baths and would be taking one anyway -- otherwise you have to count soaking time.)

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I had seen and felt a few circumcised penii (I like that plural) by the time I met an uncircumcised one. I remember looking down the (English-born) man's body at it, eye to eye as it were, and wondering (because I was still fairly inexperienced) what the hell was wrong with it. I didn't admit this in the contraceptive forum because I don't like getting flack about it, but we never used condoms. We were both virgins (oh, were we ever), he was *completely* inexperienced and I nearly so, and I was already on the pill.

Anyway, I confess to that stupidity only because I don't know how uncircumcised men use condoms. The Joy of Sex or maybe the instructions in a box of condoms say the foreskin should be retracted before the condom goes on. I knew, also from The Joy of Sex, that some men enjoy tongue contact under the foreskin, but the first time I tried that was my last. Any contact with anything but my vagina for head of his penis was just excruciating. I always likened it to the inside of your eyelid. So I wonder, how do uncircumcised men and their partners manage safe sex?

It was my experience that a foreskin made it better for the woman as well. (And no, there was never a hygiene issue.) I don't remember how, now, since it's been lo these many years, but my next partner seemed to lack something. All things being equal (which they certainly were not), I think a foreskin is a fine thing. Ever since, some circumcised penii have seemed strangled and scalped and pained to me.

For several reasons my (American-born, circumcised) husband and I aren't having children, and one of the benefits of that is we'll never have to resolve our disagreement about this. He says that, as the penis-owner, he should get to decide. That's the path my friends took with their two sons--the mother left it up to the father, who is, and he decided that their sons would not be. However, that woman had never encountered the other variety and I have, and I think that uncircumcised penii look nicer and perform better--for both partners.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

I'm a pad girl too. I could just never get comfortable with something stuck up inside me all day. As far as the yuck factor goes, pads and tampons seem equal. Since I'm on the pill, mine is usually pretty light, so sometimes I only have to use tp, which I use like a tampon. That's not too uncomfortable. And please nobody tell me that it's gonna kil

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Someone told me the plural was "penes".

After having three kids, I can use any kind of tampon. I don't care. Sometimes I just use a bale of cotton.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

The plural is penes or penises.

Lisa: That's easy to answer to. Your husband isn't the penis owner, the hypothetical child would be the penis owner. The child should decide, once he is an adult.

It seems that circumcised men often want their kids to be circumsized as well. This is only natural, as they want their kids to be like themselves. However, the American and Canadian pediatrician's associations have been against routine circumcision since 1975!

In fact, the U.S. is pretty much the only country where circumcisions are carried out for non-religious purposes. Old traditions die hard.

As for safe sex, I'm not sure where you're coming from. During erection, the foreskin automatically retracts. Just roll on the condom.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

my two cents on uncircumcised penises[1]: i agree with what lizzie, jennifer, gwen, dave, and lisa have posted. being american, i always considered circumcised penises to be the "norm," and i was kind of leery of this whole uncircumcised european filthiness. ;) then i met my current boyfriend, who is uncut, and wow! it certainly makes sex more interesting, and i've NEVER ever ever noticed any hygiene problems. besides, it's awfully cute.

as for lisa's question about condoms, we have used them in the past, and i don't remember that the foreskin posed any difficulty. usually the foreskin pretty much retracts when the penis is erect, and the condom fits just as it would over a circumcised penis. also, the head of his penis is not nearly as sensitive as lisa describes, so i guess that must be a purely individual matter.

--
[1] ok, pedantic footnote time: the correct plural of penis is "penises" or, if you're trying to be playfully/seriously pretentious, "penes." "penii" is incorrect any way you slice it (ha ha, no pun intended).

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

awww, two people beat me to the "penes" thing while i was typing my response. damn you!

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Dave, as I said, I knew only the one uncircumcised man, and we knew that he couldn't handle what Joy of Sex thought was standard. His foreskin didn't retract during erection. If that's normal, then he wasn't. It didn't affect his functionality at all, and neither of us had anything to compare it with, so we never wondered about it. He might have since, but I wouldn't know about that.

As far as circumcision goes, you needn't cop such an antagonistic attitude toward me, since it's obvious we are both against routine circumcision. When I called my husband the penis-owner, my context made it clear that that is in contrast to me, the obvious not-penis- owner, not in contrast to the hypothetical son. Since he's got the owner's manual, so to speak, he would know what's the better choice. That's how the disagreement arises: he's known only what it's like to be circumcised, whereas I have known both sorts of penises but not from the owner's perspective.

Furthermore, I doubt any man chooses as an adult to be circumcised, although I believe such a procedure should not be performed willy-nilly on week-old infants. (Yes, that pun was deliberate.)

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Uh, when I said "that's easy to answer to" I meant for you to answer to your husband. You said you argued about it, and I was attempting to provide you with ammunition. When he says he gets to decide since he is the penis owner, you can easily answer that the son would be the penis owner, and the son can decide for himself.

I did not cop an antagonistic attitude.

Yes, it is rare for an adult to choose circumcision, given the choice. That is precisely my point. If the person would not himself choose to do it, why do so many parents take it upon themselves to make that choice for him?

(Again, I am making this point not to counter anything you have said, but to counter what your husband might say.)

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

"Furthermore, I doubt any man chooses as an adult to be circumcised"

Actually, my 34 year-old boss chose to be circumcised last year. I'm not sure of his reasons, since any time he so much as hinted he was thinking about bringing up the subject, I ran screaming into my office and slammed the door. There's only so much I want to know about the man.

After he was circumcised, though, he made a point of going around and showing his "result" to both of his partners, one of whom I'm married to. I was more than a little afraid that he'd try to show me, too, so I avoided him as much as I could.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Getting back to the subject matter... I'm not 100% happy with pads, but they're better than pads in my experience. When I was a youngster and too shy about the whole mess, I'd use pads, and have them leak on a fairly regular basis. My anatomy was not the same as whatever the makers used to design pads, obviously.

When I worked up the nerve to try tampons, I found they worked like a charm and I never want to go back. I find that simple Tampax cotton works quite well for me, and I don't have problems.

Now that I've found out a bunch more about how tampons are made, I'm waiting for my supply to run out (I have one box of Super, one of Regular, and one of Lights) so that I can go to the local co-op and buy all-natural unbleached numbers. More expensive, but I'd be much happier about not having bleached-with-what-dioxin?! tampons as my only choice.

As for wearing a pad at night... after the first night, I don't have significant bloodflow, and don't wear anything. Am I the only one?

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Weirdly, the only uncircumsized penis I've ever intimately known was on one of my high school boyfriends (parents were Indian, boys weren't routinely circumsized in their country), and it was also the smallest penis I've known as well. Four inches long and as big around as an adult man's index finger. So whenever I picture an uncircumsized dick, my mental image is always of a wee little one. (Pun intended, unlike eva's "Any way you slice it," which cracked me up regardless.)

He also had rather poor personal hygeine, like most teenage boys, and - - at least I assume this was the source of the odor -- piss tended to get trapped under the glans. So for you ladies reading others' wistful, loving accounts of uncut men they have known: it ain't all wine and roses. I like circumsized ones better. They're cleaner and all the good stuff is right out there in the open so you don't have to peel anything away to get to it.

