Iam very new at self reliant living. It has been very informative reading this forum. I started raising chickens this year, the turkeys are coming at the end of the month, I've started a small garden,and implemented all sorts of money saving habits. I am thinking about milk goats next. I have a fenced area where my 2 Australian Shepherds spend most of their time in nice weather. They come indoors at night. We only have 3/4 acre total with 1/4 of it fenced. I want to expand the garden next year and the chickens and turkeys take some space. If I put electric around the top of the fence, would the dogs and the goats be compatible? I think the dogs would enjoy it. Is 1/4 acre enough room for 1-2 goats? I hope to move to a larger piece of land in the future but for now I have to utilize what I have as efficiently as possible. I'm also thinking about rabbits later. Still investigating all the possibilities.

Thanks, Denise

-- Denise Hammock (jphammock@earthlink.net), May 01, 2000

Answers

A quarter acre is enough space if yoou are going to buy hay for the goats, it is not enough for them to pasture on. I would have a few misgivings about putting the goats in the dog's pen,though. Australians Shepherds tend to be good with livestock, but every dog is an individual,I've seen gentle pitbulls and nasty dogs of many breeds. They might get defensive and feel like the goats are intruding on their territory, and get aggressive even if they wouldn't if the goats were in their own pen. Aside from that, there are the parasite problems to consider, although there are folks who keep anatolians and marremas in with their goats at all times. Usually those dogs are raised from birth with the goats. Putting electric wire around the fence should be effective in keeping the goats from jumping it. You might want to put a wire around the inside perimeter about a foot or two off the ground.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), May 01, 2000.

Expecting dogs who have probably never seen a goat, or goats who have never seen a dog, to live together is asking alot! Not that it couldn't ultimatly work out. Perhaps a docile breed like Toggs or LaMancha's, couldn't even imagine my Nubians tolerating a dog trying to herd them. It would be down right dangerous for the dog! Perhaps starting with younger does and introducing the animals together while you are there to referre things! If you hay and grain you will not need much room for the goats, especially with daily leavings from the garden, which they will love. Even a small exercize pen and a clean barn would be fine, in fact bringing them hay and grain and raking their pens will leave no avenue for cocci and worms, so you will spend less money on them! Goats aren't very good grazers of grass anyway. Goats are a wondeful addition to your farm, if you go about their purchase with information. Don't buy anything because it has spots or is cute. Read, Read, Read and ask a million questions before you buy! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), May 01, 2000.

I don't think you should try to keep herding dogs (which is what Australian Shepherds are) in with livestock all the time, the way the livestock guardian dogs are kept. The herding instinct is a controled but very strong hunting instinct, and if the animals were together all the time it might be too much temptation for the dogs. The worst stock killers are often uncontrolled dogs of herding type background. Also, when we got our first Great Pyrenees and put them in with our goats (who had an acre and a half pasture, so more room to get away), one old doe took one look at those dogs and bolted through the fence. She did in time lose her fear and accept them, but it took a while, and those are very easy, laid-back dogs when they are around livestock -- they couldn't stay with them otherwise. Also, you may have to put electric around the top of your fence even if you only keep the goats in there, as they are very good at getting out of fences. I'm chuckling as I write, remembering how one of our first goats, when put in a pen in the shed to kid -- due any day, and bulging at the seams -- jumped the five-foot high solid pen sides to get back out with the other goats. We let her have her babies out in the field -- they did just fine!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 01, 2000.

i fully agree with everyone. we raise goats with pyrenees but only with goats born and raised around the dogs. i tried to add a new 2yr.old nanny ,and almost lost my best dog. broken ribs,torn lung.the dog thought he know better then fighting back, now i will not allow the dogs near any goat i do not know. imagin if she had had horns!

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), May 01, 2000.

I agree too. I have the most gentle border collie you'd ever wanna see and she gets on fine with most of the goats; but it only takes one, and my Alpine/Oberhasli mix has just enough attitude that she will not tolerate the dog and goes after her. It only takes one, either the dog or the goat, to be aggressive and you'll have a situation on your hands. Please be very cautious; it can bring heart aches. My BC wouldn't hurt a flea, but what can you expect when a 140# doe has you pinned against a fence? And I was there to supervise! Still both got hurt and it could have been a lot worse had I not been there. The clincher was that everything was peaceful for about an hour, until for whatever reason, the goat suddenly decided she didn't like that dog standing on that particular patch of ground and went after her...you just never know when or what will set them off.

-- Jim Roberts (jroberts1@cas.org), May 02, 2000.

Well, folks, my chicken-eating dog chased the goats last week and the girls had to jump a fence to escape him. One got a back hoof snagged and I fear what would have happened had I not been running to her rescue.

I placed an ad for this week's paper to give away the dog. He never so much as looked sideways at the girls before, and he won't be given another opportunity. I care for that dog, but I love those goats. They will kid in three weeks, and he won't ever see those babies, that's for certain. A blessing in disguise, I think.

-- Rachel (rldk@hotmail.com), May 06, 2000.