For all you rotisserie league Leica executives, I was wondering what are your thoughts and opinions about how Leica should be taking advantage of its ownership of Minox to benefit photographers and the company?

Would it make sense for low-cost or entry level products, compatible with the M-system, to appear under the Minox label? This might be similar to the relationship between Contax and Yashica. Would this provide a way for Leica to play in the entry-level market without compromising on the Leica standards?

Should Leica attempt to do for 6.5 x 9 format what it did for 35mm? Should there be Leica cameras and lenses that uses the Minox cassette? The Sharan "Leica IIIf" in 6.5 x 9 appears to have been rebadged as a Minox camera, but this isn't the same thing. How could Leica go about making 6.5 x 9 acceptable for serious photography, and would it be worth the effort? (I'm sure lots of folks will scoff at this, but most photographers scoffed at 35mm when Leica started that also.)

Or should Leica continue to keep Minox separate from Leica, adding to revenues but not integrated with Leica camera?

-- Joe Buechler (jbuechler@toad.net), October 12, 2000

Answers

I am just hoping that if I live the expected 30 or 40 more years, that I will be able to still buy 35mm film for my present cameras that should still be operable, (hopefully). I don't know if a smaller format would appeal to serious photographers. When ever I pull out my Rollie TLR and run a Pro-Pack, (60 exposures), through it... I sometimes think how small the 35mm negatives really are. I couldn't imagine going any smaller, but that is just me... or is it? APS is not maintaining the level that was anticipated by the film industry, and how many are old enough to remember the other "threat to 35mm" from the early '80's... disc film?

I would rather use silver based film than go digital, but like the hairs on my head, there are less like thinking individuals every year. As more and more people abandon real film, it will be harder and harder for companies to justify production at any level that we see now. I could not imagine them considering tooling up for a yet another unproven market, that, due to the growing popularity of digital, has a built in annual reduction of desirability.

I see the two markets as distinct and separate, and a moniker won't create a new demand. If you are one of the few using 6.5 x 9, something makes you think it is the film you need, but just reading about Leica bringing one out won't make me jump into a new format. as I said, I'm just hoping that I can still get 35mm in the future.

I might have to get rid of the washing machine to make room for a new freezer... let's see 30 years, at 60 rolls a year....

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), October 12, 2000.

Your idea is appealing in a lot of ways. Leica might do well to think of introducing a cheaper 35mm M-camera body, sort of a CLE of the '00's under the Minox brand and perhaps manufactured in Japan where they are already manufacturing Minox binoculars; this would be a nice alternative to Konica's M-compatible offerings. The price point Leica ought to aim for is that of the cost of a Contax G2 combined with a 45mm lens as the cost of a new body with a 50mm Summicron. As far as going the submini route, this is probably the wrong way to go (ditto APS, IMHO); Minox submini sales really reflect that submini format is mostly an obscure curiosity and I doubt that any attempt by Leica to offer additional camera products in this format would add much interest or produce significant sales. Now if Leica were to offer a medium format camera . . . .

-- Christopher Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), October 12, 2000.

Minox though a Leica subsidairy, runs separately from Leica. Minox has its own 35mm line, the Minox GT-E/GT-S, which has a superb 35mm/F3.5 Minoxar lens, which is every bit as good as Leica lenses.

Minox also has its own compact binocular line. In the 8x11mm area ( not 6.5x 9 -- which was the film used in Walter Zapp's prototype Ur-Minox but by the time of 1938 Riga Minox, the format was 8mm x 11mm and has being that way for over 50 years ) The Leica IIIf 8x11 camera is the first attempt to combine Leica style with Minox format, and that cute camera is selling briskly in dealerships. During my recent trip to Vienna, Budapest, Slovak Republic and Prague, I carried Leica R5 with 28-80 Vario-Elmar, a Contax T2, and four Minox cameras: 35ML for 35mm, and a Minox C, a Minox B and Minox EC. The 35ML pictures are as sharp and contrasty as Vario-Elmar and Zeiss Sonnar of T2. As for 8x11 format, it has a life of its own. It is used by more head of states then Leica camera: President Eisenhower, King of Demark, King Carlos of Spain, Prince Philips, the Duke of Edinburgh ( who illustrated his book "Birds From Brittannia" with pictures taken with Minox A ) As for optics, the COMPLAN lens's sharpness for surpass any 35mm lens, Leica included. With Technical Pan, I routinely enlarge to 8x10" See examples at http://web.ionsys.com/~martntai/811.html. With the new 720lpmm Gigabitfilm from www.gigabitfilm.de, a Minox picture can enlarged to 33"x 45", hehe, I don't need MF :)

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), October 13, 2000.

