I know this is a personal question but I would like other people's opinion.

I have a Bichon Frise. She is 15 years old. She can only see shadows and can only hear when you yell at her, then she thinks you are yelling at her. She hasn't barked in a year. She no longer has run of the house since she forgets and "goes" wherever she happens to be even though I have now put down newspaper for her. Then she will walk around and around in her mess until I find it. She still sometimes uses her doggie door, usually after she has messed. If you go to pet her, she turns to bite. If you get her used to your touch and try to pick her up, she struggles and tries to bite. (She hasn't bitten yet but..)

She isn't in any pain. In the morning she will run into the kitchen waiting for her food. She has on two occasions gotten out and wandered towards the woods. Actually running (as fast as an old dog can hobble) away from me when she realized I was coming for her. (Looking for a place to die?)

Now here is the guilty part. We are going on vacation. How can I leave her to anyone else to take care of? Most kennels will not take older animals and most veternarians will not board. A friend offered to care for her in my house but she will have constant messes to clean and I'm afraid she may get bitten. I was thinking of fixing a place in the barn but everyone thinks that's mean. (I thought I'd try it the week before to see if it is okay)

I think it would be easier to decide too, if my husband grandmother, who is 96, wasn't still alive. Nana can't see or hear well, and she is having accidents around the house too. Well, we are not deciding to put her to sleep. Then again, before her mind wandered, she would say that she was ready to go, she's so tired.

Please understand, this is not open for my direct e-mail. I do not want my son to know I am considering this. Thanks for any thoughts.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), August 03, 2000

Answers

Dee, my thoughts and prayers are with you. Three years ago, I had to put my 16yr. dachshund down and it broke my heart! I fought the vet,my husband, friends and my own mind for 7 months and then I finally realized I was keeping her alive for me. It sounded just like what you have described. Some good days but many more bad days. I do hope you find the answer you are looking for. I wish there was somethhing I could say to make it easier for you.

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), August 03, 2000.

We keep animals as long as possible but when it becomes a quality of life issue, the quantity of life is not even secondary. It is obvious you love this little dog or you wouldn't even consider the issue of "guilt." I figured out a long time ago that there are far worse things in this life than passing from it whether the life is a human or animal and continual nagging pain, "messing" and misunderstanding a loved owner's intentions have to be high on the animal list.

Believe it or not, it is actually easier for me to be with the animal at its point of death from euthanasia. I have done my grieving beforehand and although I invariably cry, I can walk away with a clear heart. It may be wishful thinking on my part but my animal seems calmer if I am able to touch and hold it even if the hold exposes the vein about to be injected. Usually my hands are the first thing to touch my animals--maybe they should be the last. My biggest complaint about the vet I currently use is that she won't let me stay with my animal.

My prayers are with you. Been there, done that and it's the pits.

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), August 03, 2000.

I have recently had to deal with some of the same things you are right now. My dog was 15 years old and I adopted her from an animal shelter 14 years ago. It was a sad decsion to make to have her put down but It was the right one, age was no longer treating her fairly and things were dificult for her. I have necies and nephews that grew up with her and they were quite crushed but I think they understood my decsion. The Kids could see her suffering as I am sure your Kids can too. We did the whole "funeral & memorial" thing and it helped us all.

You say that she is not in any pain but sadly she probaly is. She sounds like she is quite confused and probaly frightened. Puting her in the barn will confuse her more, I would consider putting her asleep before you go away.

Don't try to compare her to Nana it is really two seperate issues and would confuse your Children more, they know the difference no matter their ages.

GOOD LUCK to you and your Family through these difficult times!

-- Mark (deadgoatman@webtv.net), August 03, 2000.

I agree with Mark. Look at it from your dogs point of view. She knows she isn't supposed to go in the house, but can't help it. Now she's let you down (guilt) and expects punishment(fear), even though I can't beleive you would do so. She's always being yelled at (as far as she knows (fear, confusion) and can't see much (fear, confusion) and to top it off you, the alpha pack leader are obviously disappointed in her for all of these things, because that's what and alpha pack leader is expected to feel, as far as she's concerned. And then she gets exiled and you go away (confusion, fear, loneliness, frustration) and she is forcibly kept away form her pack. Not a good thing. I know where you're coming from, as I have several pets (all strays) and would be devasted to be in your position. But I couldn't, in respect for my companions, put them through pain and suffering to save myself the same. God bless you and help you through this, your time of need, whichever one you believe in.

-- Soni Pitts (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 03, 2000.

