Please excuse this out-of-character request, but I really consider this forum as my cyber home, and I wish your advice.

I realize that unfortunately, not everyone here makes their living by being funny. I think that several of you are even engaged in the more pruient career persuits such as computer science. I need to pick your brains, if I may.

My son just graduated (finally) from college, and is now intending to take the Microsoft certification courses. He is, (as hard as it may be to imagine), somewhat smarter than I, when it comes to computers, and thinks it would be a good tact for his future.

He has a BS in Psycology, with a double major in Spanish. He is also kinda fluent in Japanese. (but he don't speak Cajun worth a damn)

I am encouraging him in this, as I feel it will be better than an academic Masters. What do you all think about it?

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-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), May 31, 2000

Answers

(to da top)

-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), May 31, 2000.

Lon -- I have a BS computer science degree, ten hours short of psychology double major, business and math minors. If your son does well at the Microsoft courses, his linguistic skills will likely help him a great deal. If I could speak Spanish, I'd have it made around here. Just my opinion, but if he wants the Microsoft courses, it won't hurt his resume a bit. He can always get his Master's after he gets a job. Many employers will even pay for an employee's Master level courses. Good luck to him whatever he chooses to do.

-- helen (not@the.bed.yet), June 01, 2000.

Thanks, helen. (I just knew you were one of THOSE people) :)

Actually, I'm not sure of his computer skill level at this time. He does speak Spanish quite well, and has been working for the last year at a growing monm-and-pop business, where he computerized their office systems (from pencil and pad), and designed their web page.

I guess, my question really is, do you think that the Microsoft certification courses is the way to go? Or is there some other pathway to spend two years that may be more efficient, and perhaps more valuable in the long run.

He has traveled with me to Costa Rica as a kid, and thinks he may be able to catch a ride on the computerization of Cental America. I think he is right.

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-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), June 01, 2000.

Given his experience in wiring/connecting th emom-and-pop business, I'd definitely expect those two years would be most profitable witht he certification courses, and a "network" job/systems admin job.

Certainly that would be more profitable than a Masters....and the experience of seeing the networks in use, fixing problems, communicating with users/clients/bosses will give the experience to know where to aim his Masters. At this stage, he most likely doesn't have the real-live experience to figure out what field he'd like to concentrate in - yet!

So get certified.....get some dollars, get some experience, get some exposure, and most definitely keep up the foreign language. true, most computers don't "program" or hook up networks in Spanish/Japanese....but there are millions of users who need to use computers and networks and LAN's and telephones and cables who do!

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 01, 2000.

Lon, what draws me to this forum is the steadfast civility with at least a touch of humanity. Sometimes humor, sometimes pathos. It's a community, and I would hope you would feel free to post the type of thread that you did if that is what is on your mind.

In light of some recent threads (elsewhere), I'm very much looking forward to meeting you in a couple weeks. Hope you're still coming.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), June 01, 2000.

Hi Lon! :-) First of all, my congratulations to your son! I'm sure you're very proud, and should be! Tell him to go after MCSD (Microsoft Certified Solution Developer.) It's a LOT of work, but he won't be sorry!

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), June 01, 2000.

Lon: As you may know, I have both a B.S. and an M.S. in Comp Sci. so I feel I can put in two cents here. First off, it always pays to do some 'homework' before committing time and hard-earned money. Check out things like what percentage actually complete the program and get jobs, find out if assistance with job placement is offered, etc., Talking with several people that went through the program and received certification would be the greatest help. In short, find out as much as possible about it, preferably from first-hand contacts. One thing about the field is that you never stop the learning process (like taking classes) since change is continual and keeping 'current' is critical to maintaining employability. Hope this helps, Rob.

-- (sonofdust@measure.twice), June 01, 2000.

(((((Rob))))) There you are! We were worried after that goodbye on the other thread! :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), June 01, 2000.

((((((((((((((((( FRLians ))))))))))))))))))))

Education, especially practical applicable skills, equals obtaining tools that nobody can take away, that can always be used for service and built upon to expand opportunity.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 01, 2000.

WOW, Robbie, Gayla, and now even Ashton and Leska!

Who else is hiding in that fruitcake closet?

Thanks guys, you're all the bestest!

