You all were very helpful with my previous goat question so I am trying again.

I go to look at goats for sale on Friday and though I have read and talked to folks I have never bought one myself. I want it to be a positive experience and to be happy with my choice.

SO after hearing and reading what to look for in a kid (3-4 months)please share obvious things to AVOID. Do I avoid those that the owner says "vaccines, whats that?" Or is that ok? Stuff like that.

In advance---Thanks a million all you diverse folks!!!

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), May 24, 2000

Answers

My advice is to avoid any animal that just does not "look" right. A healthy goat is active & alert. If you see one standing alone & not very perky, pass on by. You can have healthy goats without giving all the vaccines, so that's not really a reason. It's better if they do have, but not necessarily a bad goat if not vaccinated. Avoid any that have any kind of sore or abcess. Those things can be contagious & you don't want to start out with sick goats. Avoid goats that have extremely long hooves. If their feet weren't cared for properly you could run into problems there. Check out the entire herd & you can usually tell if the animals are cared for properly. I personally would avoid goats with horns. That can also cause problems down the road with aggressivenesss & horns getting stuck in fences, etc..

-- Wendy (weiskids@nalu.net), May 24, 2000.

Anne, years ago I bought a nannie goat--that was very friendly!!!! She loved people! I thought that was good--but (sweet pea--as we named her)--wanted to be with us all the time! She had no clue she was a goat! She cried if we went into the house--she would get out of no matter what we put her in & would come to our glass sliding doors at our walkout basement--& try to get inside! She followed us everwhere we went! She tried to help us with what ever we were doing-- she ate the garden--she ate the flowers--she sat in the lawn furniture--she thought our company only came to visit her. When we left home she would go to the neighbors & try to find them! She also ate the neighbor's roses if they weren't at home! She would chase the dog out of her house & take it over. When we sold her we had to sell her far enough away from us she couldn't get out & try to come home!!- --I'd say don't buy a real friendly one!!!! ha! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), May 24, 2000.

On the other hand, steer clear of a goat that is skittish and not friendly...they are tough to work with. I guess you need to find a 'middle of the road' personality that isn't jumping up on you, but will approach you for a good head or ear scratching. Or, at least, will approach their owner. I haven't had good experiences with buying stand-offish goats. You think they will come around with some TLC, but they don't always respond and end up being problematic. Temperament is very important...some folks cull/breed for temperament.

Check out the coat too. Should be shiney and smooth. Don't be afraid to handle the goat and feel all over for lumps and bumps, etc...look at their feet and hooves.

Buy two!

-- Jim Roberts (jroberts1@cas.org), May 25, 2000.

I plan on getting two so they will have a pal. Thanks!

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@homail.com), May 25, 2000.

My 2 new boys seem to be doing well. I am getting some knowlege about goats and fencing. LOL! So far, nothing serious!They have demolished all the blackberries (so thick I couldn't see through them). Amazing. They sure are nicely dispositioned. Good luck!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), May 25, 2000.

Although we don't have our goats YET....my friend that does says to try to talk to others who have bought goats from the same person you are considering buying from and see if they have had good results with the goats. Even at an auction if it's a semi-regular seller you should be able to find someone that can tell you something about the owner too...

Also make sure their eyes are clear and their nose is not runny...(my friend said that so I'm just passing it along!) good luck

-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), May 25, 2000.

Don't buy the first goat you see, a goat because she has spots or some one small or sickly because you feel sorry for her! Overall herd health, keep repeating this to yourself over and over. Those older does in the pen are what your little one is going to grow into! If she is registered her paperwork and tattoo's should be there and readable, don't accept any stories. If she is old enough to be milking an isn't why? Take a weight tape with you and weigh her. Is she at least 135 pounds if a yearling, who's her mom, her dad, and kids, sisters? What area are you in? I could easily post you address of folks in your area who have registered stock in the breed you are looking. Now is a great time to be buying with shows in full swing, those doe kids who are not as great as the breeder thought are for sale right now. And though others won't agree, usually someone who takes the time to register their stock and pay dues to ADGA, vaccinate, disbud, also worms and trims feet. Usually a much better deal for the newbie. Also a goat mentor, forums are great, but it is so much nicer to have someone who can help you with the hands on! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), May 25, 2000.

Take a look at the mother, what is her bag attachment like? does she have multiple babys? Does she produce anough to feed them all?

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), May 25, 2000.

