My husband just brought home a few goldfish he rescued from what he says was a goldfish slum (a murky, ill-kept kiddie pool, appearently) and now we have to feed them. Soooo, I thought I'd ask youse guys for some fishy advice, which I'm sure I'll get in spades. First off, I've read that you can feed fish in ponds with dog and/or cat food. As I have cats already (boy do I ever have cats!) this would be ideal in that I wouldn't have to shell out for overpriced fish food in teeny weeny bottles. Can I feed aquarium fish this stuff, provided I get some "cleaner" fish to scrub the leftover stuff, like sucker fish and small catfish? How much is too much?

Secondly, can they live off of edible fish-food type plants alone, and if so what would these plants be? They came with some sort of floating foliage, a water lettuce or some such, which I'll look up in my water garden books.

Thirdly, if they need supplemental food other than plant nibbles, how much food relative to plants and what kind?

For info's sake, I have four (at present, don't hold your breath appearently normal, garden variety golfish in a normal sized aquarium (don't know the gallons, but neither huge, nor small, about 1'-ish deep X 3'-ish long X 2 - 2 1/2'-ish high, 3/4 full. (Cool, I got up to measure it and my guesses were so dead on that it's spooky!). I've put in a bubbler, more for my aural benefit than from the fishes need, and a ineffectively-designed strawberry pot on it's side to provide shelter and exploration space. Will be getting gravel and other gew-gaws sooner or later.

Okay guys, your turn. What are your droppings of wisdom? (wait, that didn't come out right! Oh well, you know what I mean - carry on!)

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), October 01, 2000

Answers

Mother always fed the goldfish oatmeal. They lived in a small fish bowl. They always lived until she forgot to change the water, which had to be changed every day. I have had goldfish in a real aquarium with gravel and everything, and my experience was that they still had to be changed about once a week. Not fun if you have lots of gravel in the bottom that has to be scooped out and washed under running water until it is clean, then dumped back into the aquarium. My grandfather lived with his sister in their old age, and she had a fish pond in the back yard. Grandpa dug it and lined it with concrete, then added about a foot of dirt. Then he got some native lily pads and put in the fish pond. Their goldfish lived there year round despite weather that froze the top of the pond for several inches. Eventually they would get too large for the pond and he would take them and turn them loose in Lake Texoma.

Maybe you would like to consider a putting them outside in a fish pond?

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), October 01, 2000.

oh my goodness...okay, I've kept fish for years, my grandfather pool- raised fish. I don't think that you are going to be able to set up a self-supporting biosphere in the given space and given species. Goldfish are carp and they are extremely prolific producers of excerement,and you are going to have to be vigilent keeping the tank clean -- no algae-eater or catfish will eat it. Catfish WILL clean up left over food, and algae-eaters need more food than they can scrape off the tank too.

I think you will get into trouble trying to feed catfood or dogfood to them -- I think you will get a putrid mess. You can buy good quality fish food in larger quantities to be more cost efficient and freeze it for freshness. Considering how long a jar of food lasts, it's not that expensive, and your fish will be healthier for it. I used to raise brine shrimp to feed mine, as well as fruitflies. We used to feed my grandfather's small amounts of whole grained bread as a treat. I found that watersprite plants were prolific in my set-up and the goldfish relished them. If thhey are big enough, you can try them on trout chow as well. I've heard of some people feeding theirs minced spinach, but mine were never interested and that was a mess. Most of them will also take minced earthworms.

You might want to think about not putting down any gravel and getting a filter that hangs on the outside of the tank and siphons the water into itself, filters, then returns it to the tank. The amount of excrement on these fish is what probably caused the scummy pool they were living in. If you have gravel, next thing you know you'll have to be getting the feces out of it -- it builds up kind of disgusting. Also siphon off 1/3 to 1/2 every week and add fresh water, because it builds up nitrates and ammonia from the fish urine that will eventually suffocate them. The good news is that it's wonderful for the garden.

Final thumbnails advice. Feed the fish a few flakes. If they gobble them up, give a few more. If they gobble those, maybe a pinch more. You can do this until you get a feel for how much to feed at a time and not have leftovers to pollute the water. It is better to give several small meals a day than one big one.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), October 01, 2000.

Goldfish never did well for me indoors. They seem to have a very short lifespan in an aquarium. I think indoors gets too warm for them. They do live for years outside in ponds, barrels, water troughs and yes, even murky ill-kept kiddie pools.

I currently have two 5 inch goldfish in a kiddie pool that also functions as a critter watering hole. Believe me, the horse leaves alot of backwash! I bought them three years ago as 10 cent feeder fish. They keep the water free of mosquito larvae. I will be adding a catfish when I find a healthy one.