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-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), June 01, 2000.

Robert, very good advice. I particularly liked the part about him making some money.

Helen, what draws me to the forum is the free jiggle juice and fruitcakes. But, I guess Im kinda fond of the folks too. Sorta.

And Im sorry to say that I probably wont make the pic-nic. Since my wife is a school teacher, we kinda hard-wired our vacation time this year, and when you all are munching down on Spamwiches, I hope to be riding with Kit in the open car of the little steam train out of Chama, NM. I had wanted to visit several FRLians this summer, and had to cancel that, too, but I promise to keep trying to meet you all.

Gayla, yes I am kinda proud. (did I happen to mention his degree was cum laude?) I will be even more proud though, when he starts sending money home to his poor old destitute dad.

I take it that you are saying the MCSD is recognized by, and attractive to employers? Do you have this training?

Rob, I did not know, or had forgotten your MS in Comp Sci. (I can certainly understand how you might want to keep such a thing from becoming public information) :)

Do you employ, or work with anyone with this certification? If so, what do they think of their training?

A&L, I totally agree. All through my childhood and schooling, I worked various jobs, and acquired (somewhat) various skills. When I had the time, about three years ago, I built the little bayou cabin, almost by myself. Of course, every time we flush the toilet, the lights come on and the doorbell rings, but I never sweat the little things.

Again, thanks to all of you. You are truly good guys and good friends. (Its just too bad you arent funny)

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-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), June 01, 2000.

Lon, please post your solicitation for advice / experience about this Microsoft certification over on ezTB2K. Computer programmers lurk / post there ...

ezTB2K

We are curious too

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 01, 2000.

A& L,

You know you guys are really getin' pushy with those smiley-face thingies? If I ever put forth the effort to learn some of your tricks, boy are you gonna be sorry.

:)

Actually, I just wanted you both to know that you are an example of what I was trying to illustrate yesterday, on my Y2K Heroes thread on the uncensored board. I dont remember the exact conversation, but I know it had absolutely nothing to do with Y2K remediation. We were joking about hair styles, and you told us you had shaved your heads in support of a cancer patient you were helping.

I dont know either of you in the traditional way, I have never heard the sound of your voices, I dont really know much about your beliefs, your goals, your gods. (Heck, I even think you are kinda looney-tunes for your ideas about chem trails.)

But I love you for your compassion.

Like so many here, you gave me a standard to live up to. You exibited what I consider one of the finest of human traits, and did it in such a way that I immediately knew it was simply a part of your persona. You did not think it exceptional, and that in itself made you exceptional in my eyes. Thanks for being two of my heroes.

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-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), June 02, 2000.

Lon, here in Cascadia, whole police & fire depts shave their heads (the women too!) in support of chemo pts. When we were working at University Hospital, so many pts had bald heads ... we fit right in :-)

You know, it's the every-day endurance that requires heroism in this world. Little radical acts are easy, but being kind and patient and tactful day after day after day under severe pressures is superhuman ... we're not there yet. Working on it, but not there. Forum immersion didn't exactly help our personas on the tactical side either LOL

We *are* looney, yep, but the chemtrails really are happening. Very heavy & oily and prismed over Portland today. But until you see it yourself, there is no reason to believe such an outlandish thing.

You have inspired us to such depths, you have no idea. And we're not gonna tell you, either, because it is said that stymies the artist, and we want to read your eloquence for a long time to come!

Too bad you aren't heading up this way this summer. We've got enough camping stuff for some good excursions out in the emerald wilderness, and we've been coooooooooped up for so long it's sure to be a sight when we're set free ;^) It would be wonderful to show Kit a few music therapy tricks ... used to do that in bygone days ... maybe your travels will unexpectedly land you in our lair ... gotta sign off, being dragged offa here ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 02, 2000.

Lon,

I think the language training is the most important part of your son's training so far. A bachelor's degree in psychology is not worth a great deal on the market, so the MS certification is likely to be a real boost in marketability for his skills.

One important factor is the matter of what HE wants to do in the matter. My brother was a musician for several years because "everybody" said he was so good he should do it for a career. He followed everybody's advice and was miserable. Then he went back to school to learn computer science and is now the top banana for a publishing house. He loves it.

