Just thought I'd share a laugh with you all. (don't read any further if someone getting sick makes you sick). I thought my headache was just from too much coffee, but I was on the way home from the 4-H homeschool meeting when my tummy started that rumbling thing... The thought of slowing to a stop from 65mph, running over those damn rumble strips on the side of the Maine highways and then getting out in the rain with traffic going by at 70mph+ just made me more nauseous. My four year old was laying her head on my 1 year old's car seat and yelling that the one year old was pulling her hair, at which point my four year old decided to pinch the younger one and all hell broke out. Later Bill and I were joking about it. I told him when the guys bragged about their women he could come back with: well my woman can muck the stalls, drive screaming kids half hour to Bangor while suffering a headache, drive them back home screaming while puking into a coffee can, and still make chicken parmasean from scratch for supper! What a contrast from the girl in Connecticut who wouldn't leave the house without full makeup! Maybe ya had to be there... But I did get good news yesterday: Grandma came to bring little Anna and Freddy home. For some reason my girls' nightlights were getting turned off at night and the pilot lights on the gas stove kept going out. I just turned the lights back on and we had the stove checked. No malfunctions. Then one day my 9yr old came and said she saw a little girl go from one back bedroom into another through closed doors the night before. Now, I'm not a big believer in ghosts or such so when I was talking to Bill on the phone I told him we had to do something so my daughter wasn't scared, but I don't believe in ghosts. At that, the clock came flying down so hard the battery came out! OK, so I do now believe in ghosts even though I do not want to! So I emailed a friend after finding out that a little girl had died in a fire here. Well, it wasn't just the little girl Anna, she stayed behind because her little brother, Freddie was too afraid to go into the light because of the fire. So my email buddy got ahold of their grandmother on the other side and she led them through the light. Anna and Freddie said they were sorry, didn't mean to scare anyone, just were bored. In my search for info about the house, my neighbor told me a family down the road had moved out of here because of the ghosts in this house! No wonder we got such a good deal on 10acres, three bedroom house less than 20 yrs old, and two car garage for 50,000 in this part of the state. Aye! And further news from Maine, my vet had two of his horses shot by two bored teens who admitted they did it on purpose. Were they arrested? Nope, sent home to mom and dad until the wardens decided what to do with them. Vet's fiance only asked that those boys dig the holes for the horses, did it happen? nope! So we're planning a convoy of trailers from the scene of the crime to the courthouse. I've had my horse let out of it's pasture and chased into the road by teens and a number of friends have had teens mess with their horses. Nothing is ever done and we are sick of it! Hopefully these kids will be taught a lesson this time. A very interesting week on this homestead! Anyone else buy a place to find out there were already occupents?

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), November 29, 2000

Answers

I can't really comment on your ghosts, but can sure relate to the horses being killed. I live in a fairly rural area, outside of a town of about 6,000, with a couple other towns (one has about a 50,000 pop.) within about an hour's drive. The last few years we have had a rash of livestock shootings. (Not us personally, thank God.) Several friends who ranch nearby have lost cattle on a regular basis, sometimes the cows are shot and calves stolen, sometimes cows are shot for "camp meat" during hunting season, but often they are just shot for "fun". A friend of ours just up the road had his 16+ hand chestnut Quarter horse gut shot. The horse was in a pasture right by their house. Another rancher had his pregnant mare shot 18 times - he found her still alive. A family who lives almost right in town had their white gelding shot in the head - miraculously he survived. We had 3 teen boys who called themselves the ATM club (they'd shoot Anything That Moves). They were running around in a truck, shooting livestock, wildlife, etc. The game warden found a huge bull elk that they had gut shot and left to die, and I think someone had seen the "boys" do this and turned them in. So they finally went to court, got a slap on the wrist. Not long after, my dh & I were out riding and my horse went lame. I walked him to a set of corrals while my dh went back for the truck & trailer. While I was waiting I unsaddled and sat down near my horse. A truck pulled up and someone shot at my horse (missed and hit a post). I jumped up and started screaming at them and run them off (not smart since I wasn't armed). When we gave a description to the sheriff later, we were told it was the ATM boys again. We also frequently have "kids" who go around town shooting out windows and glass doors of businesses. They almost always get caught, but nothing much ever happens to them, so it keeps happening. And I believe our judges here are in general much tougher than most places. But truthfully, criminals just have no fear of the law anymore as there are no consequences for their actions, so why should they change their behavior? I don't exactly believe in the old chain gangs anymore, but we need severe penalties for breaking the law, and need them swiftly carried out, not delayed for 20 years. I would sure like to see a change in our justice system. I wish you luck with your trailer convoy, and hope you get some attention. Be sure to call your news media and try to get some coverage.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@webtv.net), November 29, 2000.

