okay- i just told my sister last night (and my parents via email a few minutes ago) that i will not be attending her wedding next week. she was understandably ticked.

i have very good reasons that have nothing to do with them, but with me. have you ever taken yourself as first, and made a decision like this? what were the consequences? do you regret it? are you a stronger person?

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Answers

Wow, Irene, that certainly is a big decision. I trust it's the right one for you, but I also understand your sister's pain. My father wasn't able to make it to my wedding for valid health reasons, but it was nevertheless tremendously difficult on me.

To answer the other parts of your question, I made a decision not to put my husband and myself before my family once, and I don't regret that. I've spoken about this on a past forum, but I'll elaborate. When I became engaged, there were four months between the time I graduated college and got married. I needed a place to live, so Kevin and I decided to move in together. Well, my mom, my dad, and my grandmother all freaked. But to be honest, I didn't care. I proceeded with my plan. And then I got a letter in the mail from my grandfather (who it must be stated, I adored more than anyone on the planet), and he tactfully argued with me about this decision. I'd never in my life disappointed the man, and I felt like I was two and had just broken his favorite possession. Even at 22, I was too ashamed to disappoint him like that, and I changed the plans. Kevin and others have intimated that I was bullied into that by my grandfather, but I don't feel that way. Four months of pre-marital living together simply was not worth the pain. My grandfather passed away two years later, and we were on perfect terms at the end. I don't know that we would've been otherwise, but I respected him too much to test those waters.

It was hard for Kevin to understand at first, and he felt like he'd been put second. But now that we've been married almost four years, it's such a small part of our history. And not all that significant in the long run.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Wow. That was big of you. Sometimes it's important to remember that we're only here on this earth for a while. We only have a limited numbers of moments to affect those around us. I try, for the most part, to use them wisely. My mom may ask, but she doesn't want to know that I'm in plays with weird adult themes. I may feel bad lying, but she'd feel worse knowing the truth.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

i piss off my extended family with regularity:

"why did you ever break up with that nice Catholic boy you used to date? he was so normal and good and he went to church every weekend and his grandparents are friends with your grandparents..." yeah, but he drank a lot and was developing some abusive tendencies...

"why do you want to move so far from home? no one who lives in (insert san francisco, london or seattle) is really happy. why do you want to move away from your family?" because y'all are psycho.

"why can't you be normal like (insert name of any of 42 cousins, all of whom are 'normal')? why do you have to get piercings and major in art and not want to get married and pop out kids like the rest of your family does as soon as possible? what is wrong with you?"

what pisses them off the most is that i won't sit quiet and just take these questions at length anymore, i fire back with legit answers. and sometimes with made up ones that piss them off so much they stop talking to me for a while ("so how's the dating life?" it's great, i met someone wonderful and she and i are thinking of starting a feminist communist utopia in vermont and adopting dozens of refugee children and raising llamas -- i am very good at baldfaced lying and my fam never knows when to believe me, i do it enough times and they leave me alone for fear i may corrupt the youngins).

i love them dearly, but i live my life for me, my choices are to make me happy (can you tell i am in my twenties???) and i've done the whole live life to please the family thing for too long.

so the consequences are that my relationships with most of my family is strained, but some of my less conservative aunts and uncles (and my kick-ass grammy who doesn't bat an eye when i make up really outrageous lies because she loves me that much) have backed off on my needing to conform to the family way of things...

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Wow. I'm like an evil Leigh Anne.

I had basically the same thing going on, except I *did* move in with Michael. Financial reasons, sanity reasons, nearness reasons.

Until about three months ago, they thought I was just living with my best friend. My dad wasn't too pleased with that because he believed my moving out was a stupid decision. And he doesn't like my best friend. So, natch, he pretty much spazzed out when I told him. Didn't speak to me for a while. Still pretty strained.

None of my family approves. If we weren't having sex, they would, though. My family. Sigh.

So. Anyway. I'm extremely uncomfortable around any family except my mom (who, oddly enough, got over it very very quickly. Not like her at all.) and my sisters. Basically because I don't know who knows and who doesn't. Michael's uncomfortable because he thinks they despise him. For this I resent my family.

Or maybe just my dad.

He's never approved of *anything* I've done, or any decisions I've made, anyway, so *that* doesn't bother me too much.

But seeing Mike trying to decide whether or not to say Hi to my dad makes my claws extend. Really a lot.

That was pretty much incoherent. Eh. I don't regret moving in with him.

Besides, my family's whole thing is "you're married in God's eyes, you're living in sin..." If we had the money, we'd already be married. I don't really see the need for a gov't official signing a paper saying we'll dedicate our lives to each other. We've already acknowledged that.