It sounds to me like your son is making some pretty sound decisions. I think you have a right to be proud of him.

gene

-- Gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), June 02, 2000.

Thanks, Gene.

Jeremy registers today, so I guess the die is cast.

I think he is making good decisions also, but sometimes it is really hard for me to advise him. His life is so very different than mine at that age. (And his world is so very different)

Growing up, he has watched me build up a couple of small businesses, and he has had the experience of being both "rich" and broke. He has always been a wiser person than I, but I worry that he's never allowed enough room in his life for mistakes, for irrationality or even just plain silliness. Maybe that's just a condition inherent with being the eldest child.

Anyway, he has the safety net of knowing that he can have my business, and that he is fully capable of running it. He probably will, at some time, but I haven't pushed him towards it, because I think he should explore his own pathways first. He has taken over much of the everyday operations of the small business he works at, and the owners like and trust him. I think that in a few years he will have a good foundation.

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-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), June 02, 2000.

Lon, Sweetie did all the MS certification stuff last year and gets to put "MCSD" or something after his name on his business cards. But seriously, when he was looking for another job by placing his resume on monster.com, many of the SCORES of headhunters who called over about a three-week period told me the MS certification was one of his biggest pluses. Sweetie's new job is in developing software rather than putting out fires and he loves it. He has much improved working conditions, better salary, shorter commute, woodland view from his office window, all kinds of freebies in the kitchen (juice and snacks in addition to the usual), 30,000 shares in the company, and a great deal less stress--due in large part to that magic certification.

If he doesn't know already, you might mention to your son that the Research Triangle Park area of North Carolina is desperate for computer pros. The general unemployment rate has been between 2 and 2.5% since at least 1987, consequently, salaries are very good around here. If he'd like to check into Sweetie's firm, leave your real e-mail with Coyote at the Mirc chat room--I don't think he'd mind playing postman :)--and I'll contact you with the web site url.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), June 02, 2000.

Old Git,

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I have passed on to my son all the advice and comments of everyone here, and I think he is really excited. My email add is real, BTW, but he is just starting the Certification training next week.

I am just amazed by the demand for computer pros. He (my son) told me tonight that a friend who graduated 2 years ahead of him at high school, got some college at UT Austin, but did not graduate, then got a job at Dell Computer. He just got hired away from Dell to the tune of 70 grand a year. This is a 27 year old, young man with abvious initiative and skills.

I wish my old brain was still somewhat resilient, I would take some courses, myself. It sounds like Sweetie is a pretty sharp cookie.

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-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), June 02, 2000.

"It sounds like Sweetie is a pretty sharp cookie."

'Course hs is. Married me, didn't he?

From what I read, B.Sc. Comp Sci gets you over $40k right out of college these days.

Have got your e-mail and replied. Hope info helps.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), June 04, 2000.

would he need a computer science (or similar) degree to get a job in IT over there, rather than just MS certification. is he intending to do programming, with the languages and IT experience the world's his oyster (though there aren't that many IT jobs in Spanish speaking countries that haven't be nabbed by the locals I suspect) does he want to get a trainee programmer job in an international company

-- richard (richard.dale@onion.com), June 05, 2000.

richard, how good to see you among us once again!!

Jeremy, just today, found out some more about the program he is trying to take.

First, it is the MCSE, rather than the MCSD path. He says he is intending to work more on (I think) problem solving, setup and internet connectivity, rather than program writing. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that is what I understand of it.

He also found out that he won't be able to start until the Fall semester, because they are just wrapping up now, and will begin the certification for Microsoft 2000 at that time. And he will take a couple of extra classes to get the certification for Cisco systems as well.

I hope this makes sense to all of you. I may have gotten it wrong again. Thanks for your help and interest.

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-- Lon Frank (lgal@exp.net), June 05, 2000.

Lon, thanks for your good wishes, I have been back for a bit, usually on frlians@egroups.com and tb uncensored (if I fancy taking a swipe at someone)

hope he gets on well, I suppose every job will have some sort of connection with computing, there are a number of different roles, having worked in the business for a number of years its changing all the time, you have to keep up with it

-- richard (richard,dale@onion.com), June 06, 2000.