Goldfish can be fed oatmeal and bread. Most goldfish food is bread wafers. They do go goofy for bloodworms, though. The more you feed them the more they grow.

I also have tropical fish in a 55 gallon aquarium. I cannot imagine putting catfood in an aquarium, not even for catfish! That stuff is nasty, even for cats. Maybe a few dog kibbles, but we all have an extra crust of bread.

Goldfish in an aquarium need a bubbler, and perhaps a water chiller if you keep your house on the warm side. You may want to get a filter, too, so you don't have to change the water so often. Goldfish are kind of dirty fish, They are, after all, carp.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), October 01, 2000.

Soni,

Okay, remember, I work in a pet store so here is my professional advice. Goldfish need 3 gallons of water per inch of fish, per fish. This means if your goldfish is three inches long, it needs nine gallons. Which means your tank is probably too small.

You can keep them in that tank if you syphon the water from the bottom on a regular basis (depending on how many fish, every other day or once a week. A 10-20% change only, not the full tank ever), cleaning the gravel as you do. Syphons for this purpose are sold in pet stores (hoses will work but will suck up the gravel). Do not scoop the water from the top, ammonia and wastes settle on the bottom. Replacing evaporated water does not equal water changes.

Air bubbles alone are not enough. The outside filter, already mentioned works great. Get a bigger size if possible.

DO NOT OVERFEED! Goldfish always look hungry. They will eat plants quickly so other then a treat, goldfish food would work best. Do not feed other then goldfish food for an indoor tank. It's not that expensive in relation to size.

Catfish need heat, goldfish do not. You really don't need a catfish if you do not overfeed. Algea eaters will suck on goldfish, leaving sores that sometimes kills. Again, algea eaters need heat. (I have had some who didn't suck on the goldfish but most do)

The water lettuce will not live in your indoor tank. It is tropical so if you live in a cold state, it is only seasonal outside too.

After reading all this, why not put in a small pond. There are some kits that have the pond liner, filter, food and book included.

Warning: Fish ponds are contagious and exciting! I'm on my second with ideas of increasing my first. All my fish stay outside in the winter.

Any more questions, I won't mind a direct e-mail

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), October 02, 2000.

Soni, Ok; I am figuring that is about a 30 gallon tank? That is what I have. How big are your fish? Mine are anywhere from 2 to 5 inches long ; not including tails ( which makes them longer ) I have 14 gold fish ( actually one gold, two black moores, and the rest are calico, all of them have fan tails ) Very pretty with scales that sort of look like pearls. My mother and father ( inlaw ) got these at a bait place in southern Arkansas. I know you are not supposed to keep that many in an aquarium but that is all I have for now as my outside pond is not dug yet.I have had them for a year now. I have one of the filtering systems that comes with the tank. I think Wally world sells them for less than 40 dollars. ( Maybe 29? ) Not sure of the price. It cleans a lot of the gunk .Get the biggest one you can afford. I just rinse the actual filters really well in the sink about once a month maybe every 2 weeks would be better.

I do have to moniter the ph because I have too many in there.( you can also buy the stuff at Wally world, just get the tester stuff ) If the water turns yellow in the tube, add 1 teaspoon of bakeing soda. Check again if it is still not greenish add another 1/2 teaspoon.The tester kit will tell you how to do it.Be careful; you don't want the water blue. I am told that will kill them quicker than if it is yellow. But I don't use the remedy they give. I use the soda instead. Also if you can get some aquarium salt to put in there they will do better, the box tells how much and when. It helps their slime coat or something.

I do have one of those hoses to siphone the gravel with. It is alot easier than changing the whole thing. I am sure I don't need to tell you how heavy that tank is.In the last six months I have used it twice and I need to again.

I also use the clorine remover stuff when I change water. Or add new water. Someone told me I don't need to, that it is not necessary, but I don't have the nerve to try. I don't want to kill my fish. ( I got this remover at, you guessed it Wally world. I payed 2 dollars for it and it last a real long time. Treats several hundred gallons. )

Also get my fish food there, floating food sticks for goldfish.I think I payed 4 dollars for it but I have only bought 2 so far. And I just this week opened the second.

I also have 2 placostamas ( Not spelled correct, I am sure) I get them alge disks. Again it cost about 4 dollars but it last a long time and they eat the fish food some too.What they don't eat the gold fish eat. And I was wandering what they were doing on the goldfish,( Thanks Dee ) looked like they were sucking on them.They only seem to do it when I feed them. The gold fish seem to get away pretty good.

So far I have been very fortunate with them. I have never been able to get healthy fish at Wally world or the pet stores around here. Mom and Pop inlaw paid 7 dollars for 5 pounds of fish. Do you have any idea what five pound of goldfish looks like? MAN O MAN! Needless to say everybody within driving distance got fish if they wanted them.I have a few friends with outside ponds.And they are very happy with them.

