In sports games like tdfever, does the one-credit rule apply? There are submissions that were obviously recorded for full games. In looking through previous postings, I really couldn't find a definitive answer either way. A confirmation would be helpful, please!

Thanks.

-boxster

-- boxster (qmjcd@hotmail.com), August 08, 2000

Answers

Games are meant to be played as played, so for clarifications:

TouchDown Fever - As long as you win your game, you may continue to the next hardest game. If you tie or lose, then you are done.

Relief Pitcher - Normal settings (NOT MAME settings) would award you a free inning (in essence, a free coin-in) to continue the game if you WIN your previous encounter. So if you tie/lose, your done. If win, continue.

Both of these circumstances are since the game continues to get harder the further into the game you go. The multiple coins would not work for instance, with Blades of Steel or Double Drible.

Hope this clarifies things.

Chris MARP/CMP Network/TG Knockout tournament "King of Arcade"

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 08, 2000.

The information posted above by Chris Parsley is false. Sports games, like all other games, are currently one credit only. This has been a subject of debate in the past at MARP, and will be raised again later this fall, along with two other topics.

Please feel free to record an entire game in case the rule does change, but submit only your score for the first credit. If you are aware of scores which do not follow this guideline, please send a quick e-mail to myself, Gameboy9, skito, BenJos, or Pat Laffaye, and we will correct the score.

Thank-you, Q.T.Quazar, MARP Rules Coordinator

-- Q.T.Quazar (qan@home.com), August 09, 2000.

Thanks, QT. I kind of assumed that that was the case, but I thought that I'd find out for sure before uploading too many more inps.

-- boxster (qmjcd@hotmail.com), August 09, 2000.

QT, you twit. (At least that is the first thing I thought, and I'll let everyone know why)

I was asked about six months ago, to make an entire accounting of sports games, so I did a lot of research. The results of that research found some things.

One, most sports games DEFAULTS were not what the MameDev team set for defaults. The example here is Relief Pitcher, where the player is to continue as long as he/she (there are female players) doesn't lose the game.

Two, other sports game were built to be continued, as they get harder with each successive game in order. The example here would be TouchDown Fever, where the opponents get harder and harder with each successive opponent.

When I did this research, I was told by the people at MARP that fine, games that continue to get harder with additional coin in, and can only be played that way would be that way, while the rest would be one coin only. Examples of 1-coin only: Double Dribble, Blades of Steel, Atari Baseball, Football etc...

Now, QT, where did we do a total 180 on the idea and went to 1-coin only???

Chris Parsley MARP/MAME/TG "King of Arcade" tournament coordinator Twin Galaxies Referree/Judge in training

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 09, 2000.

Hmmmm...so let me get this right. Since games like Tempest, Marble Madness, Black Widow, Toobin' and Crystal Castles (uhh, did I miss any more Atari games? :^) continue to get harder, I can 'continue' with these also.

Interesting...that's why the 1-coin only rule has got to be the way to go. Anything else opens up a whole new can of worms.

JoustGod

-- JoustGod (pinballwiz1@msn.com), August 09, 2000.

No, JG, and you know it. This is limited to A) Sports Games B) Games that are meant to be play as multi-coin games. In the example of Relief Pitcher, it would be a one-coin only game if the settings were right, allowing player to continue if win.

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 09, 2000.

Actually Q.T. - I believe Chris is correct this time.

I believe a majority agreed to do relief pitcher(keep playing until you lose or tie I think) a different way - among other things. I had a golf game where I played the entire way instead of one credit - simply because you'll have a 6 billion-way tie.(everybody could only play either 1 or 2 holes wheather you liked it or not on default)

But the point is - if the majority says play it a different way - and in relief pitcher as far as I see it they did - then let's keep playing it that way. I came around to these games well before I became an editor and I went OK - that's fine with me. Makes sense - otherwise it's a 6-billion way tie as far as I see it playing only one game.

Thanks for reading. GB9

-- Gameboy9 (goldengameboy@yahoo.com), August 09, 2000.

a) Maintain the rules of politeness and no swearing on the message board.