I make this decision based on happiness. I put down a doe when she can no longer go out to graze with her herd mates. I put down a buck when he no longer can breed, their all time favorite past time. I put down a dog when they can no longer interact with the family that loves them and with the other animlas they have helped raised. We like you are at this point also. Our elder ridgeback was simply not going to make it another summer with fleas as bad as they are, then they came out with Biospot and we are flealess. She still lays in the soil of my dug up flower bed, but she does come out during the evening and early mornings to follow me doing chores and lick her babies (7 month old does who think she has lost her mind) :) She leaks urine but with the echinacea she hasn't had a bladder infection yet. When she stops coming to do chores I will know it is time. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 04, 2000.

Dee, i don't think i need to add too much more to what has already been said. i agree with everyone here. if you leave her in the barn it is likely she will pass while you are gone and that would be a lot harder to explain to your children. don't put her down without telling your children beforehand. this happened to me and i was devastated. your dog is absolutely different than your mother, no one will confuse the difference. i guess i had more to add than i thought. you will do what is right for both you and your family. God bless.

-- Amber (ambrosia75_@hotmail.com), August 04, 2000.

Dee: You sound a little troubled like you have to make the decision alone. I used to take all these type problems and have familly meetings. Everyone got to have their opinions heard everyone got to be a part of the solutions. Anyway I was always surprised how as a team our decisions seemed to make everyone feel much better....sorry if this isn't much help.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yhoo.com), August 04, 2000.

Hi everyone,

I'm sitting here crying but feeling better.

I guess I should also mention that I used to be an animal control officer and had to put many animals to sleep. I guess I never got over that guilt either and it is flowing over onto this decision.

My husband gets mad about the messes so he is ready.(He wasn't raise with animals and although he wouldn't hurt them, they are mine) My son said he would never talk to me again. He is 12, and complains about her but was there for him his whole life. He said she isn't in pain but what everyone mentioned makes so much sense.

I don't think I'm gonna get another dog unless I keep it outside for guard. Think that is cruel sometimes too, though.

Anyone else want to contribute their thoughts and memories, please do, I may as well get all my crying out now. And it seems to help.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), August 04, 2000.

If you had to live like she is would you want to ? Not only do you have to think of her saftey but yours . She hasn't bitten yet but might soon .It doesn't seem like she has a good quality of life , so I think its time .I worked with a vet and you should be able to stay with her .They will put the needle in the vein , pull a little blood back and then inject .It is very fast and painless , they just go to sleep .I only wish we could be so kind and end human suffering so kindly .God bless and you are making the best decission to put her down .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), August 04, 2000.

The time is now.

-- Hendo (OR)r (redgate@echoweb.net), August 04, 2000.

Hi,

I can only speak from the perspective of a cat owner (no dogs yet).

Over the past 14 years my wife & I have lost many cats. We believe the ones that have joined our home did so for a reason. And we believe t's our responsibility to take the best care of them as we can. We've gotten kittens to 'un-age' the older cats (it works !) and enjoyed the older cats training the young'ins to the rules of the house.

When the end comes for one of the herd, there is usually a disagreement between my wife and myself. She wants to do everything possible to keep the cat alive, including whatever household 'modifications' may be necessary. As was graphically (and grievously) brought out during the last death in our herd, my wife was keeping the cat around more for her than for the sake of the animal. I don't think she'll make that error again. But it was a learning experience for her, none the less.

I tend to think in quality-of-life terms. If the animal is 'happy' (you decide what that means, we all know that we can tell...) and has no suffering, then great. But if the animal is suffering in any manner and no longer participating in those activities we know it enjoyed, then it's time to make some decisions.

I've been with a number of our cats when they were put down. I firmly belive I *must* be with them that time. I've taken care of them throughout their life and it's my responsibility to see them through. It is an issue of caring and love, plain and simple. The positive aspect of this event, is seeing the release from their suffering and them relax. I don't know how it is with other animals but with our cats it has been a sequence of relaxing, a period of conscious response - knowing I was with them, and finally a quiet death.

And for what it's worth, we always include some of 'their' possessions when they are laid to rest.

Hope some of this helps.

j

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), August 04, 2000.

I've never had the courage to do that. Also, it kind of irritates me to hear people say "put the pet to sleep". They're not put to sleep, they're "killed". I had a 15 year old cat who got real sick and his liver was failing. I spent $1,600 on the vet so I could get one more year out of him. Finally he died one morning as I sat next to him and talking to him. I would never have a pet killed unless he was injured beyond help and suffering. That's just my feelings.

-- Joe Cole (jcole@apha.com), August 04, 2000.

