Ok ,my in-laws are getting way to greedy for Christmas. My husbands family does the pull a name thing{you buy for whose name you pick} which is fine but the $ amount set by my M-in-law is 50$ per person. Well thats $100 for me and my husband ,we each pick a name.I got my s-in-law HS got her husband,we have the deed from their house dated 1810,I wanted to get it framed and give it as both their gifts,well m-in-law flat out told us we were being selfish and "that old thing is not worth anything"! she informed us gift lists were filled out by everyone and I could pick up a copy,I did. S-in-law wants dinner for 2 +babysitting ,her husband want Eddie Baur{sp} cloths or health club membership.At this point I feel like handing them cash and telling them where to go. What would you do?They asked for our list,I put anything handmade,HS put time w/ our kids. WHY do people act like this?!!I am sorry to post this if it does not fit the site.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 08, 2000

Answers

I sympathize, Renee. Sure does ruin the spirit of the season for you and your husband, doesn't it. You might tell your in-laws that--that they're ruining Christmas for you. Might be a nasty thing to say, but if it's true, then THEY can deal with it, after all they are the cause, not you.

I have a brother who is a doctor, his wife a RN. They make big money. My brother, at age 39, always asks for expensive things. What he gets from me every year is a cheesecake and a "Merry Christmas". Of course the cheesecake gets scarfed. Let 'em grumble.

-- Hannah Maria Holly (hannahholly@hotmail.com), December 08, 2000.

My inlaws did this last year too. My husband and I decided we were not going to draw names with them this year and informed my mother-in- law of this several months ago. I must admit she is the most reasonable of the bunch. It's the sisters who were pushing for the "big" gifts. So what happened this year? No one in the family is drawing names. We will get gifts for my husbands parents and that is all!!!

-- bwilliams (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), December 08, 2000.

Well Renee, I dont really have an answer for you. But I wholeheartedly agree that this is extravagant. I dont know your inlaws but it is too late to just bow out of this exchange? If so then maybe a couple of nice gift certificates and make it known that you would prefer not to participate in the future. I say this because they probably aren't going to change so unfortunately the action will have to be on your part. I dont envy you as I understand these things are kind of touchy especially with inlaws. Good luck! I understand your frustration.

-- Denise (jphammock@msn.com), December 08, 2000.

OK Renee its really getting to be time you moved up here with me away from all those nasty relatives !

-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), December 08, 2000.

Heres what I did a few years ago to set the stage for a lesser expense Christmas. I tore pieces of "shirt package cardboard" about the size of a postcard. Address on one side on the other this message "Money is tight, times are hard, please accept this as your Christmas Card. Merry Christmas". This gave everyone a laugh and later I sent the gifts I could afford. Everyone seemed alright with it except the ones that were shallow and superficial. Whatever happened to "Its the thought that counts"? As far as those "name drawings" Lynn and I bailed out of those, instead giving what we can afford or cards. IMO those lists and drawings take away from the sentiment of the season replacing it with conformistism and conveinence.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 08, 2000.

Easy enough- Dinner for two and babysitting? Cook a nice casserole, deliver it and take the kids to your house for the night. Health club or eddie Bauer? How about a nice axe or splitting maul. He can get his exercise in a natural way..

-- ray s. (mmoetc@yahoo.com), December 08, 2000.

We do a very different version of the draw. Everyone who wants to participate brings a gift, it can be as extravagant or homemade (which ironically are usually the most popular) or cheap-o. Then we draw numbers, number one opens a gift, number two has the option of opening another gift or stealing the gift of number one. Once a gift has been stollen 3 times it is considered dead and can not be stolen again. We played this game for years without the dead gift option, but our families are very!! competetive. Even with this rule we will forge alliances to get a gift we don't want and trade it with someone who did want it after the game is over. Makes for a great time! We also have great gifts as prizes, for catagores like the best Christmas carol, which is sang in front of the whole family laughing at you, the best christmas drawing, drawn from identical squiggels on paper, memmory games and the like, which children and adults can play, though the kids usually win!

Gift exchanges are great, but why on earth the folks would have a list of stuff they wanted is actaully pretty pathetic, in a family you should be able to know each other well enough to know what the person would like, and funny gifts sometimes make the best presents! My brother in law would kill for a pecan pie, perhaps you need to do like I do and have all your animals kidding during Christmas, that way you have family and friends at your house who you enjoy, and let the inlaws enjoy opening their la-ti-da stuff, with the sis and law :) I hated for my kids to even be around folks like that!

