Well here's yet another goat question: my husband and I plan to buy a dairy animal this summer, even though we have a good source of raw cow's milk from which I make lots of cheese and other dairy products. I know it may not be the most economical way to go, but since I make many of my own products from scratch, I want to go all the way.

We had originally decided on a goat because we simply do not need the quantity of milk that even a small cow provides. But the problem is that neither my husband nor I are all that fond of goats' milk! It seems to have an obvious odor and flavor, although I must admit the only goats' milk we've tried is from the store.

Thing is, is REALLY fresh goat milk a whole other story? If not, do you get used to the odd odor? I keep thinking I'm prejudiced because I'm used to cows milk. I'd love any feedback from people who milk their own goats but have experience with both goat and cow milk. Goat cheese is the best, but if we're always going to have an aversion to the milk then it's pointless to get a goat in the first place!

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), December 01, 2000

Answers

I agree. No sense in raising livestock if you're not going to consume what they produce. I don't know why store goat's milk tastes so bad, but it is definitely rank stuff. Nothing like homwgrown. Fresh, CLEAN goat's milk doesn't have an odd odor or a bad taste. There are some who claim that fresh, clean goat milk tastes just like cow's milk. I have to disgree. There is a difference, but it's not necessarily a bad difference. Kind of like how raspberries and strawberries taste different. See if you can hunt out a reputable goat breeder in your area who is professional and sanitary about what they do, and get a cold sample of their milk. if the people have a buck goat rubbing all over the does, and they don't wash the udders or their hands before milking, and milk into plastic, and then don't strain the milk or cool it quickly, then even fresh milk is going to taste bad, cow or goat.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 01, 2000.

I used to have a website bookmarked about the comaprisions of the 2. Here are 2 sources i remember off the top of my head; http://www.adga.org and the national goat handbook, don't have addy handy bit try doing a search on it. Actually, as rebekah mentioned, there is no real difference in taste, however, theere is a slight difference in some of the goat milk. I also depends upon not only the buck and hygine and sanitary practices, but feed too. in the spring when my girls get into the wild onions you sure can taste it in the milk! but overall goat milk, according to the experts is better for you. Hope this helps.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 01, 2000.

I like goats milk as long as there isn't a buck with 50 miles! Even washing your hands and the does udders good don't seem to help if there is a buck on the place. I have milked both cows and goats and goats milk tastes good but seems like it picks up any off odors that are anywhere near it moreso than a cow...not sure why. I prefer a cow because I like to make butter and cheese but a goat is easier to milk and won't overwhelm you with milk. I can always find a use for extra milk though. As far as getting used to the taste of 'funny' goats milk...I don't think I ever could.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 02, 2000.

On my farm, we're anxiously awaiting the goats freshening again so we can stopping drinking cow's milk from the store. Gads, that stuff is awful---thin, watery and with an odd flat aftertaste. And that's the full fat milk, too---not skim or 2% stuff. My daughter looks at me mournfully everytime I give her a glass, and asks, "Is this our own milk, or cow's milk?" She's not happy with the answer.

Now we understand why milk consumption has fallen drastically in the US...

But you're absolutely right about the ultra-pasteurized goat's milk on the market---something about the processing makes it taste vile. But don't go by that---find someone with a dairy goat and ask to taste the milk fresh. Goat's milk normally tastes like cow's milk, except a bit sweeter and with a better mouth feel. It's wonderful.

If you have a goat with offtasting milk (and cows get this too---it's called "cowy" milk), there's some disease process going on---the goat is either infested with parasites, has a subclinical mastitis, or is not being fed the correct trace minerals (very important!) by the owner, usually out of ignorance since goats are not valued as a species. As I said, normally goat's milk is delightful to drink and use in the home.

And personally, I can't wait until I can put some goat milk in my morning coffee instead of this watery whitewash I'm stuck with now....

Hurry, Spring!

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), December 02, 2000.

There are probably some goats with off-flavor tasting milk, but I've never had one. After milking I would always put the milk container in the freezer as soon as I got in so it would cool down fast, removing it before it started to freeze (I don't remember for sure, but it was 1/2 to 1 hour). You couldn't tell it from cow's milk - so rich and good. My brother said he wouldn't try my goat's milk, but days later served it to him at a meal. To this day he doesn't know he was drinking goat's milk.

