Raising a toast (or several) to ALL and SUNDRY who served our country!

Enjoy your weekend!

-- Thank You (2@ll.vets), May 26, 2000

Answers

I'll second that, and extend my gratitude for all thea the vets have done fot this nation.

Three cheers!

-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), May 26, 2000.

I'll 3rd that...to all who have served their country and for those who have lost their lives to give 'us' freedom and their families who paid the price as well.

BTW, anyone here exmilitary?

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 26, 2000.

my dad,got killed in2nd ww i was 2 years old.wish i coulda known him. he won the navy champion boxing belt--but someone stole it. but i,m looking forward to seeing him again.he was a believer. every memorial day,i kinda feel-sad.i don,t think he,d recognize america of to-day.too bad the un-GODly politicians ruined so much. but the BIBLE say,s to pray for the do-do,s so gotta pray-more & bitch-less.---only prayer can change thing,s.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), May 26, 2000.

Actually Al, ACTION is what truly changes things in my opinion. I spent 8 years in Naval Aviation and Im proud of my participation in our countrys military. The experience changed me for the better and I would tell any young person, male or female, DO NOT MISS THIS SPECIAL TIME IN YOUR LIFE. I needed some discipline in my early years and the military gave me all I could handle. And thank you to those of you who have graciously extended your best wishes to all of us that have served our country. I will drop a tear for my Buds that didnt make it back and for all of the brave men and women that have made the ultimate sacrifice for the rest of us.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), May 26, 2000.

My Dad was in the second world war. He was on the Baatan Death March and spent 3 1/2 years in a Japanese POW camp in Manchuria China. The Japaneese did not follow the Geneva Conventions and the way the American and Philiphine prisoners were treated were horrendous.

You could write him your thanks if you want to.

I was in during the last part of the VietNam non-war.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), May 26, 2000.

I was in Naval Aviation, now in the Reserve. My wife is in the Army Reserve. Makes for interesting scheduling...

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@yahoo.com), May 26, 2000.

Well as you can see in my photo's my hubby was in Navy. I enjoyed the military life and alas, i do miss it.

I am very proud of him, he took part in helping to rescue those children from Haiti. Did a 6 month med cruise and came back only to have to leave to retrieve.

My brother was only one to survive out of his Viet Nam platoon, and came home with a purple heart.

Vets hold a 'special' place in my heart, and thank you all for the responses..anyone else?

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 26, 2000.

The Flag that inspired Francis S. Key to write our National Anthem

Now all we need is someone should post the a sound file of the National Anthem.

-- Old Glory (still@standing.because.of.you.vets), May 26, 2000.

Thank you for your service to our country. I salute you (and your family who stood by you). I am in your debt.

-- Aunt Bee (SheriffAndy@Mayberry.com), May 26, 2000.

"Now all we need is someone should post the a sound file of the National Anthem."

(Let me rephrase that, the drink I raised to vets spilled on my keyboard and made a few typos...yeah that's the ticket.)

It should read: Now all we need is someone to post the sound file of the National Anthem.

-- (Old@glory.*hic*), May 26, 2000.

Ra,

Best said. While I'll never forget the many dead be they GI, NVA, VC or ARVN, it was a defining time for me trying to keep the poor, dumb, bastards alive. Poor and dumb only because they lost the crap game of war. I can reflect while they can't. I won.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), May 27, 2000.

The pay in the lower ranks is way too low. No serviceperson should need foodstamps. I think the pay should at least come close to police and firefighters - who also are underpaid.

GBA,

USAF Retired

-- (retired@nd.happy), May 27, 2000.

It takes great courage, grace, and faith to endure the unGODly (syntax for al-d)... We are all here on the free speech forum because of men and women that risked and gave their lives so we can spend ours throwing mud at each other, and having some great debates and illuminating insights, as well.

I stray from what I want to express (can't even begin to here). I witness the thanks of millions of Americans who are appreciative every day for the privilege to be in the USA. Wihout our veterans, we could be speaking Russian, Chinese, or whatever, watching our every public word, forced into labor, arrested and imprisoned without cause, and that's the good stuff!! Well, I'm getting depressed thinking about it. I think we all understand.

To the veterans who have made it home, I (we) offer unlimited gratitude and love... and to those who "didn't make it home", we can consider that maybe they made it home afterall... and of course offer gratitude and love... They and their families have made the ultimate sacrifices for freedom. Thank you and may you all be blessed.