I love the idea of the framed deed, my folks have one also, and it is framed, the paper around the edge is burnt, as in buring the mortgage! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 08, 2000.

ray,Ilove it ,the looks would be priceless,I think I would need to include directions!{heating and wood chopping}

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 08, 2000.

Our family quit drawing names & giving gifts (other than to our immediate family members) a long time ago--We give as much as we can of our selves!!! We ask those who have children to do for their own!!!! If we have someone in the group who has to give to everyone--- my hubby & I ask that they give to a charity or help some one else in our name!!!! It kind of sets the mood for how we feel & how we feel Christmas should be!!!! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), December 08, 2000.

Renee,I think we have the same kin!!!!My out laws are very wealthy and they HATE HOW WE LIVE.They refuse to pick names,so this year they are getting sand art brownies and a neck pillow shaped like a peanut.I have three wonderful neices in university who love our dried apples and homemade candles.That deed would be the highlight of my christmas,what a wonderful idea and a great family heirloom.My folks pick names for anyone 15 and over,all the little ones get gifts but we try to do haomemade or yard sale or under 10-15 bucks.RAE(SP) that was priceless I say go for it I think they would get the message loud and clear!!!blessings teri

-- teri m (mrs_smurf2000@yahoo.ca), December 08, 2000.

Renee-how comes you arehaving to deal with this? It's your husbands family.He needs to be the big bad wolf( or I guess grinch).Give him there suggestions, and let him handle his folks.

We have an understanding I don't tell his family what to do,and he doesn't tell mine,unless one of us asks for assistance in dealing with a tough matter.That's as in help, not doing it for me.Maybe this is what is already being done and you are just getting ideas for him.If so then just ignore me.

Christmas should be joyful time spent with loved ones,not a harried conflict.We have same overconsumption problem in my family & his,we do not go home for the holidays,nor do we participate in the overexcesses of the season.We are much happier.Nuff said.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 08, 2000.

When my mother was living by herself in a mobile home she kept saying she didn't need anything for Chrismas. Well, one year from me she got a tool box with tools. Next it was new garden tools. Next it was a floppy sunhat and three work-quality blouses. She was tickled with each.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), December 08, 2000.

I don't know about everyone else but if you have had anything framed lately, it is so high! Even if you make it-- wood is out rageous and glass, and mat for it, It would be expensive! Frame the deed and give it to them! I think the idea of a one dish dinner and babysitting would be a grand gift!Put the uncooked/frozen lasagne in a large basket, include a homemade candle,a cd w/ their favorite oldies on it (you can buy them used in a lot of places around colleges and a babysitting coupon in it( be sure to let them know this could be used any time with a 24 hr. notice( or ever how long you need).Be creative about it. No one has to know how much or little you put in to each gift! Oh, by the way-- my daughter(26 year old) and a friend went to join a health club--they had a coupon out of the newspaper-started to talk to the guy in charge and ended up with membership for a year for $10.00!!! from $250.00 to $10.00. they just talked to the right guy told them what they needed and he said how much can you pay and they said ten dollars but didn't laugh and he said ok! It would never work for me but it is worth a try! Oh, they could tell anyone about it was the only thing he said they had to do!!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), December 08, 2000.

Something like this bothered me this afternoon. Yesterday, the kids in the clasroom that I work in were given old newspapers and a worksheet with Santa on it. They were supposed to cut out the things that they see in the newspaper that they would want for Christmas, and paste it on the sheet.

Now some were sensible. They asked for jeans or sshirts, or maybe a small stereo. But the vast majority had pictures of cell phones and expensive stereos and entertainment centers, and cars and trucks and a picture with a fistful of money. I hung them upp as the teacher directed, but I was mostly ashamed of them, and sad for the state of affairs for our kids. Greedy and selfish....

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), December 08, 2000.

A list of gift suggestions is just that. Seems like y'all are confusing it with a list of demands. Gifts are given, not demanded, and not required. You don't have to play that game. Give what you feel like giving, be it a thing, a service or good wishes. I think the framed deed is a wonderful gift, but it doesn't obviously have a great deal of meaning for them, so I wouldn't waste my time/energy/money.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), December 08, 2000.

Hey, Christmas is the celebration of Christ. Buy them a bible. I don't think they'll have anything negative to say. Merry Christmas!

-- hillbilly (internethillbilly@hotmail.com), December 08, 2000.