You might want to have a read over that RULES page at some point, CP. You might also want to quit cross posting tourney plugs with regular posts. Hell, you might even want to find some, nay, ANY evidence that we ever decided on anyhting other than a 1 credit rule for sports games. The only thing I recall was you complaining in another post that TD Fever should be played to allow you to continue.

I have no problem with this idea in principle, but it isn't how things are working right now, and it's not fair to other players who have been playing sports games on a single credit.

Being polite never hurt anyone, Q.T.Quazar, MARP Rules Coordinator

-- Q.T.Quazar (qan@home.com), August 09, 2000.

QT, if you got a problem with me, say it.

LAST TIME I LOOKED, Twit is not a profane word. And it applied to your position, not you.

Second, the "cross-post" was exactly relevant, as someone was complaining about normal tourney being boring, so I suggested.

Third, you must have had your head buried, as we had a long debate on this topic a while back! I search in my mind to see where it was from.

I propose if you still want to stick with your ruling, QT, that we put it to a vote here and now to see what should be done. Is that acceptable?

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 10, 2000.

QT, if you got a problem with me, say it.

>LAST TIME I LOOKED, Twit is not a profane word. And it applied to your position, not you.

I don't have aproblem with you, Chris. I have a problem with your attitude when posting. No, twit is not profane. Yes it is rude. Calling someone a twit is a rude statement to any English-speaker. If you want to call me misinformed, fine. If you want to say I'm wrong, that's fine too, but don't do so in all-caps either.

>Second, the "cross-post" was exactly relevant, as someone was complaining about normal tourney being boring, so I suggested.

Your post had nothing to do with the topic at hand, ie: Tourney 5 analysis and congrats. What you had to say was better said in a private e-mail to BBH. Not that it matters much, as I'm sure everyone will agree, but if it was only directed to BBH, why did the whole list of Bulletin Board users need to get msg'd about it?

>Third, you must have had your head buried, as we had a long debate on this topic a while back! I search in my mind to see where it was from.

Here's the rudeness back again, and why? To tell me that I'm worng about something that you still can't remember? That's not what I call an effective argument. As I recall, no consensus was reached, but the topics of Relief Pitcher and Touch Down Fever were breached.

>I propose if you still want to stick with your ruling, QT, that we put it to a vote here and now to see what should be done. Is that acceptable?

To be perfectly honest, right now, no it isn't. There has been almost no discussion recently on the issue, so most players aren't aware if the rule would be binding to all sports games or just specific ones. Secondly, it isn't MY ruling, it's a general rule for MARP. Third, if the ruling does pass, that's ANOTHER subset of rules at MARP, with likely ANOTHER page that people need to read. Now, I am in the process of building a special scoring page, which would explain strange scoring systmes on games, and a sports games ruling could fit easily on that page. But that's another page on the MARP server that chances are noone will read. That's another problem that the community needs to solve. There are definitely some players who are starting to grumble 'too many rules', and so, to be honest, I'm loathe to post anything resembling a vote lately on MARP. For this, I accept my fair share of responsibility for my role, but I do think we have squashed most of the bugs that had cropped up 10 months ago at MARP.

And Chris, as a MARPer to a fellow MARPer, if you respond to everything on this board that you disagree to with absolute vehemence or high-handed arrogance, people are going to quit listening to you. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I'm not trying to be impolite. I think you shoud have a read over your last few posts, and your other posts to the message board before that, and seriously reconsider how you approach posting on this board. Absolutism is not the best process for convincing people of your moral right.

Sincerely, Q.T.Quazar

-- Q.T.Quazar (qan@home.com), August 10, 2000.

Um... WTF? Chris, you're putting words in my mouth now?

Quote you: "Second, the "cross-post" was exactly relevant, as someone was complaining about normal tourney being boring, so I suggested."

Which was in reference to my previous post: "I must say that yes, after all is said and done I did enjoy the selection of games more than the previous tourneys. But my usual "burnout" kicked in, why buck tradition?"

That remark was made since I have a habit of uploading a bunch of recordings at the beginning and then moving on to play other stuff during the rest of the tournament. I don't want to play the same 8 or 10 games during a two-month time period. But did I say that the tourney was BORING? No, I did not. I did not say anything like "Ohhh, this style of tournament is so dull, I wish somebody would come up with a new style of tournament!" Believe me, I knew about your 'King of Arcade' tourney prior to typing that, and I had already made a post before stating that I did not intend to play in it. But yet for some reason you feel the need to pitch the tournament to me, on this message board and then on IRC.