PS. I've never been mil.com but I was married to a man who was in Special Forces and in the bush for two solid years... (no bath either... can't smell like soap!!). He worked with four other men strung out individually across some sort of perimeter. Their primarly function was to go subversively into prison camps and get prisoners out undeteced and alone. Geez. He lived like the North Vietnamese, in their own tunnels. Big rats I think he said. And he slept in trees and learned to fall asleep in mere seconds (get it when you can). I'm sure there is much horror where he was, and I can't even imagine...this is the most detail he ever talked about. I offer him my gratitude and love ...

-- keep the faith... (booann77@hotmail.com), May 27, 2000.

To all our Vets...I salute you!

-- Peg (pegmcleod@mediaone.net), May 27, 2000.

Yes! I salute you all as well, and can't possibly thank you enough for what you have done for us.

My dad was in the Canadian army in WW II. He went up through Italy in '43 (the Canadian troops were cheered by the populace; the Italians apparently cheered whoever appeared to be winning!); crossed France, then through the Netherlands; by the time he got close to Germany the war had ended.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), May 27, 2000.

History has forgotten what crimes the Japanese committed during WWII.

We hear about the Japanese being interned in America and there is a lot of whining about the dropping of the nuclear bombs to stop the war. But the truth about what preceeded the dropping of the bombs, as a matter of fact, the reasons why it was necessary to drop them, has been hidden by history. The Japanese Government were never held responsible for the war crimes they committed, The American Government was even instrumental in covering them up.

Below is some inforation about the truth of what happened.

UTLINE OF EVENTS

The picture above is of Gen. MacArthur (left) and Gen. Southerland (right), aboard the USS Missouri, during the signing of the Japanese surrender of World War II. Gen. Wainwright is directly behind Gen. Southerland.

***************

(The purpose of this "Outline of Events" is to provide an overall picture into the plight suffered by the Defenders of Bataan. It is not meant to provide detailed, all-inclusive, information. If you wish detailed information, on any of the steps of this outline, feel free to e-mail, "The Battling Bastards of Bataan". Our intent is to provide you with the truth.)

***************

1. On Dec. 7, 1941, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The American Pacific Naval Fleet suffered heavy losses in lives and ships. The Fleet was incapacitated and could not, in that state, defend American interest in the Pacific Rim and in Asia.

2. Only eight hours later, on Dec. 8, 1941 (due to the difference in time zones), Japan launched an aerial attack on Philippines. Most of the American Air Force, in the Philippines, was destroyed, while the planes were on the ground.

3. A few days later, Japanese forces, led by Lt. Gen. Masaharu Homma, landed on the Philippines. The Japanese landings were in Northern Luzon and in the Southern Mindanao Islands.

4. Gen. Douglas MacArthur, Commander of the Filipino-American forces decided to meet the Japanese at their points of landing. This course of action deviated from the original War Plan, devised prior to WW II, which called for the American forces to withdraw into the Bataan Peninsula in case of attack.

5. Inexperienced troops failed to stop the Japanese at these points of landing. MacArthur had to revert back to the original plan, withdrawing the Filipino-American forces into the Bataan Peninsula. By the January 2, 1942, the Northern Luzon forces were in-place for the defense of Bataan.

6. Their mission, in the baseball vernacular, was to "lay down a bunt". They were to stall the Japanese advancement, by forcing them to use much of their troops and resources in the capturing of the Philippines, for as long as possible. This would buy the necessary time needed to rebuild the American Pacific Fleet, which at the time had been crippled, by the Pearl Harbor attack and the bombing of the American Air Bases, in the Philippines.

7. The Filipino-American Defense of Bataan was hampered by many factors:

a) A shortage of food, ammunition, medicine, and attendant materials.

b) Most of the ammunition was old and corroded. The AA shells lacked proper fuses, as did many of the 155mm artillery shells.

c) Tanks, Trucks, and other vehicles were in short supply, as was the gasoline needed to power these items of warfare.

d) Poorly trained Filipino troops, most of who never fired a weapon, were thrown into frontline combat against highly trained Japanese veterans. Americans from non-combatant outfits: such as air corpsmen and, in some instances, even civilians, were formed into provisional infantry units.

8. The Defenders of Bataan continued to hold their ground, without reinforcements and without being re-supplied. Disease, malnutrition, fatigue, and a lack of basic supplies took their toll.

9. On March 11, 1942, Gen. MacArthur was ordered to Australia, Gen. Wainwright took his place in Corregidor, as Commander of the Philippine forces, and Gen. King took Wainwright's place, as Commander of the Fil-American forces in Bataan.

10. Around the latter part of March, Gen. King and his staff assessed the fighting capabilities of his forces, in view of an impending major assault planned by Gen. Homma. Gen. King and his staff determined the Fil-American forces, in Bataan, could only fight at 30% of their efficiency, due to malnutrition, disease, a lack of ammunition and basic supplies, and fatigue. On April 3, 1942, the Japanese launched their all out final offensive to take Bataan.