Which isn't to say that those who prefer uncut are wrong, or that all, most, or even many uncut men are unable to wash their dicks, just that it's a very personal preference. (In fact, I can't imagine anything * more* personal.) I'm just saying don't look at your circumsized boyfriend and curse what you might be missing, because it's not necessarily something you'd like better.

By the way, if any anti-circumscision folks here start comparing routine circumcision of American boys to the routine genital infibulation performed on girls in some parts of Africa, I'm going to have a coronary. This argument always gets whipped out [hee hee hee -- sorry], with its proponents never seeming to realize that it would only be relevant if we were cutting off ENTIRE PENISES.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

That's a pretty bold conclusion, given the sample size.

:-)

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Okay, I should have said "not many men" would choose it, because men do convert to Judaism by choice and have who knows what else other reasons. I would guess you don't want to know your boss's reason, but I can't think of a single one besides religious or medical. I did know of a man who was circumcised in his 50s when he had some sort of Medical Issue.

Kim and I had two different experiences with our two different men, and now we have two different opinions about it. I have wondered if my generally crunch-granola attitude would be enough to make me think as I do even if I had never seen an intact man.

Now about scars on penises. Even if there's not an obvious mark, there is often (in my nonscientific sampling) a difference, farther down the shaft from the head than you would think, in skin color and skin texture. And if my one uncircumcised penis was typical (which it seems it was not), I should think a great deal of callousing would go on, significantly reducing sensation.

However, as Kim so rightly points out, unlike with female genital mutilation, male circumcision allows for plenty of sensation--and functionality, and health, and dignity, and human rights--left to go around.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

The only "bold" conclusion I came to was that an uncircumsized penis is not *always* better than a circumsized one; after seeing so many wax rhapsodic on the wonders of the foreskin, I thought I'd give the other half some props to balance things out.

It's weird that when subject comes up in real life (and oh yes, boys, it most certainly does) I'm usually the only one in the group who's done an uncircumsized guy, even though lots of the women I know have far more checkered pasts than I. Is it because Seattle is so lily- white? Are my friends Semitophiles? Who knows? I can't decide if, after this tidbit about me is uncovered, I am regarded as more sophisticated or merely sluttier.

When I was born, something like 90% of the male babies born in the US were circumsized, and now it's down to 50%. The numbers are dropping awfully quickly; I wonder if it's due in part to the fact that since the sixties, frank and open discussions like this one have become so common, and people realize that depriving their son of future sexual sensation is not worth the [murky, disputable] advantages that come from being cut. If I were to have a son, I most likely wouldn't have it done.

Ooh, Lisa, I never considered what adult male converts to Judaism must have to go through. I bet they don't invite the family to that particular bris. A female friend of mine was considering converting and one of the things she told me was that in order to convert to Judaism, you must petition three times (they will deny you on your first two attempts.) I imagined a Simpons-like moment: "Can I be a Jew?" "No!" "Please, can I be a Jew?" "NO!" "Aw, c'mon, I wanna be a Jew!" "Well.... okay. Shalom and stuff." I guess for guys there would be an appended last line: YOWCH!

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Uh, guys, I started a circumcision thread:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002whL

How's about we take this discussion there, since it has nothing to do with network servers or feminine hygiene products ...

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

One last comment on Playtex... fairly recently (a year, maybe?), they started making tampons with cardboard applicators, which makes me feel much better about the whole packaging/wasting plastic thing. And the Playtex cardboard applicators are smoother and better-shaped than the Tampax ones, IMHO.

-- Anonymous, April 10, 2000

Lordy, Gwen, you make me laugh. "Bale of cotton."

When i was younger my period would last for three little days. One light day, one half-day of medium, and then one light day.

Tra, la, la.

Then I went on the pill. It regulated me, all right. Regulated me to five days. Dammit. I liked those three little days. Of course, I never knew when they were coming, but still. It was nice.

Are any of you on Depro-provera (sp?)? Is it true it stops your period completely? Does that cause other side effects? Do you still have hormonal changes?

I'm not trying to sound as dumb as I sound, here.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

I have to admit this thread had me laughing my head off throughout, and nodding the whole time. I'm a tampon girl myself. Pads are horrid - they shift, they stick to places they shouldn't stick and remove hairs in the process, they're uncomfortable, they are never long enough, and do I really need to go into what happens to a pad during a very hot day.....or how 'comfortable' wearing a pad is when you ride a bike?

I'd never heard of tucking the string in either. Guess I'll have to try it. And I like the Instead, but it does tend to be a bit messy.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

In answer to Pamie's question about Depo. I tried it. I adored the fact that I had no period at all the entire time I was on it. I did *not* adore, however, the fact that not only did I gain 15 pounds, but I also became noticeably bitchier (friends were commenting, in other words). So sadly, I went off of it. The pill is nice - it got rid of that oh-so-fun suicidal depression each month, among other things, but darn it all, I still have the period. *Sniffle*. I would love to go back on Depo....

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Is OB like a brand or something?

Here is Australia I mostly use Libra fleur - non-applicator tampons. I like them because they expand side ways not length ways. Tampax I find basically suck for me - I am aware of them most of the time, have to change them way more often, and can't position them properly. On the other hand I still use them sometimes for the hygiene reason - if I'm using a public toilet and there's no soap for instance.

For years I only used the non-applicator type, because they were smaller and easier to get in, but once I had sex just once all that changed. That was one of the best things about having had sex the first time - the hymen was broken.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

You know, I shouldn't even post on this forum, because I get my period like less than four times a year. I actually miss it. But let's get this straight, I go through the mood swings, the "fuck-anything-in sight" for the few days before, the clumsiness, the chocolate urges, the depression, all that. I just get no blood. Nothing. It's upsetting in a way, because, and this is something I've never ever heard anyone admit: I like the smell. Yes, you heard me right. It. smells. good. I can't stand those commercials that talk about how it's a bad smell, and you're icky if you have it, because it's a *good* smell. It says that my body is working just great, and it's all fertile and stuff, and it's all me.

Now you may argue that I can like it because I'm not bleeding all over the place for 8 days out of 20, because I'm looking for a sign of returning health, and that would probably be a valid point. But when I was a teenager, I was doing that 8 out of 20 and I still thought it was a great smell.

So I love pads. Not only do you get that comfy diaper feeling, you also get to sort of sink down into the oily skin and strong body odor and just sort of relax for a few days (of course at a larger remove from the general public than ordinarily, since I realize that other people would probably not enjoy the smell of glorious me during that time.)

As long as we're delving into WWTMI (Way, way too much info) kind of situation, when I started my periods and was so heavy, my mom had me use those belted napkin thingis, and the thing I absolutely hated worst about those was that after the third day, with five still more to go, I would get this serious rugburned spot in my asscrack just below the tailbone. Paaainful.

There was another serious menstruation on another forum on Chickclick, was that what inspired this one? That other forum not only taught me about the Keeper, it seriously inspired me to buy one. Though I haven't yet - buying it would be sort of a hopeful thing - more like a keep it for a rainy day kind of way. (oh, my, better let sleeping dogs lie)

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Jenipurr: I had the *same* experience with the Depo. Would not do it again though.

Gwen: glad you brought up the "bale of cotton" issue. Has any other moms found a difference with tampon use after having kids? Sad to say, I only use my fave OB's every so often. Sometimes I have the hardest time getting them in right... must be from all that scarring. (Sorry if you're currently pregnant and reading that and it scares you!)