-- Betty (MI) (brolffs@voyager.net), December 02, 2000.

If you want to know why that store stuff tastes so bad - look at the outdate on it!! I don't know what they do to it but it is really awful stuff. We have big goat dairys here in Michigan and they only pick up once or twice a week. Goat's milk is very "tender" and requires careful handling, but it is so worth it. Oh, and I did have one goat once with off flavored milk, I did everything and could never change it or stand it. Ended up just feeding all her milk out to stock. I house my bucks in separate quarters and never have a problem with the milk picking up the taste or smell of them. diane in michigan

-- Diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 02, 2000.

Fresh goat's milk is delicious, although we bought a cow.

If you don't want to be overwhelmed by too much cow's milk, but you just plain prefer cow's milk to goats (as we do), choose a small breed of cow. We have Dexters, a single-family sized breed first bred by the Irish. They're surprisingly common, once you start trying to find them. Just in our area I found five or six breeders at least, and if finding a bull is difficult or you don't want to transport your cow when the time comes you can always breed them A.I. They give about 1 to 3 gallons of milk per day, although I only milk mine once a day so I get a bit less (although plenty for our needs). The milk is wonderful, and so are the cows - they only come up to my chest (and I'm 5'2") and are extremely friendly. If you want more info, enter "American Dexter Cattle Association" into your nearest search engine.

Good luck.

-- Patrice (dldesigns@wave.net), December 02, 2000.

Something I wouldn't post on some of my other forums, but: The reason most goat milk in the grocery stores taste the way it does is because of the owners. Once you go commercial you have no choice but to skimp. Most of this skimping comes in the way of poorer quality roughage grain and animal fat products in your grains. Poorer quality hay, because you have to milk, bottle, and market your own product the animals suffer and feet don't get trimmed as often, overall cleanliness of your place and stock suffer, and the list goes on and on. And so I could guarantee that if you visited my farm and tasted my milk you would not say it had an odor or an off taste to it, if I cut my management back to make a profit at 34cents a pound (the price I can sell it for in town to a cheese maker) yes odors would creep into the milk. I make 50cents per pound for my milk and sold it for years frozen to a candy maker in Houston. She paid the 50cents per pound so she wouldn't get the smell of goats milk that comes from the dairy that is less than a 10 minute drive from her home. She drove 1 and 1/2 hours to come to me each week to pick up the milk, driving pass 2 grade A dairy goat farms on the way. I am no longer selling milk small commercial anymore and very ironically this milk contract was sold to a friend of mine which is nearly 50 miles further away from Houston, than I am. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 02, 2000.

Go with the goats.Notice the plural there.You will need at least two so they can keep each other company. Clean,quickly cooled goat milk tastes better than commercial cows milk.There should not be any "off"flavor at all if you keep the does and bucks well seperated.Some say that molasses in the feed causes a bad taste but I have never had that problem.

-- JT Sessions (gone2seed@hotmail.com), December 02, 2000.

I love both raw cow's and goats' milk for flavor, although my experience also showed a tendency for goatmilk to go off easier and quicker. Only thing I can add to these excellent posts on the side of the cow is, how much easier it is to make things out of cow milk than goat, unless you have a separator. Also, I believe cow milk to be more versatile for different varieties of cheesemaking, having made lots of cheese from both species.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), December 02, 2000.

I was the one who posed the original question here because I really needed to hear from people who could provide an opinion. Well, not only was my question answered, but I got a whole lot of other great information into the bargain! Thank you all for your informative posts -it's most appreciated! (And any further posts as well)

Leslie A. from S. Cal.

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), December 02, 2000.

Gosh, Earthmama, I can't think of a single cheese made of cow's milk that I haven't made of goat's milk, and quite successfully, too. Cheddar, Cheshire, Colby, Mozzarella, Provolone, Feta, Camembert, Gouda and Blue. Natural rind and waxed! The whole blessed spectrum, and Lord knows it a wide one. I think you're limiting yourself by sticking to cow's milk... it's a wide world out there. Might as well explore the whole thing!