11. On 9 April 1942, Gen. King surrendered his forces on Bataan, after the Japanese had broken through the Fil-American last main line of resistance.

12. The Japanese assembled their captive Fil-American soldiers in the various sectors in Bataan, but mainly at Mariveles, the southern most tip of the Peninsula. Although American trucks were available to transport the prisoners, the Japanese decided to march the Defenders of Bataan to their destinations. This march came to be known as the "Death March".

13. The "Death March" was really a series of marches, which lasted from five to nine days. The distance a captive had to march was determined by where on the trail the captive began the march.

14. The basic trail of the "Death March" was as follows: a 55-mile march from Mariveles, Bataan, to San Fernando, Pangpanga. At San Fernando, the prisoners were placed into train-cars, made for cargo, and railed to Capas, Tarlac, a distance of around 24 miles. Dozens died standing up in the railroad cars, as the cars were so cramped that there was no room for the dead to fall. They were, then, marched another six miles to their final destination, Camp O'Donnell.

15. Several thousand men died on the "Death March". Many died, because they were not in any physical condition to undertake such a march. Once on the march, they were not given any food or water. Japanese soldiers killed many of them through various means. Also, POWs were repeatedly beaten by them and treated inhumanely, as they marched.

16. Approximately, 1,600 Americans died in the first forty days in Camp O'Donnell. Almost 20,000 Filipinos died in their first four months of captivity, in the same camp. The healthier prisoners took turns burying their comrades into mass graves, just as they, themselves, would be buried, days or weeks later.

17. Camp O'Donnell did not have the sanitation sub-structure or water supply necessary to hold such a large amount of men. Many died from diseases they had since Bataan. Many caught new diseases, while at the Camp. There was little medicine available to the prisoners. Their inadequate diets also contributed to the high death rate. Diseases such as dysentery, from a lack of safe drinking water, and Beri-Beri, from malnutrition were common to the POWs. The Japanese soldiers continued to murder and miss-treat their captives.

18. Due to the high death rate in Camp O'Donnell, the Japanese transferred all Americans to Cabanatuan, north of Camp O'Donnell, on June 6, 1942, leaving behind five hundred as caretakers and for funeral details. They in-turn were sent to Cabanatuan on July 5, 1942. The Filipino prisoners were paroled, beginning in July, 1942.

19. Cabanatuan was the camp in which the men from Corregidor were first united with the men from Bataan. No Americans* from Corregidor ever made the "Death March" or were imprisoned in Camp O'Donnell. Not having suffered the extreme depravations and conditions endured by the men from Bataan, the prisoners from Corregidor were, overall, much healthier. (*There were Philippine Scouts and some men from the Philippine Army, captured in Corregidor, who were interned in Camp O'Donnell.)

20. Cabanatuan, for most prisoners, ended up being a temporary camp. The Japanese had a policy (which was a direct violation of the Geneva Convention) that prisoners were to be used as a source of labor. They sent most of the prisoners, from Cabanatuan, to various other camps in the Philippines, China, Japan, and Korea, where they were used as slave labor. Some worked in mines, others in farms, others in factories, and others unloading ships in Port Areas, for the remainder of the war. Each subsequent prison camp, after Cabanatuan, has a story of it's own.

21. Left behind, in Cabanatuan, were, approximately, 511 officers and the prisoners too sick to move (and most of those too sick to move never recovered and died in Cabanatuan). Towards the end of the war, most of the men who stayed behind were placed on ships and sent to other camps, in Japan, Korea, and China. The Japanese did not mark these ships, to note that there were prisoners on board. They were bombed and torpedoed by American planes and submarines. Most of these men died, by drowning at sea.

22. Most prisoners who left Cabanatuan in 1942, were sent to the other countries mentioned, in ships appropriately called, "Hell Ships". These "Hell Ships" sailed from Manila to their various destinations in Japan, Korea, or China. As mentioned earlier, the Japanese did not mark these ships as being prison ships, so they were targets for American planes and submarines. Thousands of Americans, who were passengers on these ships, met their deaths by drowning at sea.

23. The conditions on these ships are indescribable and far worse than the conditions endured in "Death March" and Camp O'Donnell.

24. For the remaining three years of their captivity, the Defenders of Bataan were spread throughout the various slave labor camps in Japan, Korea, China, and the Philippines, until each camp was individually liberated, in 1945. These prisoners endured the whims of their brutal captors, with similar conditions and miss-treatment as those experienced in the "Death March", and Camp O'Donnell, and the uncertainty of when, if ever, their captivity would end.

