I have a young goat, born this past spring, who has started moving around on her front knees. If forced she will stand up and walk normally, but spends a lot of time on her knees. This years batch of kids are all sickly, small and just look unhealthy. They are weak acting and easy to catch because they fall down so easy, which makes me wonder if the problem isn't neurological. I followed the same regiment of treatment at birth, etc. as I have for ten years with worming, selenium, shots etc. Had two die during the summer, couldn't get up, ate and drank ok and bowel movement normal but just seemed to waste away. This has been so frustrating, have researched everything I can think of. The older does and buck are fine, just the kids seem to be dumpy and not sharp and health looking. Thanks for your help.

-- Betsy K (betsyk@pathwaynet.com), November 15, 2000

Answers

Betsy, how were these kids raised? Did you bottle feed or dam raise them? Has your herd been tested for CAE, and if bottle fed, did youpasteurize the milk? Have you had post mortems done on the two that died? Have they had a fecal test for coccidia? Cocci need a different wormer and regular wormers are ineffective on them. It definitely sounds serious, hopefully Vicki will see this and be able to add her perspective on it. What part of the country do you live in? I would check the hooves on the doe who is kneeling all the time. I had a buck who grazed that way for months. I figured it was just his idiosyncrisy unitl I trimmed his hooves, he had a half inch long thorn embedded in his hoof! If her feet are fine, how are her joints? One last question(sorry so many), have you brought in any new stock in the last year, and did they come from healthy herd?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 15, 2000.

Rebekah, Thank you for asking some important questions I've overlooked. These are Angora goats and the kids are raised by the doe. My herd has not been tested for anything since I've owned them (8-9 years). I did not have a postmortem done or fecal test for coccidia. I've wormed with Ivermec and Trimasole and have recently added the Safeguard block to the rotation. We are in Michigan.

I have not checked the hooves of the little ones since I sheared in September, they have been confined in a small pasture and I honestly didn't think of a foot injury. I did check her legs, thinking she may have injured them but there is no swelling and doesn't appear to be tender to the touch.

The only new stock to come on the farm in the last two years was the buck that I purchased from what I thought was a good breeder. Can the buck bring this CAE to the herd? I guess I really don't know what CAE stands for (though I have seen it in the posting earlier, just forgotten).

Maybe she is just to lazy to get up on her feet right away. That's really unusual for Angora Goat kids, they're usually pretty quick and active. Maybe I'd better get a sample in to the vet, hate to spend the money, seems I can't stretch the buck as far as I used to be able to around here. At least we've started selling hair again!

-- Betsy Koehnlein (betsyk@pathwaynet.com), November 15, 2000.

Hi Betsy, doesn't sound like the unthrifty look of your goats is related to the kneeling, unless you have foot rot or thrush. Then of course a kid who can't graze or eat because of knelling would look thin. Most folks think of diarrhea as the only form of cocci, when in fact it is the end result of severe damage. Seeing diarrhea is really nearly to late to save the animal since so much damage has been done, and diarrhea with blood you really should put the animal down, so much damage to the intestine has been done that yes you can "save" the animal but not to amount to much. Unthriftyness is usually a sign of worm or cocci burdens. Perhaps instead of a vet, how about a knowlegeable goat or sheep farmer in your area to come and look at these goats. Founder is another cause of lameness. It is a fine line you walk with fiber goats, you need lots of protein for hair growth, yet not so much as to cause founder. Would love to talk prevention management with you, on your cocci, worming etc. Also Nutritional causes of susceptability to worms, cocci and hoof rot, namely low copper levels. You have had some change in your herd since you have had goats for so long, is it a brand of feed, is your protein now coming from animal products where it use to come from real grain sources? Are you resistant to your worming program? Namely the safeguard block, would be useless here in Texas. Since we don't really know where our hay and grain is grown, is your area known for selenium defficiency? What dosage of Bo-Se or Mu-Se are you giving, and at what ages, what route of worming. More than welcome to contact me privately. Angoras like pygmys are just about immune to the effects of CAE, yes if raised artificially on CAE+ milk you can infect the animals, but infection in Angora herds is rare. Their problems are CL, and are usually infected at shearing. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 16, 2000.

Betsy - I bought a registered Nubian Doe about 3 years ago for nearly nothing from some folks just because she was doing the "kneeling" thing. I felt so sorry for her!! We had the same vet, who informed me that this herd was CAE free. After bringing her home, I took a really good look at her hooves...they were horrible!! She had overgrown hooves to the point of not being able to walk, the hard part of the hoof had grown so long and so hard that I had to use horse nips to even almost cut some down. This is why she kneeled on her knees. I got some hoof oil (fishy smelling stuff! for horses) from the feed store and soaked her hooves in them 3 times a day to soften the hard part (I can't remember the name of this part). I did this for a week or more. I then, once a week parred her hooves as close down as I could. Of course, this made her sore and she stayed on her knees still. I gave her aspirin for the pain (figured her knees had to hurt also, as well as her back from kneeling)..finally after about 2 months, her feet started to be "normal" and she quit kneeling. I have to do her feet very often, but she no longer kneels. Her first set of kids also have to have their feet done more than the other kids. Blessings, Sissy

-- sissy sylvester-barth (jerreleene@hotmail.com), November 16, 2000.