Our poor collie in her valiant efforts to protect us has once again been the victim of snake bite. Copperhead. How many times does she have to get bitten by one before she becomes imune ( if possible ) or dies.She does not seem to be as bad off this time. She is not out of her mind but her throat is pretty swolen.And she is slobbering considerably. She can still drink but is having problems eating.She was bitten last evening. The snake was pretty small ,not more than a foot long ( if that makes a difference.)I am trying to just keep her still and quiet. Which will not be easy if it storms here ,which it looks like it is going to do very soon.For all her bravery with snakes she is deathly afraid of thunder.Thanks folks.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), August 04, 2000

Answers

Bonnie, at our farm we have lots of copperheads and it seems on of our dogs are always "finding" one! We offer the dog canned food and fresh water. I had one dog who was biten six different times and she never became immuned or died! We have one who had to have surgery after the swelling didn't go down in 2 months and 4 rounds of antibodies... His neck still swells every time he gets sick. Good luck.

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), August 04, 2000.

If I had to chose a poisonous snake to have around, it would be the copperhead. Read an article in, I think, Field and Stream on poisonous snakes. Said there has not been a documented case of a human dying from a copperhead bite. Call your vet or emergency room. They may have anti-vemon they can give you to inject.

Since moving to the farm I have become more acceptable of snakes, but still doesn't mean I like them. When I was a youngster my older brother put one down the back of my shirt. Same brother who held me by my ankles and dipped my hair in the outhouse contents.

-- Ken S. (scharabo@aol.com), August 04, 2000.

I remember reading in Countryside a time someone was bitten by a snake and could not get to hospital fast enough. They told this person to apply a paste made of activated charcoal, kept wet with towels - reapplying every 10 minutes. The article said the wound was no longer enflamed and looked normal. They gave the anti-venium anyway but didn't think they needed to.

I have put the charcoal on multiple paper wasps stings. My husband was not in pain and did not get a fever. The next day he said it hurt a little when he push on it. I put charcoal on poison ivy too. And while I'm at it, I take it before long drives and do not get car sick.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), August 04, 2000.

Benadryl or a similar product will reduce the swelling. The drooling and eating problems are probably related to the swelling and will clear up once the benadryl takes effect. When your dog is bit by a poisonous critter whose venom causes swelling, you should always give them some right away. Depending on where the bite was, it could make the difference between life and death.

-- William in WI (thetoebes@webtv.net), August 04, 2000.

Well just got back home and she seems worse. Her nose is hot and dry. I am not sure she can shut her mouth. It seems to be swollen too. I wonder if benadryl would help her? Probably not but it is for allergic reaction and swelling. I can't find the actual bite because of the hair. Is it where she is swollen? Last time I guess it was her mouth she got bit on. Her throat and her toung swelled up, though she had actually bit through her own toung.It looked like a huge blister on bottom of her toung. I remember when I was a kid we had a dog that got snake bit and same thing happened to it and my dad took his pocket knife out and stuck her where she was swollen ( lanced I guess would be propper way to say that)It drained and pup was fine next day. I sure thought he killed her though. I really can't afford to go to vet.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), August 04, 2000.

I agree with the benadryl, and the charcoal. I also read an article recently about a dog that was bit by a rattlesnake. The man immediately began soaking the affected part in epsom salts. After a few minutes he said you could see a residue begin leaking into the water. When he no longer saw anything coming out, he stopped soaking, gave the dog some food and water, and left the dog to rest. The dog never had swelling and was never even sick. The next morning the dog was up running around.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), August 04, 2000.

I don't know if you can get homeopathic remedies where you are, but Lachesis would probably fix her up. If you can get it, put a couple of pillules/tablets on her tongue every 15 minutes until you see some improvement or change, or till she falls asleep (a good sign in homeopathy -- it means the remedy has begun acting and the patient needs to sleep to let their system respond and repair.) Or dissolve a few in pure water (distilled is good, but mainly it should not be chlorinated) and pour a teaspoon in the side of her mouth every 15 minutes as above. When you see any change for better or for worse, stop giving the remedy: let it act. There is a homeopathic remedy made from copperhead poison, but it is rare -- you would have to order it. If you cannot get Lachesis where you are, I have some and I would be happy to express mail it to you if you were to e-mail me your address. If you can get homeopathic remedies locally but they just don't have Lachesis, you might try Arsenica Album, which has swelling of the throat and poisoning & septic states, but moreover is very calming , so if she seems to be getting delirious, it will quiet her. Usually , one hit of Ars.Alb will do the trick. I have used this on myself many times and it is a remarkable medicine. Good luck to you both.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), August 04, 2000.

Bonnie, my brother once told me that a small poisinous snake usually will inject more venum when they bite. Seems they are younger and are a little over zealous. The adults know intinctively how much venom to inject, so as not to needlessly waste the venom. Your dog might have gotten a real healthy dose of venom. Is your dog a fairly large breed? The answers above sound like real good tips. Praying she gets to feeling better soon.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), August 04, 2000.

our dog steped on a dying rattlesnake and though it didnt look like she had been bitten I took her to the vet any way,80 dollars latter I left with anahistimen and the vet said the biggest problem with snake bite is infection from there dirty teeth so grace was on antibotics for 2 weeks.Hope it works out ok.