Stopping before I get too pissed off.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Funny hing, but there's not much I can do to piss off my family like that. Nobody's trying to get me on the baby train yet, and both my brother and I have lived in sin (I live alone now, and andrew just moved in with his girlfriend) Mom & dad are of the mindset that we're old enough to make our own decisions, and we're old enough to deal with the consequences, too. They commiserate with us, but they never say "I told you so." That means a lot to me.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

"an evil Leigh Anne" -- hee hee.

I'm not so much the good girl, I was just a big chicken!

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Nutshell: I generally do the right thing, but constantly feel guilty, and if I have a difference in opinion with my mother, I can't just nod and say "uh huh" and let her think I agree, it feels too much like lying. So she constantly suggests *her* plans and ideas and pooh- poohs mine; and she needles and butts heads with me over decisions I make, which are 99.9% of the time good and sound and positive.

My brother, on the other hand, has been an incorrigible lyer and with- holder-of-truth for years. I can't recall a time when I ever fully trusted him. And when she says something, he nods and says "uh huh" and the subject is dropped. Why can't I learn to do that?!

Also, he's Joe Average. He has the same interests as he always did, only now they include beer, sports, work, really conservative haircuts and sensible vehicles and the 2.5 picket fence wife and house deal. Not a big surprise, I'm sure, to hear that my mother is all over these interests and heartily approves.

I have no interest in giving her grandchildren. Marriage may ormay not happen for me--I'd be more into it if it were something I could do on my own, but involving another person in huge plans like that requires, er, finding the right person. Until I do, I'm not going to change my mind about being unmarried. I.e., marriage is not something I'll feel worthless about if I don't do, but it is something that I know would probably be a positive thing for me. If that makes sense. I'm not, like, making plans. I never played bride or mommy as a kid. I had no idea what bridal magazines were like until the day of my SIL's wedding (which was excruciating on a number of levels I won't get into here).

Like others who have posted here, I'm an artist and I dress a little creatively and have interesting friends and different goals and interests from those of my mother, my brother, most 'normals' out there. And that's okay. I accept everyone's style, preferences & I blend in and don't make a big stinka bout being me when it isn't the time or place to do so, but I am 'me' anyway. I respect everyone else's preferences, beliefs and style, I just wish I got the same coutesy in return.

My way of dealing with parental disapproval is to simply not ask for approval before I do anything I have my mind set on. I was a very well-behaved kid, and was over-coerced anyway for stupid and unreasonable things, and reached my limit of it when I graduated high school. I stopped informing my family about my plans and whereabouts and interests and personal life details and have been much happier as a result.

Whenever I break my rule, I am met with guilt trips, disapproval, arguments, etc., and a lot of it is so subtle that it's hard to confront. Life's too short to be on the defensive all the time, to defend my right to think for myself and do what I think, as an adult, is best for me.

Results: I've moved from N.C. to Nevada and I sent my mom a postcard from Memphis saying I'd give her my address when I knew what it would be.

I bought my first car on my own without saying anything. (This was an 'issue', as my brother has gone through about 30 vehicles in ten years and has always had help with co-signed loans, loans of money, etc., all without a hassle. I'd asked for help multiple times to no avail. Later on, my mother did help me with a big purchase when I had no choice but to ask for help. I generally don't ask anyone for help, ever.)

I went to England on my own, stayed by myself (albeit within phone distance of friends, and they were my reason for going), had fun, did a lot of stuff solo because my friends got sick, and it was fab.

I moved in with a guy I ended up living with for 5 years. They found out ten months later when my old roommates told her I no longer lived there.

I've changed jobs and gotten promotions and gone on trips without 'checking in'.

They don't understand it, but I got so tired of being second-guessed and talked out of things. I've had a more fulfilling and rich life since I stopped getting 'clearnace' for my actions. It would be best if I were strong enough to stand up for myself consistently, but I love my family and am soft-spoken and easy-going. I want to agree with people and to maintain harmony, I hate fights (Libra much?). So this works for me, and it drives then crazy, which I'm sorry about, but it keeps ME from being crazy. I'm getting more and more assertive the older I get, too. (I've always been honet and straightforward, I've just chosen not to mention things.)

Eventually you have to choose between being the 'good' child forever and being a Real Adult.

Oh yes--when I do decide to let my family in on what's important to me, they piss all over it. I was crazy about this guy I was seeing over the holidays last year and he wanted to meet my family and they showed zero interest. When he did come down, they were barely polite to him. I showed them pictures of him before they met him face to face and we were at dinner with family friends and the friends all said "how handsome! is he good to you? is he nice?" and my family was, like, "oh, I don't have my glasses on...was his name Rick? Mick? Nick? I forget..."

HellO! Something's wrong with this set-up.