One of the worst moment I ever had was my mom buying a box of 72 No- Name brand (in the Big Yellow Box with Bold Black letters) when i was about 14 and with her at the supermarket. And yes, they needed to do a price check. THe best pads I had were (gasp!) washable terrycoth ones I uses after having the last kid. Those were very comfy. But most fo the time I hate the sticky, rustley ones.

As for the smell issue, my hubby says I smell different during ovulation. Of course, he really *really* likes it... As for those other times, not that I *like* it, but it just smells so earthy or something.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

For me, some of hte heaviest times are at night so no way can I not use anything then.

One thing that's changed over the years is that now it does this annoying thing where it seems like it's all over, like a whole day of nothing, then oops, one more day. Yet another reason why I always carry around a bunch of products with me.

I don't like the smell at all.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Answer to Pamie.

I went on depo once. I bled constantly the whole time I was on the shot. And after I stopped, I bled for another month. I have heard people who have positive experiences. Mine was horrible.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Did anyone else see the fascinating NYer article about the invention of the Pill?

One of the most interesting issues it raised was about research that might be indicating it is healthier NOT to ovulate/bleed every month. (The pill was designed by a Catholic in an unsuccessful attempt to make it acceptable to the Catholic church by mimicking the already- accepted rhythm method.)

Women aren't meant to have a period a month for ten to twenty years in a row the way we do now... most pre-BC women would average only a couple periods a year because of pregnancy and nursing.

My gyno told me she thought it was a perfectly safe and healthy option to just skip the sugar pills most months so I would have a period only a few times a year. If I was able to tolerate BC pills without getting migraines, I'd be *all over* that suggestion.

re: staunching method - I'm a tampon user from my very first period. I came of age in the pads-with-belt era and there was NO way I was dealing with those. Now I use Tampax. Tried others, didn't like 'em. Pads are a necessary evil that save me from overflow issues on the heavy day.

What an interesting thread this is!

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

It makes sense that women before the Pill generation didn't have a period every month, what with nutrition and all, but do women who aren't on the Pill (or Depo P etc.) now have monthly periods? Is that because of nutrition, or because they're all in sync with us in that weird pheromone convent way?

My actual question is, if you don't have a period every month, because of DP or whatever, how do you know if you're pregnant? Not having that assurance every 28 days (or, when I was off the pill, no more than 35 days) would make me batshit. It seems so risky! I would buy a pregnancy test every month if I didn't have to buy a box of tampons.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Im a tampax girl - definatly. I put up with pads until i was about 16 and then I tried tampax and decided they were for me. A very early note meantioned how the girl had tried tampons when at camp - I did that too. And yes, we had the same thing of about 4 of us yelling at each other from the stalls and one reading out instructions. K - non- applicator (tampets) tampons are way to awkard for me.

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Most of the time, I simply use a Kotex light day pantiliner. My periods usually last 1-2 days, and not much ick factor. Every couple of months I bleed a little more than usual, so use Tampax slender regulars. I too, tuck. But I have never heard of cups. Where do you find them? I have a good guy gross-out story. A co-worker told us this at our lunch break. She went to her gyn. complaining about a foul oder. Before he examined her, he asked her a few questions. When was her last period? "About three weeks ago." Had she been regularly sexually active with her husband? "Oh yes." Finally he examined her. Diagnosis... He found not one, but two lost tampons. She thought it was sooo funny that she could have forgotten TWO. And my last tampon story. Way back when I was still unhappily married, I had to take my hisband to the emergency room for what turned out to be bruised ribs. As we were sitting ther, we became aware that several doctors were quickly leaving one side of the emergency room and walking around a partition. When they got to the other side, they would invariably double up with silent laughter. We were then put into a cubicle to wait for the doctor. It was quite the mystery, until they led a patient into the cubicle next to ours. We then heard the VERY large black woman tell the doctor her story. It seems that she had a cold, and her nose would not stop running. In a flash of brilliance, she stuck an O.B. up each nostril, where they expanded and became lodged to the point that she could not remove them herself. Imagine the sight of a woman, about 350 pounds, with two strings dangling from her nose! My ex laughed so hard, he hurt his ribs even more! What a night!

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

I think Depo reacts differently to different people, and you don't know how it's gonna come out on you until you try it. I've had it blissfully easy, the only side effects being discharge (YUCK, but beats periods) and supposedly my scrawny legs and breasts filling out a bit more (according to my ex, I sure can't tell). I haven't gained weight, but I've heard that's from increased appetite, and I can't say mine has improved more than its usual amount. It takes between 6 months to a year to get rid of periods (most people) on Depo. I had no period for two months after getting my first shot, then had a tew-week period, then about a period a month-ish, lighter and lighter, tillthey were basically gone by end of summer/start of fall or so.

As for the pregnancy worry: sheesh, the failure rate's 0.3 percent, I'm not going to worry about it! And I figure if I did end up pregnant, there _are_ other signs of pregnancy besides period. And some odd women manage to have a period after getting pregnant, so that isn't quite the guarantee either...

-- Anonymous, April 11, 2000

Apologies to Beth and everyone else for accidentally veering this forum way off course. I had no idea that the circumcision topic would take off like that; honestly, I was halfway certain that no one would even respond.

Beth, thanks for these forums--I haven't had so much fun since my senior class went cow tipping!

Celia, I like your ideal world, but you neglected to mention the hour-long massages and the copious supplies of chocolate in all imaginable forms. And maybe a nice hot water spring to soak in....

Kay, yes, OB is a brand of tampon, nonapplicator like the Libras (which I'd never heard of until people mentioned them on this thread). Who knows, they may even be the same thing but given different names and packaging in different countries? (Kind of like Mars/Snickers in England/the States.)

My blood flow is also typically lighter at night, and I can stop wearing a pad at night sooner than during the days. The last few years, though, I've developed an annoying tendency to start my period around 3 in the morning.

This may well fall under WWTMI, but I have noticed variations--subtle, but noticeable to me--in smell during different stages of my period and even from one period to the next. Some periods have more of an iron smell than others; the rest of the variances I don't have descriptive words for, but I can tell the difference. I guess it's the same as having different types of flow from period to period. (You all do that, right? Some periods are more "chunky" than others, some involve redder blood, etc.? Please tell me I'm not the only one who doesn't have perfectly similar periods every single month.)

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Wait, Jill... can you explain that bit about skipping the placebo pills and not getting your period? Do you just start the next set of hormone laden pills again? That sounds fascinating.

Not particularly safe or healthy, but fascinating.

I suppose I should add my 2". I use pads. The Stayfree UltraThin ones that are like made of peat moss or something. I hate tampons. They're horribly uncomfortable.

As for the tucking/peeing on the string thing. I seem to recall that your own urine isn't dangerous to you. I think I read that in conjunction with genital piercings. Of course, there's still the string dangling in the water issue that's kinda sick.

I wouldn't want to be on Depo... I like knowing that my body is working and that I'm not pregnant. But having a period every two months would be a nic

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

String dangling in the water thing??? Good god... how long would the string have to be to go fishing like that???

-A

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Regarding skipping the placebo pills ... I've been told by more than one doctor that this does no harm whatsoever. You just finish one pack on Friday and start the next pack the same day (my packs don't have placebo pills at all - they just trust me to remember to take the pill again a week later, and I've not forgotten so far). I have successfully avoided a period for three months at a time, but this would only work if your flow is very light to begin with, because at some point you're going to have to let it out!! These days though I tend to bleed every month, mainly to get into the habit of it again so it won't piss me off too much when I stop taking the pill some time soon.

