so i've just started back into the dating world after being involved or relentlessly single for nearly 10 years. somehow, i don't remember the dating world being full of so many freaks. for example - one guy i've been acquainted with for a few years started flirting really intensely with me; the next week he mentions he's 'involved'. then he says, 'did i mention i'm married?' !!!

is it possible to find sane, stable, attractive single people? or is this a suicide mission? should i set the bar lower and hope for two out of three?

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

Answers

Don't try. The good ones come when you're not looking. I picked up mine at an art supply store.

I'm such a ho.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

I found mine at a bar. I don't recommend it. I mean, he's a goodun', but you should see the ones who came before him. Phew!!

Old men seem to like me very much. Old, toothless men. They think I'm pretty. **batting eyelashes**

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

I really like that "relentlessly single" bit. Why'd you give it up?

("You can always meet people on the internet!")

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

I have been dating or involved for 11 years, and boy, am I tired! Some days I feel like giving up and becoming a bitter old maid type person - I already have some of the stereotypical lifestyle & appearance qualities necessary! Other times it's - who cares? not me! as if Mr. Right/The One will hear this and come running at my lack of desperation. But for now I am coasting along... I am even going to church and attending the outings for "young people" under 41. We'll see - it's a big, scary world out there full of all kinds of people. As you can see, I am not optimistic right now. I recently attended one event where I saw the female competition out there for young, straight, employed, city-dwelling, attractive, intelligent men - and let me tell you, I can't compete! I am not willing to wear skimpy dresses and killer heels and pretend to be someone I'm not. So there! ha ha ha ha

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

hey laural - relentlessly single as in had just come out of an odd relationship and was trying to get myself settled in a new job/new city, and was actively uninterested in dating. then met a few people, then got married, then got divorced, then found the one i thought was it, then got dumped. it's taken a few months before i felt even interested in anyone. so i've met a few people; some haven't panned out for one reason or another, and one or two seem ok. but it also takes so much energy to meet people, even just as friends, that sometimes i wonder if it's worth it.

being a single maid has it's benefits, i'm starting to think. someday i'll be the crazy old lady with 67 cats who talks to herself and frightens all the neighborhood kids. 8)

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

And I'll be next door with a whole lot more cats, it seems.

I've been trying to meet men for a year now (I was divorced nearly two years ago and it took me a while to want to get back out there). I am having no luck at all. Well, ok, one guy I met *did* ask for my number and said he wanted to take me out to dinner, but nothing ever came of that. I even joined a computer-dating service, which I DO NOT recommend. The service I was with ignored my preferences and I ended up dealing with guys I would rather not have; and I paid for the privilege.

I think whoever said you meet them when you're not trying is right. Do things you like to do; even if you don't meet anyone, you enjoy yourself.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

Beth---If your track record is like mine:

1) You'll meet a guy and not like him/think he's a cocky asshole. 2) He will charm you over. 3) Unwillingly you'll give it a shot. 4) You'll fall head over heals. 5) He'll dump you. 6) Repeat process.

My new mantra---Only date ugly men. They treat you better than cuties....Of course my actions don't always reflect my words, but I'm trying! HA!

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

I swear I know it's completely cliche', but it will happen when you're not looking.

I (re)met the love of my life tagging along to a happy hour at a bar I would never step foot in otherwise. We went to jr high and high school together - never really hung out back then - ran into each other years later at this bar and BAM! Magic.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

No matter what else you do, don't ever, ever lower the bar. That's just asking for misery.

If you're looking for sane, stable, attractive people, here's the problem you're going to run into: if they're single, they're probably not sane. If they're stable, they're probably not single. And if they're attractive, they're either spoken for already or single by choice, and you don't want that in either case.

Holly's right, though--the ugly ones do treat you better. It's because we appreciate you more, generally speaking. And isn't it quality we're looking for anyway?

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

Right on, Heith!

I still have faith that I'm going to find Mr. Wonderful out there someday.