Do call your local news media about the horse convoy!!! I am a newspaper reporter (21 years). Be persistant. Call every newspaper and every TV and radio station in the area. Have someone write a PREE RELEASE and fax it to every TV, radio station, and newspaper, big and small, in the area. Then follow that up with ANOTHER phone call making sure they received the fax. Also if anyone in your group knows a reporter, phone that reporter DIRECTLY and tell them about the convoy too. Good luck!!!

-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), November 29, 2000.

called the newspapers and tv news people got emails. We made up a flier and that's being circulated, I don't have a fax machine though. Already we have people from as far away as NY who said they're coming.Local police are outraged and have offered escorts for the convoy, they said screw it if we clog traffic! Not our intention, but it shows how outraged they are. I can't believe 'kids' can get off so easy on this, not too long ago, they would have been hung! I got more calls to make....

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), November 29, 2000.

Being a horse person, I can relate -- fortunately, we don't have bored livestock killers in our area (yet). A hunter (drunk) shot and killed a horse two years ago with a young girl riding it, because he 'saw a flash of white and knew it was a big buck'. Public outcry got his license taken away for a few years, but I doubt it's stopped him. We had a woman here who starved to death an unknown number of miniature horses and ponies (we only found 9 bodies piled up after the snow started and they couldn't dig holes anymore) -- they were diseased, lice infested, full of worms, and the judge basically said 'Oh the poor dear, she must have all kinds of stress trauma, couldn't afford to feed all 120 of them -- you can sell your horses to someone else and you can't have horses for another two years. Case dismissed." That was it. Outrage on the part of horsepeople and the newspaper in the area did no good at all. She bought a new car and drove it around while the trial was going on, and had been lauded in the papers previous to this for having done $2.3 MILLION in real estate sales just that year. Poor my A**!!!

I do/did have a previous 'tenant' in my current house. I believe it is my grandmother, who was kind of dotty before she died and who rambled around the house all hours of the night, and apparently still does at times. I have found that if I announce to her that I am going to go to bed now, could you please be a little quiet for me? She does, so I'm assuming it is her. She died in a nursing home, but I'm not sure her spirit detatched from the house. I wouldn't mind if it was my grampa either, but I don't think it's him, unless someone starts haunting the basement where he worked all the time. We did have our old beagle come back when I was a child -- scared the bejabbers out of my sister and me (10 and 7 at the time). Now I'd just open the door for him.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), November 29, 2000.

And close the door, and open the door, and close the door, and open the door, and close the door, and open the door . . . . . ;-)

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), November 29, 2000.

I certainly have experience with livestock being shot. Something happened here recently that has all of us shaking out heads. I live in an area referred to as the scenic riverways of Missouri. Lots of state parks in the area with breathtaking scenery. I didn't know there was a herd of wild mustangs in the parks till I read where a couple of weeks ago someone shot three of the fifteen horses. This was just senseless. Growing up in northeast texas on a large cattle ranch we had cows shot from time to time. We raised registered grey brahmas. My papa was a very easy going man but I remember how mad he got when someone shot one of his prize bulls. He said it wouldn't have upset him near as much if they had taken some meat.....then he could think maybe it was someone that was starving and trying to feed their family. We have had people shoot cows and take the hind quarters. Papa would just shake his head over those and figure the people were desperate. You have to wonder why the parents of these kids when they find out about it don't do something themselves instead of just letting the courts give them a slap on the wrist. I bet if more people would sue the parents for the damages they would do something. I sure don't advocate suing people (I think folks are too sue happy already) but if the parents don't put their kids in their place then they need some motivation. If I ever caught one of my kids doing anything like that I can guarantee what I would do to them would be worse than anything the courts would do!! I know my parents would have done the same thing. Kids no longer have a (healthy) fear of their parents....of course they are destructive.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), November 29, 2000.