25. Coming from the warm tropical climate of the Philippines, the men sent to Japan, Korea, and China had to adjust to the sub-freezing temperatures of Northern Asia, without the proper personal equipment and indoor heating to survive such cold temperatures. In Manchuria, China, the POWs, who died in the winter, were placed in an unheated shack for their bodies to freeze, because the ground was so frozen and hard that they could not be buried until the spring.

26. After they were released, these men were sent to various military hospitals for physical examinations. Many of their ailments, due to malnutrition, went undiagnosed. Many of the systemic fevers they had contracted went undiagnosed. More importantly, the psychological scars they suffered were never recognized. It was not until years after the Vietnam War, the US government recognized "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" or PTSD as a legitimate disorder. It is safe to say, each of these men has carried these scars for the rest of their lives, and indirectly, so did their families.

27. After the war, little was made of the plight of these men. Until recently, few books were written about their ordeal. There were many reasons for this: by the time the Defenders of Bataan came home, the US had already heard a multitude of war stories about the great battles in the Pacific and in Europe. The Defenders of Bataan had surrendered. (Most Americans failed to recognize that the Defenders of Bataan were surrendered as a force, by their Commanding General. They did not surrender as individuals.)

28. After the War, Japan and the US formed an alliance to ensure their mutual economic prosperity and to ensure their mutual security. It became an unwritten policy to play down Japanese War Crimes, satisfied with the meager results produced by the Tokyo and Manila War Crimes trials. 29. Unknown to most: POWs held by the Germans died at a rate of 1.1%. POWs held by the Japanese died at a rate of 37%. The death rate amongst the Defenders of Bataan was much higher, because of their weakened condition, prior to their capture. 30. Germany has acknowledged their war crimes and has made restitution to the victims. Japan has denied everything. In their history books and in their school books, they have re-written history in an effort to falsely show they were the victims of the War,sams@brigadoon.com), May 27, 2000.

Ill try again

http://home.pacbell.net/fbaldie/Battling_Bastards_of _Bataan.html

There were experiments performed on the POW's, chemical, physical, even experements to see which tortures were more effective.

I am going to start a new thread about this, history that was not allowed in our history books.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), May 27, 2000.

Just adding my thanks!

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), May 27, 2000.

Yes, a big thanks to all the Vets for keeping this the best country. Thank you to all that went and never came home. Thank you to all that went and came home dead. Thank you to all that went and came home not exactly the way you left. Your service means more to us as a nation than you'll ever know.

For my BBQ on Monday, I think that I shall invite all the Vets that live around me. I'll have a full house.

Again, to all the Vets past, and all the servicemen and women present, Thank You.

ps - have you hugged a serviceman/woman today? (I have!)

-- (Sheeple@Greener.Pastures), May 27, 2000.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{GAYLA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

sure have 'missed' you.

Donna, yes, I have even kissed one today.

Again, THANKS GUYS & GALS FOR SERVING "OUR COUNTRY"

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), May 27, 2000.

Sumer,

So have I! :) :) :)

-- (Sheeple@Greener.Pastures), May 27, 2000.

I had a uncle who died in world war 11, and cousins in vetnam. I wish to salute them and I love them still.

-- (bneville@zebra.net), May 27, 2000.

I apoligize mightly for hitting the key too soon and logging off w/o review. Meant to say "I won and you won."

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), May 29, 2000.

It's something that happens, for whatever reasons. I served two tours of duty in Vietnam, and I must say this is a part of my life I try very hard NOT to remember. The memories took a long time to fade, and weren't pleasant. I still can't find any purpose in digging them up. There's something deeply disturbing about knowing you shot people because you had to (they were shooting at you), and you didn't know why you were doing it and you suspected they did. To this day, I can't see that I helped anyone on earth by doing what I did, except me (because I survived).

The glory in war is entirely artificial, after-the-fact. Soldiers are those whose profession is to pay for someone else's mistakes. For me, THAT'S what this day is meant to remember.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 29, 2000.

Best said, Flint.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), May 29, 2000.

My father was part of the Normandy invasion. He brought home 2 purple hearts, a bronze star, and a shortened lifetime of flashbacks and nightmares. It used to be called combat fatigue, before many VN vets were recognized as suffering from PTSD. He was just 44 when he died of a heart attack, VN just in the ramping up stage. He said that, if he had sons instead of daughters, he would have moved us to Canada.

My brother in law, a VN vet, drowned himself after many years of unsuccessful treatment for PTSD. He had Hodgkin's disease from Agent Orange exposure.

These were both honorable men who deserved not only my gratitude, but my understanding. I'm a better person for having known them.

Peace

-- (Adelle@home.today), May 29, 2000.