Please provide input on the organization of this forum. Under consideration are the following categories. Will they be useful?

• Photokina (new products anounced there, etc.)
• Leica Clones (Russian, etc.)
• Leica Photographers (DAH,HCB,SS, etc.)

Also, it may be getting time to list a link to categories whose questions are no longer "new." Each link will show the number of messages in that category. The benefit is faster loading of the initial page. The down side is the necessity of clicking on the link which people might not be inclined to do. Input please.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@alaska.net), October 26, 2000

Answers

Tony,

It may be a necessary evil, but it does tidy up the page. The "camera equipment" forum in the same Greenspun site does this, and it is "neater looking".

As long as the older questions that are answered come up when you click on "New Answers"... it is not that big a problem. I usually do this when ever I read the site, since it saves time.

The new categories are a welcome addition.

Not to kiss butt... but you would have to make A LOT of mistakes before you mess up this site, it is still one of the best.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), October 26, 2000.

I agree on all counts. As one of the "old mail" links, could a link be provided that essentially reverts the presentation to this current format? Thus you get faster load of the initial screen, and optionally the reader could choose to browse the categories as s/he currently does with only one additional click. Over time you could then see by number of hits what the preferred format is.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), October 26, 2000.

Unfortunately visitors cannot choose the format because it is an administration function only -- and set one way or the other. I'm in no real hurry to switch it, though. My only concern is page load speed. The longer the wait, the more annoying it is. The more annoying it is, the less repeat visits from new visitors and loss of traffic by those with slower connections. Right now we don't have that much of a problem. But when the forum grows by multitudes (can you see the hopeful look on my face??), the switch will become necessary.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), October 27, 2000.

Tony, it is a good idea to add the three categories.

As for switching to the category only format. I have tried switching back and forth between the long form and the short form, finally settle on the long form on my Minox Photography forum. Because 1) P. Greenspun does not provide LUSENET users with a SEARCH function; with short form the user must click to several categories and look for what he in interested in; with long form, the user may use the "find" function of browser to look for key words. For example if he is interest in "Leicaflex" he can use "find" to loacate the thread or threads from the long forum quickly-- this is a poor substitude for the 'SEARCH" in photo.net, but better than none. (One main reason I have moved Minox forum to egroups, because egroups provide good text search ) 2) With long form it is easier for internet search engines to locate the threads in your forum, that will increase the traffic to this forum.

For example if I use search engine to look for "Minox duke" or "Minox Warhol" several search engines will get to threads on my Minox forum, in this way that forum has integrated into broader internet structure, and will attracts more new readers.

This is my 2 cents

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), October 27, 2000.

Great idea.We need more info about Photokina as we all need info about dork cameras like the Zorki,Fed,Holga.This is a Leica site.Real cameras,real photography,real quality. I trained as a watchmaker besides my photography.Have repaired some cameras.The cameras mentioned above are the same lack of quality as Russian/Ukranian watches.Trash that topic.I like the idea of masters with Leicas,HCB,DAH etc. Folks who attended their workshops.

-- jason gold (jason1155234@webtv.net), October 27, 2000.

Tony, How about as many categories as you/everyone sees fit, then for each, no more than say 10 of the latest threads (or those posted within the last month).

For older messages, provide links to the more comprehensive (and slower loading) archive. This archive can be identical to the front page with the same categories, but rather than only 10 threads each, they'll have all of them (minus the first, most recent 10 threads, or those that are under a month old.)

Thus, if you have 7 categories, the front page will load with only 70 threads max.

Another possiblity is not to have the archive, but rather have a comprehensive 2nd page (has all threads), to which people can bookmark and go to if they prefer- if they have a fast net connection, and a canonical first page that has a summary of the most recent threads added, for each category. A little like photo.net.

Dunno if LUSENET lets you do any of this...

RE: Categories

As Martin mentions, since LUSENET lacks a search function, categories are all the more important.

Def. yes on a category on Leica photogs. Photokina seems like just a yearly event (is that right?)- don't know if a whole category should be devoted to it. If you're going to have clones/third party, will something like Cosina/Voigt go there too? Maybe a general non-Leica RF section?

My $0.02.

-- Tse-Sung Wu (tsesung@yahoo.com), October 27, 2000.