My theory on looks is quite simple. I will never be gracing the cover of Cosmo. and I'm okay with that. So, why the hell would I think that I need to meet a guy who looks like a CK model. (speaking of...I have a friend who signed a contract with CK...I don't think he's that hot...Maybe I'm just not attracted to "pretty boys" hmmmm....)

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

Oh...dating. I don't know. It sucks a lot of the time, but as far as Mr. Wonderful goes, he's out there.

He may be 5 hours away, though, so be prepared for that shit. And he may smoke, but whatever. If a guy will hang out with you for hours in a book store, follow it up with a baseball game, a fight movie and, ahem...uh...some other stuff (maybe when you're older)...well you'd drive all night for that, wouldn't you?

Not just yes, but hell yes.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

I live in New York, so the selection of sane, stable, attractive single men is...um...limited. I've dated my share of freaks, losers and actors, but I haven't given up yet.

Although I can appreciate eye candy as much as anyone else, I tend to go for guys who would best be described as "interesting". The most important qualities to me are sense of humor, intelligence and passion- the rest is just icing.

I agree that you should never, ever lower the bar. I'd rather be single for the rest of my life than end up with someone just because I didn't want to be alone.

Don't give up, successful dating is all about chemistry, and sometimes it does happen when you least expect it. At least I hope so.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

Bookstore, baseball, fight movie ... Allison, where have you been all my life?

As for dating ... I'm probably ill-equipped to give advice, since I'm having as much luck on that scene right now as Odysseus did in making a speedy return home from Troy. Since that's never stopped me from offering my opinion before, I'd like to add to the chorus urging not to lower the bar. Life is too short to settle for mediocrity, especially in matters of the heart.

Believe me, there are sane, stable, attractive single people out there. Don't settle for less.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

well, let me say that lowering the bar was more of a flip, desparate comment than a reality. ;-)

and attractive is in the eye of the beholder; personality, for me, determines a lot of what is attractive about a person. if you're comfortable with who you are, and present yourself that way, that makes you attractive off the bat.

gotta run out to meet a friend...so we can bitch about work... thanks for all the responses!

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2000

I am wrestling with this very issue right now.

Try living in a town of approximately 40,000 people, almost all of whom either work for or attend the same university. Try being a 31 year old woman with a Ph.D. Try living in a part of Virginia where inbreeding is a reality, and not just a punchline.

I put a personal out on the internet and I think I met the three guys in this area who are also single. It was not very inspiring.

The biggest problem that I have with dating is this: guys fall in love with me, but a lot of them don't really *like* me or want to be with a person like me. My ex-husband was that way. Head over heels in love with me, thought I was beautiful, very very sweet and romantic with me, but then he was always complaining about the fact that I was busy, extroverted, involved in my work, yada yada. Smart guys seem to like the idea of attracting an intelligent, independent woman, but then I find out that they don't really expect me to be all that much different from what their mother was like, bless her homemaking little heart.

I'm already thinking about getting a few more cats.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

Although it hasn't really "paid off" yet, I'd recommend internet personals.

I was originally using Yahoo Personals, but frankly, didn't meet anyone who was capable of conversation in the outside world.

I've had some luck recently with match.com, which is fairly extensive. After the trial period you have to pay, but it's only about $15 a month and you can do it month to month. I find that the people are better there, and it's probably because you have to pay for it.

love.aol.com has also been interesting lately, and is also fairly extensive in the questions you answer so the odds of finding someone closer to what you are looking for is greater.

I mean really--if you don't like bars and won't date in the workplace, where else are you going to meet people? That's my theory.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

Heith is right, never ever ever lower that bar, it only goes downhill from there and so hard to fight your way back to the top. I also must be hanging out in the same bar as Andi, because, I like older men (28+), but lately the only ones that come near are over fifty. I am so glad that I have my dog to keep me company because dating, and men, just suck

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

I checked out Yahoo Personals once and needed a very long, very hot shower afterwards. After reading Melissa's post, I checked it out again, because I'd like to meet someone this decade. I need to shower again. The choices for the metro Philly area include such gems as:
- looking for married or single female for mild spanking and oral sex
- looking for a swing partner
- looking for discrete afternoon sexual relationship
- I only get it once a month at home and want some on the side
This was only in the first 10 ads.

