our 9 mon.old pup has been sore on her hind leg for a few days, i took her to the vet. the vet said she has torn her acl the ligament in your knee. the "cure"is microscopic surgery 800.00-1200.00 ,i cant afford this! does anyone know of any other ways of healing this? she is on meds. to control the swelling and pain, i trust my vet 100% but icant afford this and i realy donot want her "put down" she is sooo good,i have raised her w/ animals so she is realy upset not to be w/ them. oh yes she is a great pyrenees and in prim growing stage which is not going to help this problem. days like this reaaly get you down.

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), September 13, 2000

Answers

Does one of your state universities have a vet school?If so,find out what the cost there will be.It's usually alot less expensive.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), September 13, 2000.

You might try several weeks of crate rest. That means NO exercise, potty breaks on a leash, and you and she will go crazy. The ligament won't heal on it's own, but that may not be the problem and the complete rest will help whatever else it is. It's a real tough problem and not always easy to fix and keep fixed. Even after the surgery, she will need to be kept very quiet, and she will be prone to injuring the other one. I hate to be negative, but I've been a vet tech for years, and it is definitely a serious problem. As previously mentioned, the closest vet school would be cheaper (maybe) but you might have to travel quite a ways to get there.

Just a personal note-a few years ago I had a young bulldog that came up lame and the vet told me she would be crippled without major expensive surgery on both legs. The breeder took her back, refunded my money, crated her for several weeks, and she was fine. Only damage done was between me and the breeder. He thought I didn't care about the dog because I was considering putting her down because I couldn't afford the surgery.

-- melina bush (goatgal1@juno.com), September 13, 2000.

melina,do you the rate of working compared to failure? she is going to be big right now she is 79 lbs, i was told the bigger the dog the less chance of it working out for the good. my vet does not do the surgery a vet she knows does thats the 800$guy just calling around i got figures up to 1200$. the closest vet school is in pa i think its called new bolton ever heard of it? our work slows down to a crawl around nov. and does not pick up untill march i just cant see spending more then our mortgage payment on something that may work.

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), September 13, 2000.

Renee, Maybe you can try MSM with glucosimine and condrotin. I don't think it could hurt along with the crate rest. I give it to my horse.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), September 13, 2000.

Renee , what type of tests did the vet do to come up with this problem ?I would continue meds and keep her in a crate 24/7 .The suplaments[sp] won't hurt .Switch her to a low protein dog food .Depending on what you are feeding the protein can be very high and will make her grow to fast .This is a problem with large breeds .You want them to go slow so there bones form correctly .I'll add more as I think of it .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 13, 2000.

Renee, The vet gave you a good answer about the rate of recovery. Poodles and chihuahuas have great rates of recovery. Big dogs, less well. I'm sorry to have to say that. The other reply about low protein food is right on, by the way. Too many large breed puppies are on high protein and and calcium supplements--causes rapid growth and they are more prone to injury. What is the chance the breeder might take her back? It's worth a try and she might have someone who would take the dog for next to nothing and do the surgery. You're out a dog, but you don't have to face putting her down or going bankrupt, either

-- melina bush (goatgal1@juno.com), September 13, 2000.

Hi Renee,

I am a vet tech in Canada, and have done many surgeries on the anterior crutiate ligament. If you trust your vet 100% in the diagnosis, then to fix the problem their are not alot of options. The surgery is very straightforward and has good success. If the ligament is actually ruptured, then as others have said, it won't heal on its own. The good news is, that once the inflamation has gone from the actual tear (which takes awhile in tears) the condition is reasonably painless, but the leg will never be stable. The dog may always run with it up, walk on it but not run. It depends on what you wish... is $$$ is never going to happen, can you live with a pain free dog that will be 3 legged forever? Not really that unrealistic. In all honesty, I could be happy with that option if it were my dog. Not ideal, the surgery is good, but I would be happy to keep my dog alive and pain free. Keep in mind that dogs don't pine over the loss of use of a limb. They just go on with life... they don't compare to other dogs and think " gee, if only I could run as fast as rufus..." etc. Do my ramblings help at all? Email if you want.

-- Marci B. (daleb@kent.net), September 13, 2000.

I totally agree with Marci, once the intitial swelling is down you will see for yourself just how much use she will have of the leg. You must remember how big this dog will get, you must also take into consideration if she was purchased as a guardian or pet, because as a guardian 3 legged or not she will not hold her ground and think, "no I shouldn't fight since I have only 3 legs" and could very eaisly be killed guarding her flock. The thought of giving this problem back to the breeder, is rediculous, it has nothing to do with the breeder of this dog. Your decision since you can't afford the surgery is very simple, if she is in pain after the swelling goes down you must ethically put her down, if she is in no pain after the swelling goes down, then you can choose for yourself to keep her or not. Spay her and keep her in good shape, allowing her to carry no extra weight. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), September 13, 2000.

