Does anyone have any experience with theses dogs good or bad ?After chasing a hog for 2 hours we decided we need something with cuts that will herd or drive .My shepard is great wiith the sheep and goats but wouldn't even atempt the hog .Help .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 16, 2000

Answers

I need to learn how to type nothing had cuts and with is with one i.Forgive me it's been a long day .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 16, 2000.

Patty, my old squirrel dog will put any hog I've ever had in the barn but he is pretty hard on them. Nothing serious though.Also about the squirrels, 4 or 5 old ones would feed six. Pressure cook them for about 25 minutes or until tender in just a little water. Drain them and save the broth. Eat the meat just as is or roll it in flour and brown. Mix up some flour and cream or evaporated milk and pour in the boiling broth till it gets as thick as you want./ Let it cook slowly for ten or fifteen minutes then pour it over some fresh bread or mashed potatoes and it's mighty hard to beat. Young squirrels are best just rolled and fried slow like chicken. I've hunted and eaten all kinds of stuff and squirrel is the best of all.

-- Don Cothern (hihilldon@yahoo.com), September 16, 2000.

Australian Cattle Dogs, aka Blue heeler, Queensland heeler, are good little stock dogs and are serious about watchdogging the homestead. My daughter has two of them and they are willing to take on the European boars that come near their place on the California coast. They can be a little aloof with strangers (not a bad trait)and all work. I raise Australian Shepherds myself and like their more happy- go-luck nature, but the cattle dogs are good too, if they are from working lines and not just show dogs.

-- melina bush (goatgal1@juno.com), September 16, 2000.

Hi Patty, We have one (aka blue or red heeler) and she is the best dog but horribly ugly. We rescued her and she had been terribly abused so we cant ask her to do much (she gets scared). She will take on anything that moves, even hogs. She protects the kids, is fierce to strangers, and doesnt wander. I dont think I would get another one that had been beaten for chasing things because it still affects her ability to listen to commands.

-- Julie (julieamc@excite.com), September 16, 2000.

We have had cattle dogs for twelve years. If they are properly trained, they are unsurpassed at moving any type of animal from angry dairy bulls to ducks. However, due to their extreme intelligence and aggressiveness, they need a lot of training time from their owner in order to perform as expected. If left to their own devices for long periods of time, they will become bored and find something to get into. I would recommend them IF you have the time and inclination to work with them alot.

-- Leo (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), September 16, 2000.

I'm going to look at pups on Sunday .Is there anything I should look for ? I have done alot of training with dogs so that doesn't worry me .The pup should be fully obedience trained by spring so we can start him on stock .Thanks and I'll let you all know what happens.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 16, 2000.

I learned over 30 years ago that it is fruitless to chase a hog, generally they will come back to where their food is, in the mean time they will root up the yard and everything else. Once they get the taste of the free life they are hard to keep confined. I had 4-8 week old pigs get through an electric fence and they were gone for 6 weeks in my woods, I could see where they rooted but never caught up to them. One evening I went out to the hog pen behind the barn, there they were hanging out, before I could get the gate closed they were gone, eventually I caught them in the barn, they had gained good weight while they were gone but I was not out of pocket for any feed, they made fine meat when finished, they taught me something.

-- Hendo (OR) (redgate@echoweb.net), September 17, 2000.

The blue heelers (or the red variant) which we have in Australia are wonderful cattle dogs. They do persuade the cattle to move by snapping at their heels, hence the name. With difficult beasts, they snap, then drop flat to avoid the kick. It is useless to expect them not to bite or snap at strangers reliably if the strangers are doing what the dog thinks they shouldn't, although they will listen to and honour introductions if they agree that the person introduced is honourable. They are generally too rough on small stock such as sheep and goats - they still snap at them. This approach does work on pigs if you need to use it, though.

Kelpies are also marvelous utility dogs. These may be what you call Australian Shepherds - I wouldn't know - there's no dog by that name in Australia. If it's the same dog, then they are a very useful cattle dog as well as a sheep dog.

Of course, the problem may be that you have different strains to those I know. I'm reluctant to talk more than broad generalities about what are supposedly the same breed when we're looking at separation of gene pools not only by international distances, but also quarantine regulations.

A word of warning - both kelpies and blue heelers have dingo blood in them. That's the Australian wild dog, a somewhat tame version of which is kept by our Aborigines. They will attack people (particularly children) if they think that they're justified and that they can get away with it (anyone seen the film "Evil Angels"?). Many kelpies need to be kept just as working dogs, or at least be careful with children around them, and DON'T trust them with strange children. I know that the "Australian Shepherd" can exhibit these problems.

Both breeds are loyal and intelligent, and as noted above they can be troublesome if they get bored. It's not out of place to hold a conversation with the best of them - explain what you want done, and why. They'll understand a lot more than you'd expect, although they're getting some of it from your tone and body language as well as the words. I wouldn't keep one as a pet - they need a job to do - something they can feel they're good at; and herding stock is where their instincts point them. This is NOT anthromorphism - simple fact.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), September 19, 2000.