I have heard from others that the "for-fee" on-line personals have a better crop of ads (as Melissa mentioned), but my experience with an expensive dating service makes me very leery.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

Sane, stable, attractive, and single? You are picky, Beth. :-) That stable guy can turn out to be a boring prude after a few months. Where is the line between questionable sanity and refined creativity? What about people who see no need for monogamy? Why does an abstract aspect of culture (beauty which in our culture is intentionally made to make most of us perpetually neurotic) weigh more than other, more tangible, faucets of a person? When people ask where do I go and what do I do to meet the beautiful people and filter out the freaks they are asking the wrong question. In some way everyone is beautiful. In some way everyone is a freak. The question should be how do you find the beauty and understand the freak in everyone?

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

Tracey,

Strangely enough, I am IN the metro Philly area. :-)

The Yahoo ads are a mixed bag. The more detailed my ad is, the better the responses I get. However, I find the guys who post to love.aol.com in Philly are much better, and the match.com guys even better than that. Match gives you a free trial period--during mine I had two really great dates, and that's why I signed up for it.

I was leery too--I met some real freaks last year (not scary, just sort of socially backwards and incapable of communication) on Yahoo. That's why I moved to match and AOL. I am a font of info on personals dating in Philly, so if you want to chat about it more, email me!

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

Cindy, that's exactly how I feel! I don't have an advanced degree, but still...the smart guys seem to just want to mentally masturbate on me and go -- they don't want mutual intellectual stimulation.

Then there are these ones act as if I'm the most gorgeous woman on the planet (which is pretty funny considering all the men who are equally convinced I'm hideous because of some combination of my height, weight, short hair, skin color, etc.). They also tend not to respect or like me for who I am, usually expecting me to be what they'd define as feminine, or "a lady," which is terribly, terribly wrong in my world view. I'm big on railing against gender roles, so there couldn't be a worse match for me than a man who needs me to act girly, naive, delicate, and stupid.

I don't have a much better track record with women. Strippers seem to really like me, I just don't know what to make of that.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

omigod - word to that whole 'fall in love with me but don't like me' thing. every guy i've gone out with in the past year and a half (single again after 4 married years) has been quick to declare undying passion/fascination/etc. and yet so very very slow to admit what i figured out on date four: that he's totally uninterested in my career, dog, new house, friends, and lifestyle. what gives? it's frustrating and confusing and often hurts my feelings terribly. and nine times out of ten i have to be the dumper b/c the guy doesn't get how insulting he is. and dumping folks is never fun, no matter how sick i am of them trying to force some girlfriend template over my actual personality.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

Some of my favorite Yahoo personals "lines" from the backwoods of VA:

I am looking for a woman who will take care of Me and make Me happy. (yes, this relationship is going to be about Me, ladies)

I am a good Catholic man looking for a "brand new woman"...

I am a woman looking for a lover for my husband, because I'm a small woman, and he's such a large man that I can't handle him. (Gee, I wonder what "she" means by that...)

I have also found some all-caps screeds about looking for an obedient god-fearing woman, as well as the usual swingers, married cheaters, and guys who just want to go down on you anonymously/wear your underwear/ have you beat them with a wet towel, etc.

And I've also met one or two pretty nice normal guys. You just have to screen carefully, I think.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

Melissa and I agree on online personals. It worked out very well for me!

one good thing about doing it that way -- at least you know that the other person is looking for *someone* to date, even if it turns out not to be you. Random guys you meet at work or at a friend's house or where ever might not be.

Anita of Anita's BOD and Anita's LOL

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2000

Anita got very lucky--she got a good one!

My favorite quotes from personals are things like:

My goal in life is to be happy.

Thanks. I was hoping to find that one in a million guy whose goal is to be happy. Now tell me the important stuff, like do you watch Buffy and read more than the back of the cereal box and can you carry on a conversation that consists of something other than grunts and glottal clicks.