As far as not knowing whether you're pregnant or not is concerned, the period you have when on the pill isn't a real period, and is no evidence of not being pregnant - the bleeding is just a result of stopping taking the hormones. If you stopped mid-way through a package you'd bleed. This is why people sometimes take the pill for months on end and then find out they're pregnant anyway, even though they'd still continued bleeding every month.

Another pill-related fact told to me by my doctor is that there is no lasting effect on your fertility if you take the pill continuously for a few years and then try to get pregnant. His words were 'if your periods were regular before, and there is no history of fertility problems in your family, you can expect for your body to be flushed of the effects of the pill within a month of finishing taking it. So don't stop taking it unless you're sure!'

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

I use Instead. Before that I went through trying just about everything else. OB was the usually the choice because I never got the hang of applicators either for whatever reason. Always felt the tampon afterward and worried the whole damn time I had it placed wrong and it was going to leak.

I love Insteads because they slip in just like a diaphragm and I love the fact there is no string and I have no problems with leaks. It does take practice, but so worth it in my book. As for any mess -- anyone with a shred of decency should clean up after themselves. Ick.

While on this topic -- why the heck are they using men in the new Akways ads? Somehow a man in a kilt doesn't give me the urge to try the product.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Back to the women in BC days... I can see how with all the childbearing and all it would cut back on periods, but for those who were childless or unmarried, weren't their cycles more in tune with the moon?

Frankly, I rather like the idea of going off in a hut for a few days....

In another aside, I am Pill free, and my cycle seems to run every 5-6 weeks. This might sound silly, but one of the ways I know I'm not pregnant, is I don't *feel* pregnant. For all the others I got morning sickness from conception.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Ok, I'll admit that I'm a total neophyte when it comes to birth control. In the 25 years I've been around, I've somehow managed to avoid having sex with anyone... So it just hasn't been an issue.

However, that's going to change in a fairly short amount of time. (After all, I'm getting married and all... heh.) So, I'm a little baffled about the whole birth control thing. Condoms will probably be the first thing we'll use, but I'd like to get on the Pill - for several reasons.

First, my period isn't all that regular. It comes every 25-31 days. Granted, it's not that big of a range, but I'd like to know exactly when it was coming. Second, my periods are really heavy and miserable... and long. I bleed for a whole seven days, and then there is two or three more days of "trailing off" when the dregs come out. I am *so* like, "Let's get the OVER with already..." ;)

And thirdly... I've read several studies that have shown that women who bleed for their entire fertile window (puberty to menopause) are much MUCH more likely to have breast cancer. I have no/zero/zilch intention of having kids, so that will probably be me. The studies have shown that women who were on the Pill, however, have a lower risk of breast cancer - something to do with the hormones in the Pill mimicing pregnancy.

Of course, after I read one of those studies, the next day I'll see one that says the Pill increases the risk for breast cancer. Augh! Which is it? If anyone has heard similar studies, one way or the other, I'd really like to know. Of course, this all may be moot - I may not be able to take the Pill because of my health history. =(

Anyway... Back to what I was saying... Condoms will be first, but I'm not too excited about using those for extended periods of time. (Drugstore guy: Oh, having sex again, I see... ;D ) Depo really isn't an option - I've read about it and I can't take it. Pill? Diaphram (and I don't have a gyno, so I don't know how I could get one of those...)? Jumping up and down after having sex? Help!

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

I use Insteads religiously since they came out. I even bought a 2 year supply when I was scared they were going out of business. I find that the better the product, the messier your hands get. I used to use OB's. But the mess is way worth it. I'd much rather have it on my hands when I'm near toilet paper and a bathroom sink, then on my clothes. I love that I can put it in BEFORE I take a shower. No more rushing to dry off and get a tampon in before it's too late.

As for backup, which I only need on the first two days because I'm lazy and push my luck with wear times, I use inSync Miniforms (http:// www.afem.com/insync.html). No more pantyliner wedgies, no more having the one small spot always miss the pantyliner no matter where i put it, no more pantyliner adhesive sticking to my body, etc.... They're also great for that last day when using a tampon or instead is really overkill.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

ok this is re; the name issue of different products. Here (Ireland) we have tampons and pads, Im not sure about the cups or the other things you mentioned but we dont have them. The main brands are the same, though no Playtex - and the only non-applicator tampons are made by Tampax and called Tampax Tampets.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Here are some URL's for various products that may not be universally available in stores, but you can get them on the net!!!!:

For InSync Miniforms: http://www.afem.com/ insync.html

For Instead Cups: http://www.ultrafem.com

For the Keeper: http:// www.thekeeperstore.com/keeper/index.htm

For OB Tampons: http:// www.obtampons.com/nfmy_product/ob/index.html

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Wow I seem to be the only woman here who PREFERS the expanding lengthways to widthways thing. I don't like non-applicator tampons (OB) becuase they are shorter and wider. When they expand fully to deal with my heavy first-days of periods I can feel'em.

also, always are nasty because they are nonbreathing plastic, along with the sieve effect, they don't let enough air circulate, leaving the whole area sweaty. air circulation outside the body is a good thing. however, inside: and regarding someone's comment about cups keeping rotting menstrual fluid in you, I would guess that they should be airtight (someone later referred to the suction effect, a natural resulat of a vacuum). No air=no bacteria to breed.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

To Atara: I'm just so surprised that you don't have a gyn -- it has nothing to do with having sex or not, it's just a good healthy thing for yourself.

And PLEASE do not rely on condoms. If you've never had the opportunity to use them, you may turn out to be allergic or sensitive to the latex and believe me you don't want to deal with THAT on your honeymoon.

Given your firm stance against children, it's better to discuss with a doctor who has examined you what kind of birth control would be best for you and your new husband.

j

PS to the person who asked about the Pill and cancer risks: the pill can protect you from certain kinds of cancer but once you hit the magic age (30 or so) if you smoke, your chances of breast cancer increase. Conversely, if you smoke & don't take the pill - your chances of ovarian cancer increase per the doctors of my mom's sister (died of breast cancer at 36) and my dad's sister (died of ovarian cancer at 47).

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

The idea was that fertile pre-BC women who weren't using some other method didn't have many periods because they were almost always either pregnant or nursing. Long nursing times meant they'd only get pregnant every few years. Sure, if they weren't fertile, or didn't get pregnant they'd bleed monthly.

The article said that the changes breast tissue undergoes when you have a period is what can cause cancer - any time there is a lot of new cell activity, you run the risk of cancer. With the pill, the cancer-suppressing hormone content cancels out the increased risk from monthly bleeding.

There is no build-up problem with going without a period for a long time. You just don't sluff the uterine lining because there is no need to do so.

I'm no expert on this subject, btw. I just read this one article. The best bit is there is a new sort of bc being researched that will mimic menopause (no periods) rather than pregnancy (which is what the Pill does now.) They are trying to find the right balance of hormones so that you don't get the ill effects of menopause - brittle bones, dry pussy etc.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

I adore the new Always ads. But then I'm a sucker for a man in a kilt.

But yeah, they've got absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Still really cute though.

Wait... they should have the men WEARING the pads... no wait, that's not possible... with that whole lack of underwear below the kilt.