I would add an affirmation to Martin's post. I also have the Minox ML. It's 35mm f2.8 lens is as sharp as my Summarons. It has no rangefinder, but very good DOF markings, and aperture priority, so it works fine for most outdoor shooting. You can alter exposure by tricking the ISO setting, but for quick compensation, there is a 2X backlight switch. Being manual focus, it is quite easy to do a surrogate light reading, then re-compose for the shot. I shoot slow slide film with good results. Add to this a full sized hot shoe and the fact that the whole thing is the size of a pack of cigarettes, and it is the thinking photographer's point and shoot.

If you are looking for something when you don't want to carry your serious, (read: heavy / large), gear... you can do a lot worse than this camera. You have to use your brain, so it is not a mindless P&S, but as Martin says, the results can rival much larger gear.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), October 13, 2000.

So Martin, would you propose that Minox think about selling Complan lenses, maybe at super wide focal lengths, in M or LTM mount? This might be competetive with Cosina/Voigtlander 15mm and 12mm without cutting into Leica M lens sales.

How about the other way around? If you're Cosina, would you think about asking Leica if they'd like to sell Bessa-R's with a Minox nameplate? In M mount? If you're Leica, would you take them up on this?

Back to 8x11 (sorry Martin), If you're AGFA, would you be looking at the increasing sales of 8x11 as an opportunity that you'd want to throw money at? Would you think about improving the emulsions? Would you think about expanding the AGFA scanner line to include 8x11 film scanning capability? (I'd buy one, BTW.) Would this increase 8x11 sales?

This discussion is just for grins, but its interesting to speculate.

-- Joe Buechler (jbuechler@toad.net), October 13, 2000.

I don't really know about the value of the Minox subminiatures, although I had one once, but it needs special treatment, doesn't it? Special developing tanks etc?

I had a Minox GT and I do miss it a bit - now that is a really portable camera! I sold it because it I found the film transport was not that good and it tended to scratch the film and also because I was givem a Contax T (which was consequently stolen). Of course, maybe I just got a bad one. It was capable of good results, though. I am not altogether convinced that the lens was really as good as Leica 35mm lens to be honest, but certainly not shabby by any means.

-- Robin Smith (rsmith@springer-ny.com), October 13, 2000.

Robin, Leica IIIf subminature camera film indeed can be developed with special tank, ie, Minox Daylight development tank. Although one can also develop the film in ordinary tank with special 9.5mm wide Nikor reel, but the advantage of Minox tank is that the film can be loaded in daylight, no darkroom is needed.

As for the value of Leica/Minox submiiature:

1. Extreme lightness, a Minox TLX is only 4 oz,
2. Luxury: top speed 1/2000, parallax corrected viewfinder, built in ND filter, UV filter, lens hood, close focus to 8"
3. Super sharp lens

Example of supersharp lens:

Original picture

enlarged to 3.5x5"

2 cm from bottom right is a street sign post, on which there is a sign post. The sign post is only 0.1mm wide. Enlarge 200 x :

You can see "ONE", each character, for example 'E' is only 0.02mm on original negative. That is how sharp a Minox subminature lens is.

Edited/fixed...T

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), October 16, 2000.

[Moderator's note: I finally found a good way to avoid forgetting to close tags: Always enter the opening and closing HTML tags first, together, e.g. italics or center. Then put the cursor between them to insert the object to be affected.]

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), October 16, 2000.

There is a new Minox Historical Society with familiar Minox mouse style logo.

The president Peter Zimmerman is a well known Minox photographer(M6 as well ) Secretary D. Scott Young is the author of a recent book "Minox:Marvel in Miniature"

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), July 07, 2001.

Leica owns 49% of Minox, which runs as a seperate company, but shares marketing and distribution.

The sales of Leica IIIf, and M3 miniature copies are quite good.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), July 07, 2001.

Leica R8 and Minox TLX design firm

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), July 07, 2001.

MINOX CLX

Lens 15mm/f3.5 multicoated lens. Shutter 10sec to 1/2000 sec

Chrome plated brass housing

Parallex corrected viewfinder

Close focus to 8"(20 cm)

Built in ND filter

Auto and manual mode

Fast loading and unloading

5 oz of utmost Wetzlar precision

Inventer Walter Zapp signature at camera back

Genuine "MADE IN GERMANY" not "Minox GmbH Germany"

Super sharp lens, picture enlargeable to garage door size Minox CLX is the prettiest Minox camera I own

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), July 07, 2001.

Gerald McMullon Minox Collection

Most complete online catalog of Minox cameras and acessories, with discription and photographs of original package of Minox cameras from Riga Minox to Gold and Platinum Minox and all sorts of Minox accesories. Compiled by Gerald McMullon, from his personal collection.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), January 31, 2002.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), May 24, 2002.