Getting back to the original point, the thread was intended to be about T4 (sort of like this thread was intended to be about sports games like Touchdown Fever, but it's spiralling out of control). Making a post to plug your tourney (which you somehow must've thought would be enough reason to "win me over" and get me to join) in that thread was unnecessary, and as QT noted, everyone that has mail alerts on for this board receives a message that is of absolutely no use to them. This would have been much better suited as a private mail, even though the receipient (me) would have little use for it anyway.

Idea: Work on your reading skills before making your next tourney plug.

-BBH

-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), August 10, 2000.

Hi, it's me. You know, the original poster?

Anyway, I have to agree with QT in that it certainly seems that this discussion was never resolved in the past, which is why I posted this in the first place.

In searching the boards, all I could find were a few discussions, one from almost exactly a year ago, where the topic was never resolved. Everyone had their opinions and pretty much stuck to them.

Here's my opinion: I think that if you allow multiple-credit games, you introduce a pretty big problem - you'll have to establish different rules for every game that doesn't follow the regular rules (which, as QT mentioned, state pretty clearly that games are to be one-credit only.) Do you allow continues for a full game? Multiple games as long as you keep winning?

Plus, you'll have to publish those rules somewhere that everyone (like me) can see them so that everyone knows what they are and will hopefully, post consistently.

On the other hand, if only one credit is allowed, you could potentially have a zillion-way tie for 1st in games like tdfever because if you play it enough times and figure out the controls, you'll get 14 points. I'm not sure that's really the answer either.

On a third hand (ha!), what do you do with games like Arch Rivals? Using Chris' theory, would you play a full game (multiple credits, obviously) as long as you're always ahead? There's enough variation in the game to allow score differentiation with only one credit. So, what then?

Bottom line: if multiple-credit games are allowed, someone (the voting public, I would guess) will need to determine EXACTLY which games to allow and then post this information conspicuously and often. Otherwise, you'll have problems with inconsistent uploads and it will become a verification nightmare.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong....

-- boxster (qmjcd@hotmail.com), August 10, 2000.

Ok, let me hit all.

To, QT, I apologize. While I thought that, it shouldn't have been typed, but I can't untype it now. Sorry.

To BBH, so I changed burnout to boring... Still the purpose of the message would be the same, but I can't go any further to protect against "cross-posting"

To Boxster, I consider only TDFever and Relief Pitcher in the category needing more than 1-coin, and even then, if Relief Pitcher was on machine defaults rather than MAME defaults, then it wouldn't need more than 1-coin.

About the tournament, I only started it because people wanted it. If nobody wants it now, I'll stop immediately, it's a headache to put everything together, just ask Gameboy, and he can probably tell you horror stories of his tournament coordination.

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 10, 2000.

Thank-you for the eloquent post, CP. As for Relief Pitcher and TD Fever, I would be just as happy to keep them the way that they are being played right now, and we can figure out a rule for them in a few months. Personally, I think that the best thing to do would be instead of inserting extra credits, to try and find a way to change settings (ie: extend time, continue game if won) based closer to how they would be played in a non-rip off arcade.

If you, boxster, or anyone else wants to send me such a setings list for various sports games, using your discretion to determine which games would fit criteria of allowing continued play, I'll add the info to the Miscellany page, which contains strange scoring methods (ninjamas, gundealer, etc.) and different-than-default settings (joust, bombjack, etc.)I'm starting to think one solution might be to set up the script to auto e-mail new players the Rules, Bans, and Miscellany pages (as well as an introductory message and MARP Info/History message) so that they have something to get them going on the right foot, as soon as they sign up.

Let me know what you think. I have script access, but not much experience.

Q.T.Quazar, MARP Rules Coordinator

-- Q.T.Quazar (qan@home.com), August 10, 2000.

QT,

I think that the auto-email thing is a great idea. If newbies have a better understanding of the site, its rules, and so forth, they would probably be more likely to participate.

Where the heck is this "miscellany" page anyway?

-- boxster (qmjcd@hotmail.com), August 10, 2000.