I would not dismiss your child's feelings, Dee. He is attached to the dog and considers her to be family. Perhaps if the dog isn't in pain, which you believe she isn't, you could build a shelter for her near the house, near enough so that she could have some interaction with you and your son, but without the mess and without the guilt for her. Maybe you could make a shelter of old hay or something, if cost or building ability is a problem. If you could keep her outside you might all be happier. I don't believe that it is cruel to keep a dog outside. It is their natural place, although some dogs can certainly enjoy being inside. She would probably be confused for a little while, but should get over it.

We have a cat that is totally blind. She stays outside because that is where she has always been. She has been totally blind for at least 18 months, and is still doing well. When we try to pet her she usually bites, then decides it is us and just wants to be petted. When we pick her up, she struggles and sometimes tries to bite. I think it is because when we pick her up, she doesn't know where she is anymore when we put her down, and then she has to bump into things until she recognizes her new location.

Good luck with the situation, whatever you decide.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), August 04, 2000.

Dee I am sorry you are in this position, but i want to add that the biting she is doing when she is picked up may indicate that she IS painful. She has had a long and (Iassume) happy life. Animals are lucky that we can make a decision for them to leave this world with dignity, not suffer the way we force people to. I work at a pet emergency clinic and see many suffering animals life humanely ended. (I think when you 'put to sleep' a healthy but unwanted animal then KILL is the correct term, but whenyou are ending suffering euthanize is a more compassionate term) Please don't leave your little girl in the barn, it would be unfair. Also at 12 I didn't understand death either. Would your vet be helpful in talking to your son? Take Care

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), August 04, 2000.

Dee , I have to disagree with Joe putting an animal to sleep is not killing it . It is putting an end to suffering , your pet has no quality of life .You also must think of its own saftey as well as yours .I don't believe putting it outside is a good option , the dog is not used to it and will not be happy .Also it could easily be attacked by another animal.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), August 04, 2000.

I agree that it is time to put this poor little dog down. (Did she ever get house-broken? My oldest daughter has a young Bichon Frise and she still isn't house-broken!) It is sad, but animals just don't have the same lifespan that people do. Probably better to do it now than to have your son get up some morning and find the little dog dead.

That said, this is going to sound hard to some of you, but (generalizing now, not referring to the little dog above) when an animal is sick or hurt and the vet bills are going to be more than we can afford, then we put the animal down, pet or not. We take good care of our critters, but they are not people, and if their care is going to take money that should be going to essentials (beyond the normal amount budgeted for their care), then it is time to put the animal down. Jesus himself said that it wasn't right to take food out of the children's mouths and give it to the dogs. We've had our cat for ten years, love her dearly, she sleeps on my pillow whenever she's in the house at night -- but she is still an animal, not people, and if the time ever comes that we have to make a decision like that above, I won't agonize over it (too much!). I WILL miss her, hope she's around for a long time yet. I realize that some people can afford more vet care than others can -- and don't like to see people criticized for not getting more vet care than they can afford -- but an awful lot of people anthropomorphize animals, i.e., pretend that animals are people, and I really believe that is a mistake. If animals were people, Adam could have chosen one of the animals he named for a helpmeet, instead of God having to create woman!! :-) I have sympathized with Renee's concern over the horses going to slaughter, and certainly they should go under humane conditions, but it really isn't any worse to slaughter horses for meat than any other animal. I know, they have been close companions of man most of their lives, and it's kind of like contemplating eating your faithful old dog -- actually, I had a hard time eating a couple of faithful old milk goats -- I suppose that's why most horsemeat in this country ends up as dog food. I wouldn't eat it myself unless I was starving. But morally there is no more wrong with butchering horses for meat than there is with butchering cattle or sheep or chickens. Whew, glad to get that off my chest. Like I said, you may think I'm hard, and I guess I am more practical than sentimental, but "Animals are NOT little people in fur coats!" I get so tired of that wretched bumper sticker! And so often the same person will have a pro-abortion sticker, too!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), August 04, 2000.

before you make a decision take your son and the dog to the vets,I read in a magazine that they have a drug to help older animal which are having memory problems. Its worth a try and If they cant help at least It will give your son a second opinion and you can bring the dog back latter if you need to.

-- kathyh (saddlebronc@msn.com), August 04, 2000.

Amen Kathleen, I agree with you 100%!

-- barbara (barbaraj@mis.net), August 04, 2000.

Dee, I'm so sorry you are going through this. We lost our wonderful lab a few years ago and I still tear up when I think of her. But her time had come and it sounds as though your dog's time has come also. Her sight won't come back, her hearing won't improve, her quality of life will never be as it was, and she probably IS in pain. Don't do as I did and wait until she starts having convulsions. It's horrible to see. Just my opinion, but I also think that putting her in the barn would just frighten and confuse her more. Maybe it's time for her to find some peace. My heart goes out to you.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), August 04, 2000.