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), August 04, 2000.

Bonnie... I am so sorry to hear your poor dog was bitten by a copperhead. We too live in copperhead and moccassin terrotory and have to always be on the lookout. A few months ago when one of our doe kids was bitten we used benedryl and a "tonic" our neighbor made. The tonic consists of taking a weed... its a air ballon shaped leaf and grows rampant here in VA., was in NY too. anyways..has a purplish stem. I wish i could recall the name of it off the top of my head, maybe someone will know. Take a handful of these leaves, place in a pot, warm a qt of milk and then feed the milk to the animal. this remedy takes the swelling down and acts as an anitvenom. Also.. you can go to http://www.goatworld.com they have an ER room there where you can e-mail someone and get help. Hope this helps. Good luck.

Bernice

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), August 04, 2000.

I am living proof a 18 inch Copperhead cannot kill. Stranded without a car my grandfather cut my arm wide open after I ran home snake bit. I got flu sick--nothing more ! Now I can smell that sick-sweet smell of a copperhead 20 foot before he is there !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 04, 2000.

The benadryl seems to be working. Her nose is not so hot. Cooler and wet now. Was hard to keep her cool today. The heat index was 106! The swelling seems to be down a little; at least in her mouth. I hope it is not going to get infected. The swelling went down a lot sooner last time. Made her runny scrambled eggs for dinner. She ate real slow, but she ate some.Should I give her the benedryl every 4 hours like kids? I guess it can't hurt her. Thanks for being there.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), August 04, 2000.

Bonnie... I just thought of something else.. we use a natural product for our goats called Immuno-G, get it from this site, http://www.springbriar.com It works wonders. Its similiar to ID-1 or goat stress.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), August 04, 2000.

Noel; That's the collies name.( she was a christmas present 2 years ago ) Seems to be more entergetic today but the swelling in chin and throat area is still there. It looks like it's going to be another hot one today.I really thought swelling would be gone and this would be done by now. She is not drooling now. I will keep ya'll informed. Thanks

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), August 05, 2000.

Bonnie, This is going to sound too weird to be true but it works for us. At least the dog never dies and the swelling lasts only a day. If the bite is recent (within an hour or so) we use a stun gun on the bite site. The dog will be real spooky around you for awhile but will survive the bite. I'm told that it has something to do with changing the "polarity" of the venom. Good luck, John and Pat

-- John and Pat James (jjames@n-jcenter.com), August 05, 2000.

Noel ( The collie ) is doing great. The swelling is nearly all gone. You can hardly tell she was ever bitten. She is back to her usual frisky self. Thanks to all my friends for all the great advise and especially for careing. Love ya'll.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), August 06, 2000.

The wife is an instructor trainer for the Red Cross and wanted me to pass on a few bits. Electric shock is a definite NO with snakebite, as is cutting and sucking. It rarely helps the victim and puts the rescuer at great rick from the venom. Also NO ICE because it actually causes the body to draw blood away from the site faster, taking it to the heart. They also do not recommend tourniquets, they're too dangerous.

By the way, out of 8,000 poisonous snake bites anually in the US, only 8 are likely to die, mostly because of allergic reaction, existing breathing dificulty, or being very old or young.

-- Rod Perrino (redjouster@aol.com), August 07, 2000.

A dogs physiological system differs greatly from a humans. The old home remedy of eggs,milk and grease, while sounding odd, actually help their systems expel poisons. We found with our dogs that feeding them 2 cups milk, 2 raw eggs and 2 tablespoons bacon grease within an hour of the bite helped them to keep injesting water to pass the poison through their system quicker. Of course they "stayed on deaths door" a day or two, but as long as they kept their kidneys working, they always made it. I asked our vet about it and he could only say "its one of those things that seems to work "and he also pointed out that arsnic is used for heartworms and expellled through the kidneys.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), August 08, 2000.

Read in the local paper this evening where an 80+ year old woman was pullin weeds in her garden. Towards the end of the row a snake bit her on her little finger. She didn't get excited-just went to the garden shed and got her hoe. She went back to where she'd been bitten and there ole mr. snake was a waitin with his'n mouth open. She said she couldn't count high enough to know how many times she hit'm with the hoe. She then went in the house and called her son. She had two joints of her little finger removed because of the poison, I guess. Old mr. snake was a watermoccican! I STILL hate snakes whether poison or not. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), August 08, 2000.

Ken -- and you and your brother DO like each other now, right? Or did he not make it through adolescence without becoming bear-bait???

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), August 08, 2000.

What do water moccasin and copperheads look like? I don't like reptiles and detest snakes. I'm sorry to hear about your pet. Could you call the vet or a local emergency room for ideas on what to do, i.e. they shouldn't charge you? Best Wishes, wj

-- Wendy Jo (wendyjo2@shawneelink.net), August 11, 2000.