Well, I'de like to respond to your ghost situation. We also bought a house that was already occupied.(no longer live there) Right after we moved in our radio would go on by itself we'd turn it off walk away & on it would go again. Got a different radio same thing. Then, the tv would turn off while we were all watching. We'de turn it on off it would go again. Our 2 youngest children would often say they saw 2 little girls go thru closed doors and wacth them at night at the end of their beds. My kids said their names were Sarah & Amy & they wore pilgrim clothes. Items in our house would be misplaced missing whatever after just seeing them 3 days later show up on your pillow next to your head or somewhere else very obvious!! All 4 of our kids stopped sleeping in their rooms. Doorbell would ring it was broken & noone was there. The only thing that happens in this house is our microwave beeps, sounds like morse code. It's always done that.Got that after we moved

-- fred in wi (sixuvusmeyers@aol.com), November 29, 2000.

My mother kept my brothers ashes in her house, he died of AIDS at the age of 36, when the disease was "new". She said she would see him at the foot of her bed at night and tell him to go away, it bothered her. Once while visiting I got a strange feeling, as if being called. I went into one of the spare bedrooms and on a shelf above the clothes hanger in a box I found the ashes. My parents couldn't believe I found them as my dad had hid them from mother. A few days later she went down to the river and threw them off the bridge, she couldn't take it anymore. He left her alone after that. I wish he would visit me, sometimes I dream of him and he is happy and healthy, I watched him die and my dreams make me feel better, maybe it really is him?

-- Tina (clia88@newmexico.com), November 29, 2000.

Fred -- you don't live around Horicon, do you? There was a semi- famous haunting in a house there that sounds much like what you're describing. They thought they'd gotten rid of the focus -- hopefully you didn't buy *THAT* house...

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), November 30, 2000.

Amanda's mentioning the mustangs that were shot reminded me that we had the same thing happen here a few years ago. We have a lot of mustangs around here and several years ago some were shot (I believe 3-4) in the Ochoco Mts. near us. On the other hand, that was better than what the Forest Service did to them - we had a bad winter one year and the mustangs tried to come down off the mountains so they could find something to eat. Of course there are fences preventing them from doing so, so some local citizens wanted the horses fed, and were willing to do it themselves it necessary. Forest Service said that it was wrong to interfere with "nature". (Like nature put the fences there, right?) Anyway, about 60 horses had been adopted out prior to this, which left about 180 head up there. At winter's end, only approx. 35-40 horses survived, thanks to the Forest Service's "management". I agree with Amanda regarding many parents not being responsible for their kids. I STILL remember my first day of school when my parents informed me that for any punishment I was given at school, I could count on double the punishment when I got home. I was a lot more afraid of what my parents would do than the school! : )

-- Lenette (kigervixen@webtv.net), November 30, 2000.

I thought I would update all you animal lovers out there: the newspaper did a report on our convoy and the calls have been coming in! People who don't even own animals have called to tell us they will be there. People who are too elderly to drive are calling to tell us they support us. People from NH are coming. I emailed our governor and elected officials an invitation to join us. Although I am sad to hear it, the boys who did this have been taken out of school because fellow students have threatened them. This is getting huge! For the newspaper article go to www.bangornews.com/cgi- bin/article.cfm?storynumber=24565

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), November 30, 2000.

Well good for you!I'm sorry the boys were threatened,but perhaps it will be what it takes to get thru to them that what they did was so wrong.Animal killers all too often move onto bigger things,so it would be for their own good to scare them out of it, now.

On ghosts and livestock killers,have known both, and will take the ghosts, anyday.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), November 30, 2000.

Ghost? Well Yes we have several on the place. Then again our land was one of the places part of the Battle of Kings Mountain took place on.

As for "Kids" shooting animals. They need a good whipping. Then some proper firearms training. Just another reminder of what happens when the state gets involved in education. (Most states voted to remove the Hunter Safety Courses from their curriculum)

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), November 30, 2000.

If anyone messed with any of my animals I'd need to call the undertaker, not the police. 'nuf said

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), November 30, 2000.

Howdy from the SW. Regarding those poor bored teens, I hope their parents have to pay a little for this. Until those kids are out of the house, mom & dad should be a LITTLE responsible for what they've created. There is a part of me that really hates to think like this, but I am sooooo fearful that so MANY young people seem to have no regard for life or share responsibility in anything. They will end up like this as adults, too.

