Hola from NM, goat folks. I've had my new Angora buck (my first) since October and breeding season is upon us. He's 8 months old and my girls are 'experienced' ladies. Two of my does are off to be with their beaus in another town and I'm left with the 3 that I want him to breed. My question is, should I just put him in with them and take my chances? Will they gang up on him and give him a complex? Last week I thought one doe was in, and when I put her with him, she nearly beat that little boy to death! He is currently housed next to the girls and corraled with 5 wethers; he has 'painted' a little but is not extremely smelly, and he's not climbing the walls to be with the girls; he's getting good feed and has gained weight since he's been here, he also gets free access to a Sheep & Goat Range block (Purina). Suggestions?

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), November 21, 2000

Answers

No suggestions, just a comment that I'm doing the same thing, our first buck, he was a little guy but we got him in August, he's been running with my girls (3, like yourself,) and is a pretty happy part of the herd. Its funny seeing our girls get all "flirty" with him!!! stuff to rotf over!!!!!:) Best wishes Deb....here's to many doelings this spring!!!

-- Beth Weber (talmidim88@hotmail.com), November 21, 2000.

By all means,put him in with the girls.You may be sure he can take care of himself. On the subject of smell....some stink worse than others.When we bring in our Nubian the neighbors complain of the smell.When the Boer comes to visit there is hardly any odor.Closest neighbor is about 300 yards away. JT

-- JT Sessions (gone2seed@hotmail.com), November 21, 2000.

Hi Debra! My older girls wouldn't let this little one near him. Course with Nubians you are also talking a huge size difference from a 80 pound, 8 month old buckling to an 8 year old 190 pound doe, so throwing your weight around takes on a whole new meaning! A great trick is to borrow a collar from a big old stinky buck, and put on the buckling. We also successfully bred an older doe this year by putting our older buck on the other side of the cattle panel fence, as she put her head through the fence to flirt with the big buck, we clipped her head to the fence, and then moved in the young squirt to breed her. Worked like a charm! An 8 month old handling 3 does wouldn't be that much of a big deal, as long as they don't beat him up to much, so you don't really need to hand breed because of not enough sperm count, I also would just let him out with the does, perhaps only during the day, when their is no grain feeding going on. If the gals who are off being bred come home with ode de` buck this will help everyone come into heat! Folks may complain about the smell of bucks, but it is a proven fact that you get a higher conception rate from big ole stinkers, and the fads from the past about descenting bucks at disbudding, no longer go on in older established herds. Also, with the addition of ammonium chloride and feeding of lower protein hays and grains will about illiminate urine scald. Good luck with your new little guy! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 21, 2000.

Howdy, all! Thanks for the info. Well, here goes... looks like there will be a little room-rearranging over the TG holidays! Wish us luck.

As for the smell, I was over at my friend's farm the other day when I delivered my two does. He's got several bucks, all Angoras, and it still didn't smell like a dairy or pygmy buck, just a mild musty odor, not at all offensive (at least to a goat person, that is!). And, too, his bucks are all quite a bit older and have more experience than mine. They were standing on the fences, leaning over, coughing, sneezing, tongues out... NOT real attractive, guys! Maybe my little guy thinks he's just one of the wethers? Well, that'll change this weekend. Cheerio! dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), November 22, 2000.

If they are beating up on him, I'd seperate him until they come into heat. Then they will be thrilled to have him around. I would also hand breed, once per doe, at the beginning of the heat cycle, and don't rebreed during that cycle. That is suppossed to result in more doe kids. I tried it with all the does(except the AI does) and will see how it works. Last year I let the buck rebreed each doe at about 12 hour intervals, and got an overwhelming proportion of buck kids.:( The theory is that the male sperm are speedy but lack stamina, whereas the female spem are slower but have more stamina. The does don't ovualte until they go out of heat, so if you breed once early in the cycle, it is more likely that any surviving sperm will result in doe kids. I am looking forward to seeing the results.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 22, 2000.

Rebekah, absolutly opposite! You don't AI until the thick mucousy last part of heat for more doe kids, the first part of heat and the young buck is what results in mostly bucks! The male sperm is not vigorous and gets all stuck up in the mucous, the female sperm being the most mobile, swims easily to the egg in the thick mucous! Even having said that over the life time of the doe you really pretty much get 50/50, Poptart will be 11 the day after she kids this year, and is after 9 freshenings right about 50/50 with 14 does and 12 bucks, though she started off with lots of does it evened out quickly with triplet bucks two years in a row! Amber will be 9 and hasn't even gave me a doe, but ultrsounded with quads!!!! Perhaps we will get all 8 of the doe kids in the next two kiddings? Course I am hoping for a buck this year out of her, for us! I don't ever put all my eggs in one basket with a young buck servicing my doe, because over the years, we have mostly had buck years using young bucks, who of course you have no interest in keeping a buck out of!! :)Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 23, 2000.

Well, you might be right, Vicki. I'm just repeating what a bunch of people on Alpine Talk said. They claimed that their doe ratio was greatly increased by breeding once, early. I hope that there was some validity to it, because I bred all tha natural service does that way this year. And after last year, I really cannot afford another season of nearly all buck kids! I thought that with AI you're supposed to breed as late as you can or even right after they go out of standing heat?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 24, 2000.

I'll say the doe kid prayer for you Rebekah! :) And yes you do AI in the last of standing heat, which is the thickest, mucousy part of heat. I will put two fingers in the vulva, and if I can still see my skin clearly than most of the time I will wait 6 more hours before I AI.. Everything in goats has to be done the hardest way, since if you did AI during the clear thin mucous you could see better! Lots of folks simply AI in standing heat and then 12 hours later. I like to wait as long as I dare and then repeat in 6 hours, if I have the extra straw and the semen was relatively inexpensive. Problem is most of the semen cost more to ship than it does to purchase. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 24, 2000.