Oops. Am I being picky? Maybe I could get by without the Buffy part. ;-)

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

Attractive, single and sane? I usually go for two out of three. Like the song. It ain't bad. I like single and sane. I LOVE married and attractive. Married men are the best. They don't get clingy. They don't have room for it in thier lives. And they spoil you rotten. Attractive and single usually doesn't include sane. Or straight. Either way, it's a loss. I don't consider dating married men "lowering the bar". more like "passing the time"! If the mythical Mr. Wonderful ever does show up, and lives at least within 500 miles as me, perhaps I'll give it a whirl. Chances are though, I'll wake up. Sigh!

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

Oh man, I just found the funniest site yesterday that applies to this topic. Way Too Personal: this girl put up a personal ad on a few online systems and started getting your standard responses from freaks and weirdos, and then began to post them on her website, with commentary.

It's not an anti-personals site, as the girl who runs the page actually met friends and I THINK her current SO through the personals, it's just hilarious to see some of the bizarre-ass responses she got to some of her ads.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

"I LOVE married and attractive. Married men are the best. They don't get clingy. They don't have room for it in thier lives. And they spoil you rotten."

Oh HELL no. This kind of woman SCARES me. Does she ever wonder how this married stud's family might suffer while she's being spoiled rotten? Maybe one day wifey finds out about dirty selfish homewrecking beeyotch and finds 'room in her life' to 'get clingy' all over her ass for her. Just something to ponder.

Damn.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

"Does she ever wonder how this married stud's family might suffer while she's being spoiled rotten?"

No. No, she doesn't. She's too busy being spoiled rotten.

I find this attitude loathesome. The "studs" involved are lower than whale shit, too.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

hey, mr. tripps... i understand what you mean about asking the right question. one of the things i'm working on these days is rebuilding my sense of self-like; finding a stable center helps you see the good in others and know what the important questions are. (i'll fully admit to having a little freak in my self, as do we all... it's when the balance goes too far one way that there are problems.)

as for attractive and married - with no great sense of pride, i will admit to having gone down that path once. we were both married, and there was no way his wife would find out. and it did have some benefits, but ultimately it came down to wanting a 'real' relationship - one that i could be open about and proud of, not to mention one with the possibility of lasting.

personal ads, online or otherwise... had only bad experiences with them. the upside is that these days i seem to have found balls of steel and don't fear rejection, so walking up to someone i find attractive and introducing myself holds no great threat. even if they don't work out as dates, i've had the chance to make some good friends.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2000

It seems like a good place to meet women (or at least admire them) is neither the neighborhood watering hole/art supply store/singles mixer but right here in the discussion groups at Squishy! Scores and scores of women having witty intelligent conversation about relationships. Pshaww to Sex and the City.!My little NPR loving ass is hooked!

Kevin

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2000

Ditto to everybody who said it happens when you're not expecting it. I met my husband because he was living in a flat I moved into ... yes, I screwed the crew.

If you really want to meet men, the best way is to up your chances by going out a lot, and try meeting friends of friends all the time - any parties are always a good option.

But never set your bar lower.

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2000

terry said:

"I swear I know it's completely cliche', but it will happen when you're not looking."

in my case, i found him while I was busy looking at someone else. :)

laural then wrote:

"("You can always meet people on the internet!")"

hey, don't knock the internet. i've had particular luck with internet. no freaks yet. :)

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2000

Erica, I totally agree with you about gender roles.

I have short hair, which I don't really want to cut because of the weather (I live in the tropics) and I'm not a big fan of skirts because I'm an active sort. Somehow, the men will see this and interpret, wrongly, that I'm lesbian or anti-men.

Why is it that so many of the men I meet insist on sticking by the conventional gender roles and stereotypes? All the guys I get along with see me as a buddy, someone to drink and smoke and cuss with them. And I refuse to change myself just to suit some male-imposed notion of beauty.

Needless to say, I haven't been on a date in a really long time...

-- Anonymous, October 20, 2001