Regarding mustangs being shot. I'm going to post more about this on the Horse Thread as soon as I get more info. But, there is a small group of descendents of the true Spanish horses that Onate brought over to America back in the 1500's that are running in a supposedly already designated 'Wildhorse Territory', that are all of a sudden in danger of being removed by the El Rito Ranger District, probably by being destroyed. It looks like they are in conflict with the local cattle grazers who also use this area (what a surprise), only 56,866 acres. Seems to me there's enough room for both. I'd like to get more accurate info on this before I post it, if anyone is interested in contacting Bruce Babbit. www.horse-rescue.org is supposed to have more info, but I couldn't find it when I took a quick look.

Horse lovers, we all know how rare the true Spanish Mustang is; shouldn't we save a few??? Yours in the SW, debra in nm.

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), December 01, 2000.

Debra: keep us posted, I have one adopted mustang, I love her, and she thinks she is a dog. She is a watch dog for my goats,kills cyotees. diane

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 01, 2000.

Parents responsible for their kids?? I have to say this is a sore subject for me. Here in WA, the kids are trught in preschool to call 911 if their parents threaten or raise a hand to them. I got in trouble (verbal reprimand and threat of taking my kids from me) many years ago by an off duty police officer for slapping my sons hand in the bank when he almost pulled a metal pole over. This same son was at our city park with a bunch of friends, he got on a picnic table and was going to jump off the end (I'm not excusing him being on top of the table, just the stupid kind of thing most kids his age do when they're with a bunch of friends). Well, the end of the board was rotten and broke off. No problem, we'll replace it right? Of course not! We'll put him in a program called diversion, fine the parents a $100 dollars and give him 16 hrs community service. Well, we made him work off the $100 dollars, although the program doesn't care. I sure wasn't paying for that, but we were told the board that was replaced by the city cost a whole $9.75. Oh, he had to pay also, in addition to everything else. Seems to me we could have made him much more responsible and the discipline mean a little more if he'd had to replace the board himself. His community service? Boy that really taught him a lesson, walking a dog from the pound and playing with it for 16 hours over 3 weeks. That lesson was so well taught, he wanted to continue walking the dog on his own. Now, please tell me what to do with this son who is taller than me, outweighs me by probably at least 50 pounds, and is repeatedly told at school that as parents, we have no right to spank, hit, or discipline him in any way. It's not that I don't want to discipline him or make him mind, etc., but what do I do with a child who broke a picnic table? Would you like to take him off my hands for the last few of his teenage years?

Just as an aside: 2 weeks before this happened, we had some local bikers who had a big party at the city park. During their party, they lit a whole picnic table on fire and threw it into the river.

-- Amber in WA (mikeandamberq@hotmail.com), December 03, 2000.

Sorry for the ranting. As you can tell, this issue frustates me. I totally agree that punishment handed to most kids for serious crimes is not enough or doesn't go far enough. I'm not saying my son didn't do anything wrong, but come on, $100, 16 hrs community service, plus the cost of the board for breaking a rotton board? When will the punishments fit the crime? I also agree that parents should be held responsible to an extent, but how can we teach our children to listen and respect us when they have no fear of serious punishment. Taking away TV, phone privileges, etc, does not work for all kids. When does the state take responsibily for the monsters it has created by taking all rights away from the parents? Only when they're old enough and far enough into a bad life to (hardly ever) be turned back. And again, who gets the blame for they're upbringing? Not the state which has created the problem, that's for sure.

-- Amber in WA (mikeandamberq@hotmail.com), December 04, 2000.

The two young men who shot the horses were supposed to be araigned today, but the judge decided to keep them in juvy hall until next spring to araign them. They decided to wait until we all calm down, I guess, but I say- springtime is when horse owners are itching to ride again! Convoy is still on and growing by the day. Over 100 have said they're coming and that doesn't include the locals who will just show up.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), December 04, 2000.

Amber, I've got one for you. My son and a friend were getting picked on and hurt by a boy during recess. Repeatedly telling the teacher in charge brought no results so the friend said, "Will you come with me to see the principle?" My son said "Sure" What happened? My son and his friend got detention for not getting permission for going off the playground. Reason givin was that they could have gotten hit by a a car if they went into the street. They went straight into the school, nowhere near the street. (I think the teacher was embarrassed that she was caught not doing anything) What did this teach my son and his friend? Well, it taught my son to be afraid of authority figures and his friend to just hit everyone who annoys him. Boy, the school really taught them. What happened to the bully? Nothing.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 04, 2000.