OK, shutting up now

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

about the no-periods being good for you thing. there is a book called "Why We Get Sick" by Nesse and someone else that is all about evolutionary medicine that explains all of that quite nicely. Pre-BC women would be mostly pregnant and nursing, and otherwise malnourished and wouldn't bleed very often. So yes, having our own hormones working every month seems to contribute to some cancers and also seems to advance aging. being on the pill cuts down on cervical and ovarian cancers, but doesn't seem to stop breast cancers.

that is what i know :)

and i use the keeper but am considering going off it because of the ways that internal cups can bruise the vagina and cervix (what with the vacuum and the pressure). i hate pads (too messy, too big). i used to use ob and have written a big thing about all my various adventures with menstrual products as part of my All About My Vagina site.

And, lovely forum! Glad to see the girly issues out there.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 2000

Word on the condom issue.

Yes. Yes. Yes. You have no idea if you might be allergic to latex condoms. Trust me: your first time, make sure you have a few different brands. You'll thank me later. There's nothing worse than the burn on nonoxydol-9 on your first time. And your second and your third because you assume that's what sex feels like. Yo.

-- Anonymous, April 13, 2000

I always used to find it astounding that people knew when their period was coming, as mine always came as a huge surprise every month--I would know about an hour or so beforehand, but other than that, like toothache, I don't think about it when I ain't got it.

I mean, I know some women who always get their period on Thursdays or something.

Then, I decided to count and found out that I get my period every three weeks and two or three days. This is not fair. This means that I get my period like fifteen or sixteen times a year. A friend of mine once told me that she had her period only every six weeeks, so I was having her leftover periods against my will.

-- Anonymous, April 13, 2000

>Diaphram (and I don't have a gyno, so I don't know how I could get >one of those...)?

Atara: If you are interested in the diaphragm, which is pretty damn good and even better of you use condoms, Planned Parenthood can usually do an exam and fitting. I used the diaphragm before I met my husband and and I really liked it.

Back to the commercials....thinking of the men wearing the always made my laugh out loud! Love it!

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2000

>Diaphram (and I don't have a gyno, so I don't know how I could get >one of those...)?

Atara: If you are interested in the diaphragm, which is pretty damn good and even better of you use condoms, Planned Parenthood can usually do an exam and a diaphragm fitting. I used the diaphragm before I met my husband and and I really liked it.

Back to the commercials....thinking of the men wearing the always made my laugh out loud! Love it!

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2000

Yeah sorry for the spaz-out. Tried to change the fact I chumped out on the name because I was talking to him. ugh

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2000

I so agree with Pamie on the condom issue.

After sex I use to lay in bed just burning. Totally in pain. I use to get ice water and splash it on myself to stop the burning. It hurt so bad. Turns out I am allergic to latex condoms. And the funny thing is I use to have to wear latex gloves at one of my old part time jobs. My hands would crack and get really red and irritated. Think of what those condoms were doing to my poor insides! Luckily they now make several different varieties of condoms. Sex shouldn't hurt like hell or make you burn after.

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2000

Wow! what a great thread! I've had a great time reading it all! I could never use tampons, I dont bleed enough so even the minis after a whole day feel like pain coated in sandpaper. Does anyone else find that when they insert they get this unbelievable agony that starts around the cervix and spreads though your lower abdomen like white fire? thats why I dont use them. I use panty liners for about 3 days and that is enough. they fit in G-strings which is the most important thing! (I am working on a design for gstring pads but for now I cope with Libra fleur) I am also allergic to Condoms but thankfully I dont have to use them!

-- Anonymous, April 16, 2000

a word on the evil Depo Provera... What the doctors tell you is a lie. it is not like the pill once you are on it - thats it. if you are thinking of going on it my advice is to get a blood test done and your hormone levels checked and recorded. then look closely at the cautions - migranes, asthma, everything like that. if you are sure you want to take it demand the pill form first. it is available and it wont screw your system. Let me tell you my story...

I was sick of taking the pill (arent we all!) so I thought depo would be convenient and help with my IBS (similar symptoms to endometriosis in my case) so I asked my doctor about it and he gave me a script. I thought ok, he obviously would know. half an hour after the injection I collapsed. I fainted and when I came back to conciousness I couldn't move or breathe. my boyfriend freaked and drove me to the hospital. I cant remember what happened, I drifted in and out of conciousness a lot. they said to go home and it should wear off. in a dayish (blurry) I could walk but I was still fainting. one month later I was still fainting up to 50 times a day, periodically having pain in my head and numbness down half my body. I was in and out of tests and hospitals for 3 months, I had a stream of gps, neurologists, psychiastrists and a gaggle of nurses following me around and my boyfriend at my side constantly. I am happy for his help because I wouldn't have made it without him. I gained 20 kilograms, massive oedema, asthma problems and couldn't function. I dont remember christmas that year. I dont remember my birthday. I dont remember anything except for tests and a feeling of self loathing and depression. when I got towards 4 months I started beaing glad that it would be over, sure enough my periods started again but the fainting only lessened. Nearly 3 years on I am still fainting, my hormones are a complete mess and they still dont know what happened to me. I had tests from epilepsy to strokes to tumors. I am on a natropathic hormonal stabilizer (I recommend it to anyone who is having hormonal issues ask me and I'll tell you all about it) and epilepsy medication (I dont have epilepsy - it was a coincidence tht I was put on this for something else and found it helped) I'm not nuts, I'm not making it up. Depo provera was the stupidest thing I've ever done. I cant sue because it counts as my choice but I can tell everyone, please try all the options before this and please check everything out. I went to the site at www.depoprovera.com and was horrified. I had every known bad reaction and a few new ones. I know I am probably unusual but that is no reason to not make sure that you are as aware as possible. if you have had something similar happen or know someone who has I would be interested in hearing as I am still very confused.

sorry for the long post.

-- Anonymous, April 16, 2000

Everyone who has mentioned skipping periods by skipping the sugar pills seems to be all in favor of this idea. My periods aren't especially heavy but I've tried skipping once or twice and I always end up feeling premenstrual for 2 months afterward. Last time I skipped was the month before my wedding and at a time when I should be elated and glowing I felt bloated and cranky. Not nice.

I have to agree with the pro-sideways swell issue on tampons. I tried tampax applicator tampons for a while and as soon as they started swelling lengthways I'd feel like the thing was about to fall out... I think tampax are the only applicator variety available here in Australia. Brands of what you guys are calling OBs include things like Meds, Libra Fleur, Carefree, Cottons and Du Jour which are my fave because they come in a zip-lock bag instead of a cardboard box which breaks and spills your tampons everywhere. I hate the add for them tho. The premise is a chick is desperate for a tampon, finds one in the bottom of her bag and because its been rolling around loose in there the cellophane wrapper has broken and the tampon isn't hygenic anymore. What I hate about it is the chick is so thin my first thought was "As if she even has a period!"

I'd also like to know why none of the amazing pad technology (wings, anti-scrunch fillings, etc) has ever been applied to panty-liners. Nothing worse than having a day when your flow doesn't justify a tampon so you put in a liner and it scrunches and leaks all through your underwear. Yuck.

-- Anonymous, April 16, 2000

I just saw some tampons made from unbleached cotton, etc., in a natural products catalog. But of course they were twice as expensive as OBs, even.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

i've seen pantiliners with wings. not sure what "anti-scrunch fillings" are, though...?