Hi,

hope your por baby feels better soon:) i would suggest trying some comfrey paste to rub in it. I just started using it a few months ago on some of the goats and dogs with sore, broken or injured areas. Helps to heal them You should be able to get this at a natural food store. also, try giving some goat stress, ID-1 or immuno-G, seems these products have healing properties. Is a colestrum based product. You can get Immuno-G which i use from this website anlong with a product called Gluta-Syn from http://www.springbriar.com The Gluta Syn was formulated several yrs ago to use on race horses with sore legs, fractures, etc to help with arthritis. You can alos give this to a dog as well. Good luck, hope he gets better soon... and immobalize it too.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), September 13, 2000.

Hi! I'm a vet in central NY and we do the surgery for $350-$400. (not board certified orthopedic surgeons but we have a good success rate) Maybe you could shop around a bit and see if you can find a better price from someone you trust. What about bartering services for the surgery? ACL rupture from my experience is not that common in young dogs - not impossible of course. Unless the joint is really loose the diagnosis usually has to be made with the dog under anesthesia to really assess the joint laxity. Other bone related growing diseases of dogs like hypertrophic osteodystropy and panosteitis need to be considered too. Any idea how the hips are? That could be a contributing factor. These problems respond to rest, diet changes and anti-inflammatories. Can't see your dog so don't want to second guess your vet. ACL ruptures will with time scar down and give you some stability but premature arthritis is likely which can be a problem in such a large breed. You're in a tough spot so good luck!

-- teresa (teresam@ascent.net), September 13, 2000.

In regards to Vickie's reply, it is not ridiculous to contact the breeder. Many REPUTABLE breeders are anxious to not only know the situation about their dogs, but are willing to give a lifetime guarantee on their health. Of course, the breeder is not responsible for the injury, unless he or she is breeding physically unsound dogs, but most breeders care about the outcome of the puppies they produce. It's a ticklish subject sometimes, but more and more, breeders are being called upon by their breed clubs to take responsibility for the puppies they allow their dogs to produce. Not all people who breed dogs consider them livestock, to be sold at a profit and forgotten. Whether or not the breeder of this particular puppy would do anything, many would. They also might be able to help find another vet, one who would do the surgery more cheaply or be willing to try alternative therapy. Unfortunately, the outcome may be that a pup with great promise is lost. Shouldn't Renee exhaust every avenue before she has to make the final decision?

-- melina bush (goatgal1@juno.com), September 13, 2000.

As a breeder I give very good gurantees on my puppies and also sell them on limited registration .All parents are ofa clear , eye and heart clear .This is something I would have no obligation to replace a puppy , but I might .When I do replace puppies I do not ask for puppy 1 back .

I would contact the breeder if it wasn't Renee herself .After dealing with a certain breed long enough you sometimes know more then some vets .{nothing personel to anyone ] The breeder may have a perfect home for her if you decide not to keep her , say with an older couple with no children at home .

At this point give it time and do not rush into anything .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 13, 2000.

About 13 years ago I got a large breed puppy for my children (St. Bernard, Newfie, Lab cross. She was on medication for what I was told was a puncture in the area of her hind "knee", which was swollen. When I took her to the vet to have her checked she told me that the knee ligament was torn-probably because of rough play with litter mates. I was in the same place as you are now, expensive surgery, limited budget AND little ones who loved their new friend already. I told the vet I couldn't do the surgery-she understood (a single mom). We put the dog on limited exercise, gave her anti- inflammitory drugs and waited. she limped all her life, got a little stiff and walked slow in wet,cold weather as she aged- and died this May at the ripe old age of 12 1/2. Grew to 120# by the way. She became a house dog in her last 4 or 5 years because it was too damp outdoors. It can be done-just have to decide if she is a working dog or a just a loving dog. Good Luck-betty

-- betty modin (betty_m9@yahoo.com), September 14, 2000.

thanks everyone! i cant return her to the breeder ,i am the breeder! i called everyone who bought one from her litter and no problems anywhere , for that i am thankful. i have mom and dad and no problems w/ them. i did have an x-ray of her hips and all clear there. i picked her from the litter because of the way she is{not ready to say was} with stock and the children.i think i saw it happen ,she was running full out in the rain across the field chasing a neighbors dog out of the field and came to a sliding stop and fell. i called her back and by the time she was home it had heat in it and she was limping,i put a bag of frozen peas on it for 24 hrs. then heat and nothing happened. i am not willing to give up on her yet, i need to find a crate big enough for her for in the house. i think i have no chance of keeping her quite outside, i'll let you know what happens..thanks again. anyone know a good cheap vet in md. or pa,?

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), September 14, 2000.

You want to enclose her in a space that is just large enough for her to stand up and turn around .You can do a make shift one out of pallets in the barn or on a porch .Keep her on anti-inflamatorys [sp].What are you feeding ? You can also add some healing vitamens and I love absorbine for horses , I use it on me ! Keep us posted .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 14, 2000.

if there is anyone out there who would be willing to take this dog i will pay for spaying and give some money towards her care. we are in a county which only allows you to have 3 dogs, with my neighbor next door i could never hide a 4 but i need 2 guard dogs for the animals. i hate to put this problem on anyone else but my husband feels it unfair to keep her and is quite set in his thoughts. we are in northen maryland.

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), September 14, 2000.