Some things to avoid:horns,anything with pygmy,nigerian dwarf,or Boer blood in it,even a little,auctions(there are mostly sickly,diseased,or cull animals there),any goats from a herd with CAE unless the infected goats are strictly quarantined(do not buy the line that they bottle feed all the kids so it is OK for the kids to run with positive does),weak,sickly,runty animals,sellers who do not seem quite honest(if you feel like they are not quite right,trust your instincts),any goat from a herd where even one of the animals has an abcess(these are very contaigious).Everyone is different,but I don't like to buy from herds that have pygmies,etc,running around with the dairy goats.There is always a chance that the normal sized kid you are buying might have some pygmy blood mixed in,and a pygmy sized udder to match it!I tend to prefer places where there is one main breed being worked with,because the owners will be better able to really concentrate on that one breed than if they are trying to keep track of bloodlines on several diferent breeds.There are large dairies that manage to do that well,but for the most part, the excellent breeders have only one breed, or one main breed and one or two la manchas, for example.Also, where there are several breeds,there is always a chance that some crossbreeding could have occured when a buck got out,or worse,all the bucks,so that the owners,if they are not very honest,will be tempted to guess that this animal is alpine, because it looks just like it's mother,so the alpine buck must have bred her.It might be half Toggenburg,you just don't know. If the sellers will not provide proof that their herd is entirely CAE negative,buy elsewhere.You are going to be investing a lot of time,love,and money in your goats,you don't want to have to make the choice between putting a diseased animal down,or having a diseased herd,or quarantining the goat all by itself.Again,I would not buy from a herd with CAE even if they bottle feed all the kids,unless those positive animals are quarantined by at least ten feet.Kids nibble and suck on all kinds of things,there is a chance that they might have gotten a few drops of milk before a positive doe kicked them away.If the people dam raise the kids,make sure that they have several year's worth of completely negative test results for the whole herd.Even then,there is always a small chance that an older doe might come up positive if she was infected as a kid.The only way you could really be sure is if all the does were born to completely negative herds and have never been exposed to CAE since then.That kind of a scenario is very rare,but there are a few of them.Personality;what I have found is that the younger the goat is,the easier it will be to tame it down if it is shy or wild.I have tamed goats that were up to the age of yearling milkers.After they are more thasn a year or two old,it is very hard to tame them,and even the yearlings can be a challenge.If the goats run in a huge pasture and are never handled,it will be hard to tame them after a month or two in age.I have had wild kids that have been bottle raised,(but rarely handled),and dam raised kids that were handled and climb onto my lap.Goats that have been abused are very hard to bring around,and many of the goats that butt people(and don't have horns) fall into the abused at one time category.If the seller is rough and mean to the goats,and yells and shouts at them all the time,or kicks them,either buy only small kids,or don't buy at all.The same goes for if the man acts nice enough while you are there,but the goats act like he might hit them.They don't act like that without reason. I always try to ask buyers what they are looking for in a goat.Do they want something they can show? Do they want a family milker? Or a pet or brush goat? There is no sense in paying $250.00 for a registered doe of the country's best bloodlines with a beautiful udder if she is only going to eat brush and never be shown or milked or even bred. A family that just wants milk might get something like that,if they think that maybe someday their children will show them in 4-H,or that they might want to sell kids from the doe.Have a good idea of what you are looking for, and you will be less likely to buy a goat,bring it home, and realize that it's not what you really wanted.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), May 26, 2000.

Anne, Don't forget, you are also going to need a buck to breed to. Make sure that there is a good buck of your chosen breed within easy driving distance. Find out if you can take your doe to him or if the owner will loan him to you. That "window of opportunity" is quite narrow and it can be a pain if your doe doesn't settle and you have to keep transporting her back and forth. When I started out with goats I was sure I didn't want a buck. Then the breeder whose goats I was interested in made an offer I couldn't refuse. Now I'm very gladthat I have a buck of my own. Last fall I loaned him out to the other Nubian owners in the area. I bartered his services for chicken feed, goat feed and home made soap. It worked out well and I made some nice friends. Also, Robert Frost was right "Good Fences Make Good Neighbors" Get the best you can afford. We started out with 5'welded wire. It works great but you'll be constantly replacing staples where the goats have been pushing at it. We are slowly replacing ours with cattle panels. These are 16 feet long and about 41/2 feet high. Wish we'd started out with these in the first place. ( Be aware that goats can put their heads through the holes quite easily. Little boys pretending to be goats get stuck!!!)

Hope you find the ideal goats! Best wishes, Pauline

-- Pauline Adderley (tworoosters_farm@AltaVista.com), May 26, 2000.

Anne, Gosts are livestock not pets, you need to have a fenced area with a shelter. goats do not like rain so they need a roof over their heads, they need fresh water everyday, feed, hay, and have to be wormed and hooves trimmed on a regular basis. If you wnat goat milk you need to schedule you life around milking twice a day ofr 10 months of the year. Do not I repeat do not put them in the yard, they are not pets, they eat your flowers, poop on your porch, take naps on the roof of your car and will come into the house if you let them. Everyone has told you what to look for in a goat, shinny coat, perky attitude, up on their feet, just make sure you have a place to keep them. I love goats but have refused to sell them to people who are not prepared for them. Oh don't keep them with pigs or cows or horses, the big livestock injure or kill them without really meaning to, and Pigs are a whole nother horror story. good luck. karen

-- Karen Mauk (dairygoatmama@hotmail.com), May 28, 2000.

A few months ago, at an auction, I saw a beautiful Sannen doe. She was full grown, with a long, level back and a good barrel on her, and a nice broad chest. Her udder attachment was even decent...maybe not show quality, but certainly serviceable. You could see the tatoo in one ear, when the light shone thru it, so she was registered. She stood by herself, looking miserable; when she turned around, I could see why. One eye was all runny and red, and swollen; pinkeye. Pinkeye is curable; you have to work at it and quarenteen the critter,but it is doable. I just wondered WHY someone didn't try with this animal; and I wonder what happened to her, and her penmates, who were also exposed. Not a pleasant thought.

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), May 31, 2000.

All the weather and wind took a toll on the ancient building I planned to use for the girls, so have put off the purchase for now. Didn't help that there was a tractor incident.... Sigh.

I agree that as owners we need to be fully prepared and now know we are not re: shelter. So I will scheme and plan that new perfect building for goats and hay and storage and great fencing! I'll have to save some cash for that outlay, as I want to do it right and quit making do. I want efficiency now.

Thanks for all your advice. I am so dissappointed, but figure it will be worth it to wait.

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), May 31, 2000.

Anne, I'm so sorry you have to wait. But....you are teaching me a lesson in patience. I'm still in the city, waiting until I am prepared, and ready to do this right. Thanks, Cathy

-- Cathy Horn (hrnofplnty@webtv.net), May 31, 2000.