Oh, Dee, it is always a hard decision. My heart goes out to you! I've had many different experiences with the death of animals, the circumstances and whether I had them euthanized or not. It sounds to me as if the time has come, but ultimately, you will have to decide. Regarding the biting, it seems that she may have become senile and not "know" you anymore. In that case, she is probably scared and confused most of the time.

I don't think it is cruel to keep an animal outside, per se, but Bichons were bred to be lap dogs and probably aren't as hardy as many other dogs. In addition, she is not used to being outside -- at the best of times this would be confusing and anxiety-producing. At her age, it seems cruel. If she does recognize you and remember you still, she will feel abandoned.

My sister (to whom I am very close) is going through many of these same issues with her 15 y-o Westie terrier, though her dog is not as bad off yet. Please understand, I am not trying to make you feel guilty, but she would give up her vacation rather than leave her dog. I have done the same with elderly pets. My point is that perhaps your son is seeing this as euthanizing the dog "just for convenience" so that you can go on vacation. I would suggest that, if you decide on euthanasia, you explain to him that the dog was suffering, and that the decision was made to be kind to the dog, not for your convenience. Sometimes the best thing you can do is decide what is best for the animal and then stand by your decision and take the flak.

One caution about euthanasia. FREQUENTLY it is painless and peaceful -- I've seen them go that way. SOMETIMES it is NOT. Just 5 weeks ago I made the very painful decision to end my cat's suffering (his heart and kidneys were failing and he was drowning in retained fluid in his lungs, but very slowly). I was assured that it was quick and painless. I won't horrify you with the details, but it was truly horrible.

I wish now that I had insisted (instead of just enquiring) he be given a tranquilizer first. I was told that the drug was an overdose of a sedative/tranquilizer. I found out after the horrible end that it included an agent that stops the heart, and sometimes that works first before the sedative. I urge you to demand the sedative first. I also agree you should be there for it. I walked out on one before the final injection, and I have always been haunted by that.

I am still mourning my beloved cat, who was young and became ill for no apparent reason, and was gone within 5 days. However, just yesterday I went to the Humane Society and came home with another cat. There are so many animals out there who need our love and our hearts have a great capacity for love. This cat is in no way a replacement or substitute for the cat I lost -- he is a tribute to my little guy, who was himself in desperate need of a home when I took him in. The "new" cat is not the same as the "old" cat, but he will be loved for himself.

Sorry for the length of this post! -- Joy F.

-- J E FROELICH (dragnfly@chorus.net), August 05, 2000.

i truly feel for you. i have only had to do it once and that was to a dog i had had for 14 years. i finally decided he had to be put down when i had to carry him outside then hold him up so he could go. i was willing to do this until he started whinning when i held him then i knew i was causing him pain so had to do it. another thought to is think of all the great memories you have now of your pet do you really want your last memory to be the time it bit your son? it is a question only you and your family can make but if it is time do it and know you have done the right thing. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef123@hotmail.com), August 05, 2000.

We had a cat for 17 years, most of my life at that time, I remember the depression of having her put to sleep but she had cancer & was suffering. I'm not saying it isn't hard & that people shouldn't grieve for their pets, but when my dad died in January (at 65) it sure put things in perspective. I got over not having that beautiful calico, but now at 31 I have a lot of years left without a dad.

-- Lenore (archambo@winco.net), August 05, 2000.

THANK YOU everyone for your thoughts and input.

A friend has volunteered to take my dog during vacation. She said she did not mind cleaning up after her and would wear gloves if she had to pick her up.

After "talking" to all of you, I looked at Crystal different and know it is time. At least now, I know I am doing it for the right reasons and not because of my vacation. That is what was making the decision hard.

Thank you all again.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), August 05, 2000.

Dee, thankyou for this website. We are going through the same thing right now. I am making myself sick over trying to decide. We have a 14 year old cocker spaniel and he can't hear and can only see very little. He coughs and gags alot and has problems breathing, his hind legs shake when he's standing up and I can tell he hurts when we pick him up. He stays close to me all day and at night he sleeps in the door way so he knows when we get up because he can't hear. I have fell over him several times not knowing he was so near me, I am so afraid of hurting him when I trip over him. He don't go very far from the house when he's outside anymore. He also runs in the kitchen when it's time to eat. Thanks again and God Bless, Larry and Susan

-- Susan Sappington (saylors@gorge.net), February 22, 2001.