As for butter, it's easy enough to skim what rises off of goat's milk (and it is slower to rise, I admit) and pop it into a jar in the freezer until there is enough to churn. I have no trouble at all keeping goat milk sweet for 10 days in a cold fridge. Cultured for a day with a bit of buttermilk or buttermilk DVI, goat cream makes a first rate, and very mild butter.

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), December 03, 2000.

Say Julia, you must be a way better cheese maker than me! I made lots of cheeses from goats' milk years back, and they never tasted as good to us as the ones from cows. Even the one's I purchase have the same effect on us. Perhaps it's simply a matter of personal taste preference. Only goat cheese we buy anymore is an occassional tube of fresh chevre. But I really did love the fresh milk! (and the sweet goats)

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), December 03, 2000.

Maybe you quit too soon, Earthmama. A lot of my early cheeses left something to be desired, but once I got in the groove, and began to understand the graceful ballet dance that is cheesemaking, it got easy, and the cheeses began to really hum.

But for what it's worth, I have never been able to make cow's milk curd cheddar correctly...

As for store bought, there's lots of really cruddy cheese out there polluting the universe, both goat and cow, but when you find a really talented artisan cheesemaker, you're talking something else altogether. Buy cheese (if you must buy cheese) from some of the small artisan cheesemakers who are into quality instead of "quick and dirty" profits,and you might be surprised...

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), December 03, 2000.

As far as my family and i are concerned goats milk is far better than cows milk. we raise Toggenburgs and as long as they have not been newly bred, kept clean and milking containers kept sterlized properly; you will have the richest tasting milk ever. i have heard of some goats who give off bad tasting milk, but i have never experienced it.

-- lisa liddle (lisasnat@bellsouth.net), December 04, 2000.

Thanks Julia, I thought maybe I was the wierd duck. I have had a lot of success with my goats milk cheeses, so much so that I even was able to sell most of what I made. The only one I didn't get right, ever, was the cheddar. The colby was better than any I had ever eaten. I frequently have milk around for 5-10 days before it hints at off tasting, plenty of time to skim it. When I have just one in milk, as I do now, I skim and freeze cream until I have enough for butter. diane

-- Diane Green (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 04, 2000.

Hi! I still don't have a goat.For some reason ,my husband doesn't seem to like them much.Anyways,I bought some(the whole 5 lb. amount) raw goats' milk cheddar from my food coop.My children seem to like it,which is the most important thing to me,but it tastes,well,funny. Not spoiled but not much like the raw cows' milk cheddar I usually buy.A bit goaty.Is this really just how goats' cheese is?I grew up on cows' milk-I really enjoy a nice cold glass of milk and some good cheese.I sure do like goats and believe their milk to be better for one's health than cows'...Any helpful comments?Are cows harder to care for?(My husband likes cows.)(As you can tell,I'm not much of a farm girl(raised in Navy Housing...)more a wannabee...

Leslie,I hope you don't mind my asking questions on your post.

Thanks bunches,God Bless,~~Tracy~~

-- Tracy Jo Neff (tntneff@ifriendly.com), December 05, 2000.

Tracy, immagine a gallon of milk. Then add a clove of garlic to it to make the milk taste bad, keep the garlic in it for about 24 hours, and take it out, the milk tastes pretty bad right? Now condense that 1 gallon of milk down into about 6 ounces of cheese, and you have what, a worse tasting product because it is concentrated. So using the freshest best tasting product to begin with is the best. With just a few milkers at most folks house you have to store milk to get enough up to make cheese, and storing the milk incorrectly or not cooling it fast enough is usually the problem. There are just so many factors present in raw products of anykind, it really would be like saying that your scrambled eggs from your Rhode Island Red is better than your scrambled eggs from your Leghorn. Maybe the leghorn egg sat out in the hen house un gathered for a week......Then of course in goats are the cheeses that are supposed to be very pungent, a muslim friend of mine makes cheese that sells very well that to me tastes like what my bucks ear would! Yet I adore her blue cheese! Go figure :) The cheese plant in town purchases milk from all over, never tasting the individual milk purchases, just pours them into the bulk tank. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 05, 2000.