I like the Leica Photographers category.

I agree that the Photokina category probably won't get much traffic for most of the year. Maybe rename it New Products or something like that.

I'd prefer to see a Leica Screw Mount category rather than a Leica Clones category. This would include an entire class of Leica cameras and lenses that don't currently have a home on your forum. It could also include the Russian, Japanese, English and other Leica LTM copies, including Cosina/Voigtlander, if desired.

-- Joe Buechler (jbuechler@toad.net), October 27, 2000.

Yes, a Leica photographers category definitely. Include URLs too if gallery is on the Web. Thanks Tony.

-- Steven Fong (steven@ima.org.sg), October 28, 2000.

All the responses are very much appreciated. The greenspun.com software is not really that flexible, so I cannot implement some of the functions that were suggested above. I have, however, gone with the advice to add the Leica Photographers and Leica Thread Mount categories.

Since we are all or mostly all "Leica Photographers," I think it would be appropriate to use this category for photographers of note who use Leica cameras, i.e. famous or infamous. Sound good?

Is having the Leica Thread Mount category in any way reduntant with having the "Classic" category?

Lastly, please let me know as you spot mis-categorized threads!! (especially LTM v. Classic v. ??)

Thanks!

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), October 28, 2000.

Tony,

Since we are coming up on the fifty year mark for the M series, and many consider some of the models classic, I don't think it is redundant to have classic and LTM categories. Some out of each design are "bread and butter" workhorses, and others are classics.

With the advent of Cosina LTM lenses, many may rediscover the Leica bodies that accept these without the M adapters, so the potential is there for more dialog about the long out of production LTM cameras.

While the intent is good, perhaps the actual narrative "Photokina" might be replaced with a less seasonal term such as "innovations" or "new releases"... or words to that effect.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), October 28, 2000.

Tony,

I am Russian and I am afraid to be pre-conceived concerning the quality of Russian/Ukrainian cameras like Zorkiy FED, Mir, Kiev etc. In 70B- 80Bs I visited a few works (Krasnogorsk, Kharkov, Kiev) where these were produced. I was surprised with a low level of culture of camera producing in comparison with Wetzlar. It is hard to say but itBs a true: nothing changed there from the years of NKVD till now, the same equipment, the same technology, the same culture. In 90-s the camera producing was almost stopped at all. I remember one occasion in FED Works (Kharkov), when I asked for the guide-man: what is the crash hearing around there, I was answered that this is the Assembling Section where leaf shutters for FED-Micron are assembled. Then I saw 10-15 men were sitting there around the table, all of them were knocking with hammers upon leafs and axles of shutters. Once in Kiev I came with the guarantee-card to service center to order adjusting my wide-angle lens. Three days after I came again to get back it adjusted (as I suggested). The repairman told me that he nothing can do with my lens and advised me to send it to the NezhinBs branch of BArsenalB where it was produced. Occasionally I had shaken the lens near my ear and we had heard the sound produced with shaking glass components. The repairman and me were shocked! Ha, ha! B we were thinking about subtle adjusting of the lens and he tried to make it vainly centering loosing elements! I knew Nezhin as a village where people produce very good cucumbers, but lensesB..(?!?). Sorry, but it seems to me that discussing of such kind of cameras (to be exact similarity of cameras) on this great Forum would be a time to waste. The Leica Forum would become like a whisky diluted with plenty of water. BTW, so named Russian Leica-copies of WWII Leicas (gold plated with a nazi symbols) are home-made from obvious ones produced in Kharkov and Krasnogorsk. Just my two copecks. Thanks.

-- Victor Randin (www.ved@enran.com.ua), October 30, 2000.

I've made the front page show older questions underneath their associated, clickable categories. I think this will be good, but if all 40 or so LDF members really start freaking out, I can change it back. The top page should load much faster, though.

Your humble moderator,

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), November 11, 2000.

I understand Victor Randin's point of view but I don't see any harm in including a "Leica Clones" category if that's what people want. If kept as a separate category, it should prevent the kind of adulteration about which Victor has expressed his concern. These cameras (FED, Zorki, etc.) seem to have gained some sort of curio status, if nothing else. Their value on the market seems to indicate that they are of interest to collectors.

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), November 16, 2000.