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

re: using two packs of birth control pills in a row, skipping the placebos or rest period

- I would hope that one would only consider such a thing if they were using a monophasic form of the pill. These days many pills alter the dose of estrogen and/or progestin during the cycle. Abrubtly changing from the end of cycle dose to the beginning of cycle dose could be problematic. For example, the Estrostep pill increases the level of estrogen gradually during the cycle. Abruptly decreasing the level without the rest period could present an increased risk of ovulation.

- And... placebos do not generally contain sugar. They're not "sugar pills."

You should definitely consult your physician before trying something like this.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Dave, may I ask what source you're basing this information on?

The way you have explained it, it doesn't make any sense--how is going from the high, late-cycle hormone dose directly to the low, early- cycle hormone dose worse than going from the high dose to no dose, as one would do when using the sugar pills?

And while it is true that "sugar pills" do not contain sugar, I think that it is actually a more appropriate term for the inactive pills thank placebo. A placebo is technically something which contains no medicine, but which is designed to make the user think that they are taking something medicinal, as is done in "blind" drug studies. But I think that niggling over what term to use is kind of like criticizing someone for referring to an RC Cola as a Coke.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Jen Wade has a point. For the most part, there isn't any real risk in skipping the "sugar" pills and moving straight on to the "real" medication. Birth control pills work, essentially, because the body believes it's already pregnant (hence the puffy breasts, weight gain, nausea, and all of the other side fx of pregnancy). All you're doing by going right into the next cycle of pills is keeping the level of hormones in the body at a level such that sloughing off of endometrial tissue isn't necessary.

This of contraception method is used to treat endometriosis with a fairly high degree of success. (And boy, is it great to not have a period for two years running!)

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Jen: You're the one niggling over which term to use. I was simply pointing out they don't contain any sugar, which is a somewhat commonly held misconception.

I'll agree "inactive pills" is more appropriate than placebo. Well niggled.

Gwen: It is irresponsible to advise that others go ahead and use their pills back to back without consulting a physician, given that they may be taking different pills than you did.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

... and, are you saying that you took regular birth control pills for two years straight and had no bleed through? That would be unusual.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Dave, why exactly are you so interested in and allegedly knowledgeable about this topic? And why should the women reading this forum listen to you instead of to other women who actually, you know, take birth control pills and have periods?

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

It may surprise you to learn, Beth, that just taking a pill doesn't make you knowledgeable about it. Last I heard they didn't teach medical students about all the different drugs out there by making them take each one.

Imagine that. Maybe they should start. You know, so those doctors know what they are talking about.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

But that wasn't my question, Dave. My question was why should we listen to you? You aren't a doctor or a medical professional of any kind, are you? I'd rather listen to someone who at least has anecdotal experience than listen to someone who has no apparent qualifications except for a willingness to play devil's advocate on any topic imaginable.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Yes, Dave, I did go two years with no bleed thru not once but twice. And I'm still here to tell the tale and reproductively viable. It's not all that unusual. I've known other women who do this as well for a variety of reasons (timing, scheduling, just plain not wanting to deal with it that month, whatever).

When I got married, my period was scheduled to fall two days prior to the ceremony. My doctor was the one who suggested I just start the other pill pack immediately. Per him, there are no real long term side effects.

My apologies to all for not taking this to email.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Jeez, is it wrong to recommend one consult with their doctor before doing this? I suspect not all birth control pills are suitable, and feel strongly that the Estrostep in particular is unsuitable. I admit this is just based on my (considerable ;-) general knowledge. Nowhere have I stated otherwise. Perhaps I'll dig a little later and see if I can turn something up, or give my reasoning.

Just a quick search turned up this page. This doctor also said "consult your physician." Gee, I wonder why? That's the exact advice I gave.

(And I also noticed this medical professional called the inactive pills "placebos." Hmmmm.)

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

>>Gwen: It is irresponsible to advise that others go ahead and use their pills back to back without consulting a physician, given that they may be taking different pills than you did. <<

Perhaps I missed something, but Gwen didn't post any suggestions re: taking pills back to back. In fact, I didn't either. What I did say is that can be done.

Back off, Dave. It's not necessary for you to be an authority on a woman's body, particularly when you don't possess one.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

Gena you're right, Men just cant posses empathy for a womans body. ok ok ick story... I went for a smear test with a male GP, anyway, he's doing the biz then catches on something. he starts tugging away and says "oh are you wearing an IUD?" to which I say no because I never have and never will- so he tugs some more (this is excruciatingly painful BTW I am telling him so) and says "oh are you sure?" I'm pretty fed up by this stage and tell him that I think I would know and that really hurts if you dont mind, so he tugs some more! and goes oh "oh well" and gives one last YANK and finishes up. ever since then I have used female doctors. usually I'm not choosy but at least a woman knows how it feels.

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

RE: Insync miniforms: I have to admit that even after reading the afem.com page I don't understand what holds them in place. You just stick them between your labia? What happens if you like to sit cross-legged with your knees apart, or if you do the splits (admittedly less likely) -- don't they just fall on out? I'm a little skeptical of a product that doesn't have any apparent method of adhering to the body or undergarments. I've had to do the little-wad-of-tissue routine when my period started unexpectedly and I didn't have any protection on me, and it was massively uncomfortable and prone to slippage. Anyone brave enough to have both used the Insyncs *and* want to share their thoughts with the class?

There was a lot of talk on alt.wedding back when I was a regular about skipping spacer pills (that's how the enclosed literature in my Ortho pill pack refers to the little green ones) in order to prevent menstruation. The women who had tried it who were also prone to PMS said that the weeks following the skipped period were effectively similar to being premenstrual: irritability, bloating, and breast tenderness. Or so reported several brides who, in an attempt to be muck-free on their wedding days and honeymoons, actually undermined their own enjoyment. Just another data point.

....................................................

-- Anonymous, April 17, 2000

I've been on the pill since I was 18 (I'm now 25), and it's been fairly high-dose all that time, in the hopes of sorting my at times troublesome skin out. I've frequently gone for a year at a time with only a couple of periods because I've skipped the sugar pills (yes, Dave, calm down - you know what I mean by sugar pills, and I can't be bothered scrolling back to see what you've decreed we should call them).

I've never had any PMT at all - the only symptom of imminent bleeding for me is a slightly sore stomach the night before. So not bleeding hasn't had any PMT problems for me. I've only had breakthrough bleeding once, after skipping the sugar pills for about six months in a row.

My doctor has also suggested I run pill packets together in this way - particularly when flying between NZ and England (because the time difference makes calculating when to take the pill a little complex). I've also read more than one article advising that there are no risks associated with doing this.

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2000

Dave, I didn't say anything about birth control pills. Please read more carefully next time. I'm sure if you look around elsewhere, you'll find posts of mine to refute. You don't need to attribute Gena's posts to me.

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2000

I too have been told that skipping the 7 day break (I have 21 day packs) between packets is completely harmless. In fact, I was told that if I miss one of the last 7 of the pills or take it too late, then I *must* go striaght on to the next pack. And going back to the FHP discussion, here (Ireland) we have Lilets which are non-app and are basically identical to o.b.s and Tampax both with and without applicator. There are also lots of store own- brands both with and without applicator. I am 100% non-app all the way - that tucking idea is ingenious - I never thought there was anything that could be done about a wet string!!!! Oh yeah, does anybody know what o.b. stands for?