Renee from all the responses you have gotten I would say you aren't alone. Every year I tell my Mom I can't afford to buy gifts for anyone but the kids ....to me gifts at christmas are for little kids anyhow. She always insists on getting me something even when I tell her not to and then she is hurt when I just give her a card and a hug. Oh well who doesn't have aggravating relatives :o). My first thought on your delima is that this is something your mother in law came up with......why do you have to go along with it? It wasn't your idea after all. My Papa once told me that if somebody isn't nice to you or is bothering you the best thing you can do is be really nice to them....it'll make them feel bad. Well I have in mind something similar. Instead of worrying about the money part of the gift get or make them something that is very thoughtful. Kill them with kindness so to speak :o). You will still be getting them something nice but on your own terms. If after receiving your gift that takes more thought than cash they gripe or talk behind your back I'd inform everyone next year that you and hubby are giving each other a couple of days with each other and your kids and noone else as your presents to each other. I finally had to do this with my kin....a lot less stress. Nobody is happy that I no longer run to 4 different places for christmas but I no longer have my ulcer flairing up either!

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 08, 2000.

Renee, frame the deed, even if they don't have something like that on thier wish list I bet they will love it. It was the mother in law that didn't like it.

-- Tina (clia88@newmexico.com), December 09, 2000.

Oh, I do like Ray S's idea! I guess when people start getting that greedy and not only demanding gifts, but gifts of a certain type and value, it's time to stop giving gifts. That's what I would do with my children if they acted like that. Why should it be any different for "adults"? My parents are well off and for many years spent thousands of dollars on Christmas gifts (not demanding the same in return tho). I finally had to tell them STOP! They now send reasonable gifts and maybe some savings bonds, which are much appreciated by all. My family (dh, 16 yo daughter, 2 adult daughters, son-in-law, 1 grandkid) have drawn names for a number of years now. $ limit used to be $10, now is $15 (unanimous request). This means a gift can cost anything from $0 (home made) to no more than $15. We try to draw names on New Years so there is time to make gifts if that's what the giver choses to do. We also try to keep a gift list, not of "wants" especially, altho those are allowed, but basically a list of hobbies, interests, favorite colors etc. I collect chicken and goat stuff, reading interests are homesteading and Christian material; my 16 yo likes frogs and NSync cd's; son-in-law likes puzzles, fishing and camping; eldest daughter likes scrapbooking, favorite colors are green and burgundy, etc. This list just makes it easier for the person buying if they can't come up with any good ideas. So far we've not had much trouble finding neat gifts, and all the gifts have been fun and appreciated. I send a gift to each of my parents ($15 range) because they live out of state and can't really participate in the gift exchange. All 3 of my kids, & son-in-law, have repeatedly said if money gets too tight at some point, lets just dump the gifts altogether but spend some days together baking cookies, playing games, having meals together,etc. because that's the most fun part of the holidays. We do try to play down the gifts and remember what CHRISTmas is all about.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@webtv.net), December 09, 2000.

Oh boy Lenore-this happened to me too.It was for my dad's retirement,and I was never even told about it, just called up one day and told my portion of the bill.Well, I sent it alright, in $25 installments.Nick said I shouldn't have sent anything,but I was trying to keep some peace.

We've had rounds since over my three siblings planning things w/o letting us two youngest know.For me it's about them treating me like a human now ,instead of their wimpy little sister.They're just use to being bossy. Is that how it is for you? Keep setting them straight,in the nicest way possible of course,till they finally get the message.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 09, 2000.

Renee, pulling names out and $50.00 is what our family does too. I like to give a gift that keeps on giving. U.S. Saving bonds are great. You can buy these at the bank or online (call up savings bonds). Our local bank will open an IRA for $50.00. We got all social security numbers and birth dates from family the one year. This year my brother-in-law is going to have a Roth IRA opened, and my sister is going to have $50.00 added to the initial purchase from last year. There are also several companies that you can buy stock directly from with as little as $50.00 initially. I know this doesn't help with the greed, but since my family only wants to live for today, and not worry about tomorrow, saving bonds or IRAs work for us. I hope you and your family have a Wonderful Holiday Season.

Michael in North-West Pennsylvania

-- Michael W. Smith (KIRKLBBP@ENN.COM), December 10, 2000.

A gift is just that....a gift. There is no obligation to reciprocate.

My in-laws wanted to draw names several years ago. We declined and said, "Look, we want to gift you, but expect nothing in return." We always give things from the farm and occ. books, games, etc. The family actually relaxed after a few years and now we are gifted with homemade cookies, pottery or decorations.