Well, I hope that helps some. I hope you guys like your fish as much as we do. I used to have tropicals but I had to sit right at the aquarium to see them. I can see these fish even when I am laying on the couch.It's very nice.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), October 02, 2000.

My 2 cents, without reading all of the above...we have had the same goldfish in gallon bowls that live for years because I do not clean their bowls all the time. Twice a year is all. I have some glass pebbles on the bottom, use our well water and feed them Wardley Total Goldfish. I feed a goldfish a good pinch of food in the morning and maybe some during the day if it seems hungry. That's it. I found that if I cleaned their bowls all the time they didn't live very long. Good luck!

-- Jean (schiszik@tbcnet.com), October 02, 2000.

We have five goldfish. My husband bought them two or three years ago as five-for-a-dollar feeders to put in the pnd at his parents place (to eat mosquito larvae). Come fall, he set up a small aquarium for them, thinking he'd just keep them indoors for the winter because the pond freezes to the bottom. Well, they were already too big for the aquarium, but they survived almost a year in it because he cleaned it regularly and kept an eye on the ph. Also have an air bubbler and a filter. He had a large tank (he says it holds fifty gallons) that he'd picked up at a yard sale, and he finally got that set up and moved the fish into it. They are pretty good-sized now, I think even the smallest one must be almost four inches long, and doing fine. He did get an algae eater and it is keeping the tank clean. Now, I have a question for Dee, and decided to ask it here, as someone else may benefit from the answer. When Greg brought the fish indoors to start with, they were all five gold. Within days, one had turned silver, and one was partly silver. Now, after the second move, three of them are silver!! Why do they change color, and is there any way to get them to change back to gold?

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 02, 2000.

Sorry, feeder goldfish are just that. Many are silver. You could try feeding a color inhansing (sp) formula fish food but I don't think it will change back. Also, instead of bringing the fish in, you could put a small heater in the pond or like I do, make the filter roll or bubble on the surface to keep the ice from getting solid. Someone I know leaves them in and is amazed they are alive every year after being fishsickles.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), October 02, 2000.

I forgot to mention that goldfish that have black on them usually lose their black after you have them for a while. We don't do the breeding that they do in the Orient to get the perfect fish. Shubunkins and Koi will hold their color and can be trained to eat out of your hand.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), October 02, 2000.

I have really enjoyed this Gold fish talk. They have always been my favorite fish even thuogh they are so messy. I plan to get a very large aquarium some day. I know I want Gold fish in it does any one know what kind of fish you can put in the aquarium with the gold fish How about it Dee????????????

-- Lisa Hopple (hopplehomestead@safezone.net), October 03, 2000.

Thank you all for the help, gotten or coming. I'm with Lisa - what other fish do well with goldfish? If suckerfish are a no no, what about snails? Is there any fish or animal that will help keep the tank cleaner? I got some sort of water conditioner that is supposed to be a weekly thing to keep the ickies at bay, but not really sure what it does or if it will work.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), October 03, 2000.

Sorry, the only fish that should go with goldfish is goldfish. BUT, there are so many different kinds of goldfish. Runynkins, orandas, moors, pearls, red caps, bronzes, lemons, telescopes, etc. Some people swear that they keep their goldfish with their tropicals but, they are also either cleaning often or replacing the dying tropicals. Oh, I forgot, the male betta (siamese fighting fish) can go with the goldfish. You cannot put two of these together though, they will fight to the death.

Snails can go in the tank but again, some need heat so ask at the store if they do. If the snail is preggers, you'll have a bunch of them. To get rid of extras, put a piece of lettuce on the bottom of the tank at night, next morning, they will all be on it so remove them then.

As long as you do a regular water change and do not overfeed, you don't need to put any chemicals in the water. If you have chlorine in your water, you need the chemical. Salt (not table, aquarim or kosher only) as mentioned before, is good to keep a slime coat on the fish. This protects them.

Maybe I should mention that before I moved, my water was a purified polluted river water. I had beautiful fish that lived forever. When I moved here and my water is the closest to pure possible, I couldn't keep them alive. My ph was way too high and the constant up and down of chemicals was too hard on them. I've finally gotten the hang of it. I preferr calico orandas.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), October 03, 2000.

OK, what is this about goldfish in the horse water??? I have a kiddie pool that I water my goats with. I change it once a week to keep it clean,can I put goldfish in with them, or will that mess up the water for the goats. We are getting some shetland ponies for the children in the next several months..is this something to do for the horses? I have never heard of that, it is kind of neat!

-- Cindy in OK (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), October 08, 2000.