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2000

The o.b. tampon went on the German market in 1950. It probably stands for something German, or perhaps the inventor's kids' names or something like that.

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2000

A brief lesson in organic chemistry for Dave:

The "inactive" pills in every brand I've ever tried are made of lactose. In much the same way as for mannose, glucose and fructose the "ose" at the end of the word denotes that the molecule is a monosaccharide, or in more generic terms a simple sugar.

While it is correct to say that sugar pills contain no sugar in the sense of sucrose, the table sugar we know and love, they still do contain a sugar, hence the origins and my use of the term "sugar pill" originally.

*bows* :)

Kate

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2000

That was such a nice try, Kate. Unfortunately for you I aced all my organic chemistry courses when i attended university. The "ose" at the end of the word, as you put it, does not denote that the molecule is a monosaccharide. Sucrose, for example, is a disaccharide.

In fact, lactose is also a disaccharide. It is not a simple sugar.

If you're going to give a lesson you might want to get it right.

Further, it seems to me that lactose would be a bad choice were they to use sugar, given that many people have adverse reactions to it.

In the product descriptions I've read, when they said the pills were inert, they meant it. ie, not sugar. (Of course there could be some that do contain sugar - I'm no expert.)

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2000

Re skipping periods via the miracle of the pill: This is a very common treatment for endometriosis. The general time limit is usually for six months, but I've known doctors to keep women on this regimen much longer if they're getting positive results. It didn't work for me, but it does work for many, many women. (And for that matter, the particular treatment that worked for me doesn't work for everyone.)

We all vary greatly in what types of medication work for us and which side effects we suffer. Hormonal medications are no different, which is why, for instance, some people do well on Depo Provera and others don't and a few have horrific experiences. I hope someday the medical profession will get a better handle on this. Just recently I heard a news story indicating that with the increased understanding of genetics, doctors are starting to be able to predict who will respond best to which asthma medications and at what dosage. Perhaps this will eventually become standard with all medications.

At any rate, I wouldn't suggest that anyone regularly skip periods using the pill without clearing it with your doctor first, in case there are particular concerns specific to your own medical history. But in general, it's not considered hazardous and is in fact standard medical treatment for endometriosis and other disorders.

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2000

When the doctor gave me the prescription for my pills she did check for concerns specific to my medical history. I was concerned about risks associated with the pill, and she assured me it was perfectly safe for me to take the pill, since I have no health problems. (She also insulted my intelligence by explaining that the pill did not protect against AIDs and other STDs. I had to laugh.)

I don't see why I should check with her again, given that so many doctors have said it's perfectly safe to use them back-to-back, and that it's standard treatment for so many other things. Why bother?

I think I'll be skipping my next period. I'll let you know how it goes.

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

Susan, how come you're posting from Dave Van's office? Do you know him? What's he like in person?

Nice try, Dave. Knock it off.

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

So you're not the slightest bit worried? I thought it would have been hilarious to post a follow-up in a few months telling how I was pregnant because it turns out my particular pill wasn't suitable for this usage...

By the way: o.b. stands for the German words, ohne binde, meaning "without pad"

But let's face it, you'd rather remain ignorant that hear it from me. I'm outta here...

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

No, Dave, I'd rather hear it from my doctor than from some random guy on the internet. But thanks for playing.

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

I agree, Beth, that Dave's statements here are utterly lacking in credibility, but I wouldn't that this is because he's not a doctor. Lots of doctors are misinformed about various medical issues, and many non-doctors are well-informed about such issues.

I was open to accepting Dave's statement that triphasic pills used contiguously raised the risk of pregnancy, but the reasoning he gave for this statement didn't make any sense, and then he was unable to cite any medical literature backing this statement up.

Posing as a woman in the hopes that the occurrance of ONE unplanned pregnancy under these circumstances would convince us all that this contraceptive method is inefficient is not just duplicitous--it's an insult to the intelligence of everyone who reads this forum.

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

As for lactose in spacer pills, this page says that only one major-market brand doesn't use lactose in their pills. I would guess that since the pills are so small, though, that it's not a problem for people unless they have severe lactose allergies, which are very rare.

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

Oh, save it, Jen. You're not Beth's doctor, are you? She doesn't want to hear this kind of thing from random people on the internet. Personal anecdotes only, please. (That was tongue in cheek, btw. :-)

I must say this is highly amusing. Above you stated:
And while it is true that "sugar pills" do not contain sugar, I think that it is actually a more appropriate term for the inactive pills than placebo

I noticed at the Searle site they said:
Each pink tablet in the Demulen 1/50-28 package is a placebo containing no active ingredients

Somebody should tell them what the more appropriate term is, the poor, dumb bastards.

In fact, literature all over the place, including the page you cited, calls them placebos. Nobody seems to know what the more appropriate term is.

And yeah, it seems lactose is commonly used in drug manufacture, in both the active pills and the spacer pills. I stand corrected on that count. (I'm surprised - if they were going to use sugar, why wouldn't they use sucrose, which is used in some pills, and is so much "safer" than lactose?)

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

y'know, at one point, this was a fun little forum. i'm just saying, is all....

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

Ah, heck. I was just going to leave it at that, but I'm too angry.

Dave, I'm really glad Beth outed your little Suzie Q before I responded and made an idiot of myself. Because I would've clarified that I meant checking not for general use of the pill but specifically for continual use, regardless of prior medical history or previous discussions with physicians. That said, there will always, always be people who ignore, disregard, circumvent, etc. etc. their doctor's advice or otherwise do stupid things healthwise. I would love to stop these people, but I can't.

And guess what? Taking the pill AS DIRECTED is dangerous. That's right, as directed. And I'm not talking unexpected pregnancies, although that does happen occasionally even with proper use. I'm talking blood clots, heart attacks, strokes, fun stuff like that. Check out the adverse effects in the PDR if you don't believe me. It may be a small percentage, but each and every woman who takes the pill (or Norplant or Depo Provera) is making a calculated bet that she won't be one of the 1 or 3 or 5%.

If we make that calculated bet on a daily basis, why worry about whether we're taking it up one more notch by choosing to chuck the sugar pills? And why act like we're all incapable of making that decision on our own?

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

I'm sorry Brenda, I didn't mean to make you angry. I only posted that Susan C thing to hopefully get somebody to clarify, as you just did, that one should consult with their physician regardless. That was all it was meant to accomplish, and I don't really understand why Beth felt the need to out me.

Beth has had more than her fill of me, I suppose. One has to admire her patience. All I can say is that when I posted that original "consult your physician/they're not sugar pills" thing I didn't mean to start a big controversy. I really have no idea why people want to argue about everything I say. Everything.

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

I am tempted to just delete the last series of posts, but I think this has to be said, and probably it needs to be said publicly.

Dave, the last time you pulled your little fake name stunt, I told you I would delete any future posts posted in a deliberate attempt to conceal your identity or make people think you were someone other than Dave Van. I don't mind if people post here anonymously, but I do mind the sort of juvenile crap you've been pulling since day one with your Big Joe persona.

As I noted in another topic, I voted in your poll, and I voted for you to stick around. That was in spite of our past problems. I'd like to change my vote. You are no longer welcome here, because I don't have time to babysit you. I know that nothing I will say will change your belief that you are a victim and that everyone just picks on you, but it's not my job to change your mind. It is my job, I suppose, to keep you from driving every other user away from this board.

