I recently purchased a second-hand Leica M2 body after much deliberating on whether I should get a Leica, and if so, which M model. Basically, I couldn't afford a new or even a second-hand M6 so I got an M2. It doesn't look good cosmetically as some of the black coat have rubbed off, but the shutter, focusing, film advance, and self-timer mechanism are smooth and solid. I'm still saving up for a used 35/2 or 50/2 Summicron lens (coming next month's salary).

However, I noticed that the 50mm, and 75mm(?) frame lines aren't as visible as the 35mm (the default one). In fact, they're practically invisible. Also, the viewfinder isn't as bright as my Canonet QL17, which I bought in very good condition.

As I plan on using this camera a lot, any idea on whether I should have this repaired? Do I have to bring it exclusively to Leica, or can a good camera repair shop do this for me? How much am I expecting to pay for this (parts and labor)? By the way, I live in Thailand, but there's a Leica distributor here. Anyway, if it costs too much, I won't mind shooting with a 35mm lens since that's the only frameline I see.

-- Ron Gregorio (gregorio@ksc.th.com), November 27, 2000

Answers

Ron, There are no 75mm frame lines on the M2, only 50, 90 and 35. What's your camera's serial number by the way? It's a black M2? Jim

-- Jim Shields (jim.shields@tasis.ch), November 27, 2000.

I can't say what your repair will cost, but your camera needs a general going-over. And the rangefinder definitely needs cleaning and adjusting - you should not be limited to using only one lens. For your part, be sure the windows on the front of the camera are clean, although a dirty window is probably not the source of your rangefinder problem. Do not, however, entrust any repairs to unqualified persons.

-- Keith Nichols (knichols@iopener.net), November 27, 2000.

Thanks Jim. I guess the 3rd frame would be a 90 and not a 75, but it doesn't really matter because I can't see it. Yes the whole body is black, and it's a little ugly. Some brass is already showing on the edges and corners of the top and bottom plates. I don't know what this camera went through but the mechanics still feel solid except for the viewfinder problem that I mentioned above, which I can live with. Initially, I would have preferred a chrome M, but the M3 that the shop was selling at the same price as this one had a sticky film advance lever, so I chose this. I actually don't mind having this black one now since it looks less attractive to thieves when I'm shooting at undesirable places. The serial number is "M2-1132225" for your info. Anything special about black M2's?

I also noticed that on this one, when I push the frameline lever, the 35mm frame doesn't disappear, and the 50 and 90 framelines would only show when I push both the frameline lever and move the focusing cam inside the lens mount. Does this indicate anything other than general overhaul of the viewfinder? Would it be cheaper for me to exchange this with the chrome M3 since that one has a good viewfinder, but sticky advance lever? Again, any input would be appreciated.

-- Ron Gregorio (gregorio@ksc.th.com), November 27, 2000.

Well the camera was made in 1965 and it is possible that it is a genuine black paint model....maybe. This was the last year of a significant number of black paint cameras (300). If it is a genuine black paint camera, it would be worth somewhere in the $3500US to $6000US range. The fact that the viewfinder is not working well would detract from the price. At this point I would consult with a Leica expert. The viewfinder should be brighter than a Cannon QL and the framelines should only be in view one at a time. It may be possible to repair the finder but probably not in Thailand. Even if the M2 turns out not to be an original black paint model, it is worth more than a chrome one. I will ask around and see if I can find out how to identify an original black paint camera.

Cheers

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), November 27, 2000.

1132225 born on August 18, 1965. Chrome. Sounds like a nice beater anyway. Get it repaired.

-- Jim Shields (jim.shields@tasis.ch), November 27, 2000.

Production figures:

8/18/65 – M2 Black –1130001 to1130300 – 300 8/18/65 – M2 – 1130301 to 1133000 – 2600

These are the numbers from the Leica and you can see that your serial number is outside the range for black cameras. The date refers to when the numbers were allocated and is not an actual production date. That does not mean it is not an original camera as Leica serial number lists are only a guide at best. Still looking...

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), November 27, 2000.