Oh yes, I'm constantly nagged to call my brother and his wife, who are perfect in all ways according to my mother, and I finally said "look, the phone lines work both ways, stop putting the responsibility all on me, I have a life". To be frank, I love them, but I don't want to be their best friend and I have nothing in common with either of them. This is just how it is. They send me into a coma of boredom talking about sports, ceramic tschotchke collections, wedding gifts they found uninteresting, allergies, more sports, conservative clothing stores, suburban neighborhood angst, etc. They're not stupid or boring, they just have interest in things that I can not force myself to be enthusiastic about--and in return, I realize that my interests mean nothing to them. We're just too different.

Bleah. Now I'm bummed out.

And I feel guilty.

God damn it.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

"lyer"? How the heck did I come up with THAT gaffe? I meant "liar". Sorry.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

I am so sorry to hear that you have a terminal illness and would be in danger of dying sooner from the stress of attending the wedding, Irene. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because your post betrayed absolutely no sign of selfishness or jealousy, I am assuming this is your good reason for not attending. I hope your sister can cut the honeymoon short to attend the funeral...

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2000

Dalton, what's your deal? I think it's fairly rude to look down on someone for a decision they have made without knowing the full story. Had you read the forum on fears, you would have seen Irene's other post and understood better why she decided not to go to her sister's wedding. Next time, you should try and get the full story before you judge someone and in such a sarcastic and caustic manner.

That having been said, I don't think I have ever really pissed off my family. They support all my decisions, and when they think they are BAD ones, they will give advice, but they won't guilt trip me into anything. For example, right now I am having a bad time at college, and am extremely depressed (it's very possible that I have a clinical depression). I have no motivation to do my work, I just found out that both my grandfathers are in the hospital and one of my beloved pets just died. I explained to my mom what was going on, and how little work I have been doing, and she was like, "Sweetie, I would hate to see you go down hill after pulling all As this year." And that was it. Nothing like, "What do you mean, you aren't motivated? Your depression doesn't have anything to do with it, blah blah blah." In short, my family rocks. They don't care about my piercings, my tattoos, my artsy way of dressing, my frequent bouts of hair-dying. They love me for who I am.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

ky- thanks for backing me up. i'm not dying. there will be no funeral.

i talked to my sister yesterday, and, quite amazingly and not-very-her, she was able to understand my condition and accept the reason why i'm not going. it was a big leap of faith on her part, and i can't tell you how much it means to me. she's offered her condo for us to stay at, in lieu of my parent's house, which is a great idea. my husband is going with or without me.

i've realized that if i can get my dad, stepmom and other sister to come to the same understanding the married one (or, rather, getting- married one) did, then i would be able to go to the wedding.

thanks for the support everyone. it means a lot. (except i'm not thanking the jackass, and YOU know who you are and a thousand plagues upon your house. no- just get bent.)

and to think i'm not bitter at times... ;)

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

I'm with Irene.

There are times in life when you must put yourself first. It sounds a little ego-centric, but if you're like me, having spent most of my life serving/pleasing others, there's a time to say, "enough. I need this time to myself." Perhaps it's a time to heal or get your life in order. Whatever the reason, I can't be fun or of help to someone if I've got internal things to take care of.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

Pissed off the parents?

mmm yeah. I decided to move to Washington, DC. My father thought it was a ridiculous opportunity and forbade me from going. HA HA I was 23 dammit.

I ended up going and calling them when I'd found a place. (okay that was chicken but I was scared that they were going to try and stop me) There was a train wreck in DC that same week and they were so happy that I wasn't on it that it all ended up being cool. In the end, they saw that I was soo much happier in DC than Little Rock, Arkansas that they got over it. AND they began to see me as an adult. It was a growing experience for all involved.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2000

an update (and i'm sure DALTON will be pleased)... after many long emails and a (surprising) conversation with my sister and stepmom, i will be attending the wedding. it was vital that they understand why i didn't feel i could attend, in order for me to feel comfortable enough to go. kinda mixed up, but now that my family knows, really knows the status of my mental wellbeing, i feel much better about attending the wedding.

plus, i've been recruited to take the photos, so i really can't miss out on this.

thanks for the input, everyone.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

Good for you, Irene. I hope you have a great time -- keep us posted about how it goes.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

Actually, Irene, I am pleased (not that I presume to have had any input). It's just that there aren't that many shouldn't-miss events in life. A close sibling's (first) marriage is very high on the list. I am sorry if I misunderstood your motives for initially refusing to attend the wedding. (Perhaps "pissing off the relatives - pros and cons" didn't truly reflect the situation and may have sounded flippant to others besides me?)

I'm glad others here convinced you that would have been a MAJOR mistake and cared enough to force you out of your comfort zone. My brother suffered for a short time from clinical depression so I'm not totally clueless to the debilitating effects it can have. Good luck to you and congratulations to your sister.

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2000

thank you, dalton. i don't hate you anymore.

*giggle*

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000