Thanks so much for the response Vicki!Now I don't have to give up on my idea of having goats.

Say,the only goats I've ever been around were real sweeties,yet my husband seems to think they are rather mean and would enjoy butting our children given the opportunity.Is there any truth to his worries I wonder.[Not to bash my husband-he's a great guy,very conscientious,capable,helpful,etc.etc.etc.,but he'd be the first one to admit that he does tend to worry a wee bit.He didn't grow up around farm animals either.]

Thanks again!

Leslie,I hope your decision goes well!

Blessings to all,~~~Tracy~~~

-- Tracy Jo Neff (tntneff@ifriendly.com), December 05, 2000.

Thanks Tracy! I will certainly try some fresh goat milk before I decide, but I gotta say that I'm biased in favor of goats, so I'm a little bit determined to like their milk. However, taste will win out whatever my prejudices.

You might say that it was simply a matter of trying it and deciding based on that, but it's not easy to find truly fresh goat milk, and without these posts I might never have gone beyond sampling the stuff I found in the grocery store. Now I will -absolutely- and if I end up raising one or more dairy goats for the rest of my life, you who have responded to this post can thank yourselves, because it might have just stopped right here. Is this a great forum or what?

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), December 06, 2000.

Most of the milk we got from our goats was good flavored -- when we got a bit of a goaty flavor, it was solved by buying and using some dairy cleaner. Sunday night we visited some people in Vermont to look at their Nubians, (we are buying two of them) and they gave us a taste of their milk -- absolutely the best milk I've ever tasted, better than any cow milk I've ever had -- and of the feta and soft goats cheeses the wife makes. Both were wonderful, with no hint of off flavors. I finally got yogurt figured out, now am determined to learn how to make cheeses!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 06, 2000.

I am always amused by the tendency of some people with strong passions about the comparative qualities of goats and cows milk to insist that those who's tongues disagree with theirs are somehow misdirected! :)

I agree that cheese is an incredibly creative art, and should be purchased from small, independent artisans. I have tasted hundreds of cheeses from all over the world, from goats, cows, sheep, water buffalo, and even horses. They almost all had interesting taste sensations to offer, and are fun to provide for cheesetasting parties, but I still personally dont care too much for goat cheese oveall. It has a certain unpleasant , although not horrible, aftertaste (in MY mouth, that is), that I have never become accustomed to, after 20 years of trying, and I eat almost anything. I guess I think this a very personal taste preference, and everyone has a perfectly wonderful right to their own. Thank goodness for our differences!

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), December 06, 2000.

re: aggressiveness of goats and whether or not they will hurt the children. I don't know anymore how many goats I've had or cared for. Hundreds. Out of all those goats, I've had only 2 with an agression problem. one was a horned buck who apparently was feeling his oats and wanted some entertainment. Usually he was nice, but every so often he would challenge me. Sent him to the sale barn. The other was a hornless doe, who was as gentle and sweet as you'd ask for. Due to a lot of moving and upheaval, I boarded her with some friends for about a year. One day I happened to be there, looked out the window, and the two little boys were picking on her. They were karate kicking her, holding out treats, and then when she went to eat them, snatching them away and hitting her with a stick. I had a talk with the parents, but don't know if it did any good or not. When I got her back, she was still the same friendly, loving doe I had known, except she HATED little boys! I had two little boys who'd never done anything to her, but she'd knock them down if they got anywhere near her. It took over a year of patient coaxing and lots of supervision and the boys giving her treats before she stopped attacking them. Even after she warmed up to my boys, when the kids who'd abused her came over, she remembered exactly who they were and she was out to get them! So I guess what I'm saying is that most goats are very friendly animals, not mean as they've been portrayed. But get goats that don't have horns, or have the horns removed by a vet, and never let any child torment a goat, because unlike other animals, they are VERY smart, and have very good memories. A goat will remember if you have ever mistreated it. Some will get timid and flighty, others get mean. When you buy a goat, take your kids with and see how the goat you're considering acts around kids.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 07, 2000.