There are over 20 individual glass surfaces that need to be cleaned inside the finders, but there is also the possibility that the finder has gone bad and needs replacing with a whole new unit from leica. Bill Maxwell told me 2 or 3 out of 10 older M cameras with dim finders can not be cleaned because the silvering on some surfaces and/or the small prism has gone bad. I was lucky and my M3 cleaned up 100% and it was the best $200 I spend on my Leica system to have Bill completely go through the camera and make it work like new again. Is there any authorized Leica repair facilities in your country?

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), November 27, 2000.

Well because it is not in the official black paint list, it will not be worth the big dollars; but, this does not mean it is not original. There are documented black paint M2s that are not in the list and, in the early seventies, Leica would do black paint conversions on request. It is still worth significantly more than a chrome model. My advice would be to fix the viewfinder if possible and sell it to buy a used M6.

Cheers

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), November 27, 2000.

Thanks everyone for your replies. John and Jim, I really appreciate your efforts and candor. I had to re-read your 1st reply a couple of times to confirm that there wasn't an extra zero on the price estimate. I also did some serious latenight research on the net on this topic. Now, I feel better that the three-figure price I paid for this camera wasn't as expensive as I thought, even if it's not an original "black paint". My guess is that the previous owner had a chrome version painted black, but I'm still hoping that maybe it's one of those unlisted originals. Is there a way of telling the original Leica black paints from the those repainted by 3rd parties? Also, is the black paint list that you have the same as the list on CameraQuest.com? Personally, I think the reason why Leica did not make a lot of black paint M's is because they look ugly after years of use even though I read somewhere that they're built the same as the chromes. Andrew, I'll check here in Bangkok if there's an authorized Leica repair shop. In any case, could you email me Bill Maxwell's address? I'm going to check how much it would cost to repair this here and see if it will be worth trading it in for a used M6 before or after the repair. Anyway, repaired or not, I'm just excited to shoot with it already after I get my lens.

-- Ron Gregorio (gregorio@ksc.th.com), November 28, 2000.

The info on Stephen's site is straight from Leica so it is "the list". The only way to tell for sure if it is a genuine black paint camera would be to research its history. Not an easy task but the best place to start would be finding out where the store that sold it to you got it from. To Leica collectors, the brassy look of a worn black paint camera is beautiful and it is the one area where a well used brassy black paint camera is worth more than a mint one! Strange but true.

Cheers

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), November 28, 2000.

I seem to have misplaced Bill Maxwell's address. His phone number is 404-244-0095.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), November 29, 2000.

Wouldn't a repaint would have a layer of chrome under the black, not just brass? You could check by removing a tiny amount of black in a hidden spot, for example under the baseplate latch, or perhaps by temporarily removing the accessory shoe.

The M4 was the last Leica built by hand-fitting each part, as poposed to "go/no-go" fitting in all subsequent models. You can certainly feel the difference. For this reason, and because the rangefinder patch in the M6 can "flare out" -literally vanish- at inconvenient moments, I think a good M4 is preferable unless you really need that mete

-- david m. kelly (kellyco@teleport.com), December 02, 2000.

Sorry about those typos! Bill Maxwell is at Maxwell Precision Optics, P.O. Box 33146, Decatur, GA 30033-014

-- David m. Kelly (kellyco@teleport.com), December 02, 2000.

You might not find chrome under the black paint. Apparently some chrome cameras have the chrome stripped off before painting.

-- Jim Shields (jim.shields@tasis.ch), December 03, 2000.

Thanks for Bill's address and tel. no. I'm still looking for a good shop here.

I didn't notice any chrome on the top and bottom plates. However, I do notice a bit of silver metallic surface underneath the black paint of the self-timer lever, rewind lever, and frameline lever. It's not brass as the top and bottom plates.

-- Ron Gregorio (gregorio@ksc.th.com), December 04, 2000.

The reason for your vannishing framelines lies in dust in the screen made out of acetate (film basis) onto which framelines are printed by negative process.Have an skilled repaiman clean it as well as all cristal surfaces (very carfully). You will enjoy your M2, wheather original black or not. Luck¡

-- mr. Sergio Casillas (sercaba48@hotmail.com), October 07, 2001.