I have no doubt that you will make up a fake name and continue to post here -- your e-mail to me today in which you admitted that you were thinking about your new identity proves that -- and I confess that I will probably not catch you, at least not right away. I don't have time to check the IP address of every single user, and I have no interest in doing so. The people who post on this board frequently disagree with one another, sometimes heatedly, but only you feel the need to disguise your identity to make fools of other users, pound your point into the ground long after everyone else has lost interest, disrupt friendly discussions to nit pick and play the know it all, and otherwise make an unmitigated nuisance of yourself.

The discussions on this board have gone along for the most part without any need for me to moderate. You, quite frankly, create too much work for me. I repeat, you are no longer welcome here. Please find another forum.

-- Anonymous, April 19, 2000

Dave, all posts that are obviously from you that come through the anonymizer will be summarily deleted. Please take your stupid games elsewhere.

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2000

(Sorry, everyone. The good news is that posts sent through the anonymizer don't make it through to mail notification as far as I can tell. You only have to read them if you actually check the board.)

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2000

A sincere thank you from all your faithful readers, Beth.

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2000

Thanks, Beth.

(I didn't know about bigjoe and he got me upset about some stuff.)

-- Anonymous, April 20, 2000

I just got the word that my cousin and his wife had to rush their 10 year old daughter to the emergency room for some life-threatening ailment. Turns out she just started her first period! Let's all gather together for a big DO'H!

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

re: insync miniforms

i don't know how they stay in, but they do. indeed, they can be difficult to coax out sometimes. (i tend to take it out and put it back in instead of changing it every time i pee.) they say the average woman pees 5 times a day, well that ain't me. i can pee up to 15 times a day, so putting in a new on every 45 minutes to an hour, especially on days i'm just using it as back-up, would be really silly.

i recently used the instead/insync combo on a 14 hour flight from sydney to l.a. and it worked out very well. i pushed the limits, but it worked. i don't think any tampon/pad/pantyliner combo would have worked as well.

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2000

On a lighter note.

I love xeney readers!

Look what was in my mailbox, from a concerned xeney reader, regarding my allergy to latex condoms, etc.........

Hey there,

I was reading Xeney's forum and noticed your post about being pretty allergic to latex. I don't know if you know this or not, but you should be *very* careful about not exacerbating your allergic reaction. If your body continue to develop a larger and larger immune response every time it "sees" latex, eventually you could reach a point where even small amounts could push you into anaphylactic (sp?) shock. This is especially dangerous since going to the hospital to get treatment would only make it worse (as they have so much latex floating around in the air from their powdered gloves).

--David

Nice, no? Just wanted to post it FYI for pamie and any of the other people with bad reactions to latex.

Oh and I was taking Estrostep and my doctor told me to skip a period to avoid being on during my honeymoon. I was a little nervous, but I had no problems.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2000

Re running pill packets together:

Is there any reason why, having avoided a period at an inconvenient time, you have to finish the second pill packet? Since the pill keeps you from ovulating and you have a period several days after stopping it, couldn't you just eat one week's worth of another set of pills, have a period a week late, and then start a fresh packet and continue normally? In other words, why must it go in three-week increments?

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

Diana, I have a feeling there is a reason why you can't just take an extra week's worth and delay everything by a week - I think it can make the pill unreliable. Don't ask me why - I have no idea - it must be something I read in Cosmo once.

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2000

I don't know if this forum is still valid...but...

I hate tampons, they feel like they are going to fall out! I use always, different types. I just don't like wings. I also use stayfree sometimes. Pads aren't bad at all. They are really comfortable and easy to forget about.

-- Anonymous, July 07, 2000

Hello all,

I am a male who has great respect for women. I enjoyed reading the interactions and period tips you have given each other. I'm not someone who is at all squeamish about this topic either in discussion or in personal interactions.

I have no need or desire to do any ego trips, life has way too much of that stuff in it already. Naturally a woman will know how events in her life cycle make her feel, while I relate to the feelings she expresses. Thus it would be arrogant of me to speak of "shoulds" and "oughts" about menstruation to women.

I certainly know how I feel, but of course that does not mean I speak for anyone other than myself. My understanding of the way menstruation affects different women in different ways has been very much enhanced by discussions like this. I believe this is one more area where there are many possible paths for different women, and that each individual can decide what way is hers.

I thought about commenting about the "foreskin" debate, but decided it really is off topic here and since I have no need to convince anyone either way, I'll leave that alone.

Thank you !

VielD@aol.com

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

This topic (sans the little heads, that is) is great. While I am interested in the whole network server issue, I think I will try tampons for the first time.

I think someone who shall go unidentified put me off them when she ran into the house, or perhaps staggered is a better term. She stumbled into the bathroom. Turns out she'd had an applicator stuck in there. This was in the early eighties, so I think the construction of applicators was far more chunky then. Scared the shit out of me.

Thanks for the informative thread. Pleased to be a part of 'driving Jeremy buggy.'

-- Anonymous, April 21, 2001

Someone sked what o.b. stands for. My German is rusty, but I believe it is "ohne binde," or "wthout pad"

-- Anonymous, April 22, 2001

Wrong! Those are the initials for one Mr. Wan Kenobi.

(that was lame. I deserved to be punished. somebody shove your tongue down my throat and kiss me til I can't breathe.)

-- Anonymous, April 23, 2001

Only one comment:

"Comfortable plastic applicator" is the most evil oxymoron ever created for the purpose of selling a product. The twisted, masochistic idiot who designed sharp, pointed plastic for "comfortable insertion of the product into the vaginal orifice" should be hunted down and used as a demonstration model.

Thank you.

-- Anonymous, April 24, 2001

Hello pals,

Here instead of answering , i just wanna ask some queries about mestruation.

I'm just 12 yr old girl from india and i'm immatured. I dont hav any idea about periods and how they happens.

I dont even know , what the thing will happen when get matured for the first time.How the feelings will be? What exactly happen physically.

pl answer to above questions if possible.

thnx

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2001

Hi, I very very yung boy, respetful boy. I want only to find tru luv. If I find tru luv I happy all the day, never cry. so, tell me butiful ladies, what u want from man? You want feel my long man thing? Tell me, no be fraid. I want only to pliss you.

Uhh, yeah, i live in poor country. Well, Monro County Ohio, anyway. Tahnk you all and good night. Pl call me, butiful ladys.

-- Anonymous, April 27, 2001

i used to wear pads when i first started my periods beacuse the thought of tampons looked hiddeoiuse but once i tried tampons i couldnt believe it! they are the best thing...i have never tried non- applicator bacause they look horrid and the thought..so applicator is the best...i use Tampax Multipack which i never use the whole box so i have some left over... now pads seem bulky and they as someone said dont have 'air condithining'! they feel horid but i must say i do wear them when im due.....and at night.but i do wear tampons at night at the start of my period. well this has been very interesting to read all the comments by people...

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

I would like to know more about tampon..I've never use it..Could anyone tell me how it use..and how it is different compare to normal sanitary napkin. Which brand do you think it's the best? How about side effect? Is it safe to use? Could you please send to my e-mail address above? Thank you very much

-- Anonymous, August 09, 2001

Hey Ladies, are you all crazy? The Perfect Solution already exists!! Haven't you heard of The Keeper Menstrual Cup? Kinder to the Environment and Planet, your Body and Purse strings! You know it makes sense! Visit www.menses.co.uk to find out more.

-- Anonymous, August 10, 2001