Patty, my Dad had a blue heeler, his name was Ringo. That dog understood everything my Dad told him! The dog was a member of our family. Ringo helped my Dad with working cattle in the flint hills. When he got cattle in to be branded, & worked--Ringo was the one to work the cattle up into the shoot as Dad worked them. The Dog at different times had his front legs in casts as he was kicked & got his front leg broke. We lived about 2 hours from my folks, my Dad raised everything--you name it & he had it at one time or another. He raised Belgium Horses & he also had a stuborn shetland he kept for the grand kids or to keep the goat company, I don't know which. But my Dad use to have me do tricks on my horse or something smart to entertain people when they came to visit. So when I left home he had Ringo show off instead. When someone came to visit --Dad would say Ringo go out to which ever pasture the horses were in & bring the shetland in here to me. And Ringo would do it, or any other instruction Dad gave him. One morning my Mother called & said that dog of your Dad's is really happy this morning!!!! I asked why--she said, that shetland died of old age last night & Ringo won't have to go get the darn thing & show off anymore!!!ha--Ringo worked sheep, ducks, cattle the horses--he went everywhere with my Dad, he could. When my Dad was dyeing of cancer--the Dog just layed down & wouldn't eat or move!! When my Dad died, the day my Mother had the farm sale Ringo died, also. Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), September 19, 2000.

Don, I don't think the kelpies you have are quite the same thing as our "Australian Shepherds". There is a web site that explains the differences between Border Collies, Australian Shepherds, and English Shepherds (which aren't English, they are an American breed!). Then, here in the States, people are also working on recovering the "landrace" farm collies, calling them by different names such as "Old Shep", Old-Time Farm Collies, and so on. (The web sites are interesting, with pictures and stories of the old-time dogs, which largely disappeared by the 1950's.) If you do a search on herding dogs, or go to the English Shepherd site, you should be able to find the comparison chart. But basically the first three breeds mentioned are branches from the same original stock. Oh, and then there are the people who are trying to recover the old-time collie, "Victorian Collie", they call it, or what the collie was like before Borzoi was bred into it in the late eighteen hundreds.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 19, 2000.

Don, my Australian Shepard was great with kids - any and all. They all belonged to her. Since we had few critters at the time, I guess she thought they were her stock! She wouldn't let them out of the yard into the road, turning them back by shoving them with her body. Woe to any adult that yelled at a kid in our house or yard though - and none were brave enough to spank when Pepper was around! Many times we had to deliver my niece and nephew home because she wouldn't let my brother in law upstairs to collect them. As long as you didn't mess with the kids, you were her best buddy.

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), September 19, 2000.

Hogs are hard to herd, they don't move away from the dog the way one could expect sheep to. My Border Collie is trained on sheep and ducks and was VERY helpful on the few occasions I needed her to repen the hogs. She has more bite than most BC's and she needed that with the hogs. She didn't draw any blood, but she got their respect. I have a friend who says her Heelers can always get the hogs in the pen, but are useless to put them in the trailer. Just lack of training I suspect.

Whatever you get, I would get some help teaching it to herd with a respectable trainer when he is about a year old. I think a dog that only bit heels would just chase. To move hogs they have to bite the nose. Good Luck. Jill

-- Jill Schreiber (schreiber@alaska.com), September 19, 2000.

Does anyone know a breeder around New York State or even Canada ? Thanks for all the good advise.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 19, 2000.

i just recently aquired a blue heeler bitch puppy which someone abandoned on my road. i already have a border collie/ gordon setter mix spayed bitch and had been hankering for another dog. i did a lot of reading and asking around about this breed before i decided to keep her. from early on i am reinforcing to my dogs that i am dominant Head Bitch around this spread. i roll the pup onto her back and stare into her eyes. if she misbehaves, i do this while grabbing her throat and growling. i train my dogs to hand motions and short vocalizations. i don't have stock. i am a handywomyn/mechanic/tinkerer more than a farmer. i like dogs for companionship and protection/warning as i live way out in the woods. Bella (the heeler) is showing signs of great intelligence and personality. she has a slight problem with equilibrium. the vet said she likely had a high fever(distemper) as a young puppy. she is showing signs of protectiveness. i bond with my dogs by sleeping with them and spending a lot of time watching and interacting with them. i do not trust this puppy with my children or cats yet though. she's still too unpredictable and young, and hasn't learned all the rules.

-- Juno RedLeaf (gofish@presys.com), September 22, 2000.

Try a catahoula leopard dog. They were bred to herd wild hogs and cattle. They are a bit too rough for sheep and goats but excellent for cattle and hogs. There are alot of photos of them working hogs at www.baydog.com/ and also blackmouth curs are good at this as well..they're the orginial "Old Yeller" dogs that you've read about in school. They're the real thing but I just happen to prefer catahoulas because they were my first breed of dog. There is a good website for catahoulas at www.catahoulaleopard.com/

Keep in mind they herd by barking and they don't nip the heels like the heeling breeds..I can't stand those dogs because they nip and their teeth has been touching cattle feet. I had one for a while..didn't work out for me. Catahoulas are perfect for me. They do bite the hog to make sure the hog is paying attention or to distract the hog while you're making your way to the hog. For more info check out both websites.

Ted

-- Ted Hart (tedhart71@hotmail.com), January 08, 2001.

These dogs are amazing. You can teach them anything. They are highly intelligent.But you got to make sure that you get it from a good breeder, other wise your going to have(Health) problems with your dog.If you don't know how to train a dog, I would definetly say pay the money for a good trainer, other wise your going to waste your dogs ability.People say that you have to watch these dogs around children.Bull!!! If you treat your dog well and socialize them, you will not have a problem.My 6 year old nefew always plays with my dog, and she loves it.Very gentle even when she tries to heard him...Get a book on Austrialan cattle dog before you buy.Hope this helps...

-- Alona ramsay (lola@digitalcollision.com), December 14, 2001.

My cattle dog is 9 months old now and would not trade her for the world .She is EXCELLANT with the stock and children ranging in age from 15 - 2 .I don't know how I lived without her .She knows where the stock belongs and if it gets out SHE puts it back in .We need to work on directions so she is more helpfull moving them from one pen to another.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.