My family gives when they can/want. Most often it has nothing to do with a holiday. I send out homemade care-packages for the winter holiday. I often get returned gifts at unexpected times...like the case of ginger ale I can't buy here when they visit.

Just remember a gift does not require any response beyond a thank you.

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), December 10, 2000.

Problem is solved{sorta} after a few nasty phone calls we have declind Christmas at the in-laws. I am sorry to say that this "problem " became more then we wanted to deal with at this time. Once again we are being labled the{freaks}that live like that.{{not sure what "that" means} I was called selfish,heartless,and uncareing and raising a "herd"of brates,who would rather hoard their money and make a cheap gift instead. Well a 5yr.old hoarding money is a new one to me!! Tis the season....

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 11, 2000.

Renee, I know this is hurtful to go through, but you will probably be much better off -- and certainly your children will -- if you can almost completely separate from these relatives. I have had to separate completely from my husband's family, and wish I'd had the sense to do it years ago before they'd had so much time to influence my children. You've got to put your children first. You are responsible for those little lives, and the kind of adults they turn out to be. If they are influenced by people whose lifestyle you don't like, your children may turn out like them (they may anyway, of course, but less chance of it if you can keep them apart). Patty's idea of your family moving away from those relatives is an excellent one! We did pretty well when we had the whole continent between us and my husband's family; moving to within ten miles of his parents was a mistake!! And I agree with whoever commented that Christmas presents ought to be mostly for the children anyway. Adults EXPECTING expensive presents even from people who can't afford it seems pretty crass and greedy to me.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 11, 2000.

Renee, congratulations on your choice to embark on creating your own "Family Traditions." It is my belief that if the old traditions don't work for you it is time to create the new. When your kids are little is an excellent time to do this.

This year, be creative. Try lots of new ideas or old wishful thinking ideas. Discard what does not work and keep the best to be your traditions! Your in-laws may not like it, but TOUGH! they will cope. Meanwhile your kids will love all the new ways of celebrating this holiday. Next year will be extra special as you celebrate with your OWN traditions. Every year, you will add good memories to your holiday traditions.

Can you tell I've been where you are at now?

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), December 11, 2000.

Renee, come on we like freaks that live that way .Are you ready to move yet ?

-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), December 11, 2000.

I refuse to give anyone a gift at any time of year that costs more than $20.00 unless I decide I want to. I've made a deal with my friends that we don't give each other any gifts for christmas period! It was uncomfortable the first year, but now they love not having to buy me anything. Imagine, no christmas shopping ever again. It is wonderful!

-- debra in ks (solid-dkn@msn.com), December 12, 2000.

For what its worth....

** Christmas Shopping **

Christmas is less than two weeks away, amid signs that the American public is getting tired of the relentless commercialism of the season -- 85% say Christmas is too commercialized ... the public also agrees overwhelmingly that there is too much emphasis on gifts and presents at Christmas ... indeed, 42% would enjoy Christmas more if there were no presents or gifts; 41% would enjoy it less ... and don't be shocked by stressed, glum faces at the mall -- almost six out of 10 Americans say they do not enjoy Christmas shopping ... For more information on holiday shopping: http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr001127c.asp

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), December 12, 2000.

I was just recently intorduced to this forum and am surprised to find so much about the things I am wanting to learn and people experiencing similar situations. We recently went through something similar. I was so proud of my 9 yr old son saying that he really didn't want too much this year. He had 3 things on his list and the most expensive was a sleeping bag for his cub scout camp outs (found one at a pawn shop still in the original packaging with all the tags for 1/3 of it's value). He has so many pressuring him for ideas of what to get him that he finally said that $5 to put in his college fund would be great. He helped me a bit with ideas for gifts and even helped me decide what charity we would use the unspent money on (gift boxes of necesities for a local nursing home). I was so happy that at only 9 he seems to understand much of what I have tried to teach him. The other two gifts that my son asked for were purchased by my in laws and my grandparents (although my in laws did also get him some garage sale books). My mom was upset that there wasn't anything left for her to get him. I suggested a shirt and new gloves (this kid even likes getting clothes) and still she felt that it wasn't enough. I discouraged her from doing anything else since she is on a limited budget (disability), but she went and bought him a gift certificate to a store that I hate to go into. I tried explaining that I didn't want to teach my son that consuming is the thing to do this time of year and I didn't approve of such a gift. I had been telling her this for sometime and she still went against my wishes. As a result my family has decided that I am greedy and have ruined the holiday for everyone. They even threw in some choice comments about my in laws who happen to share my and my husband's values on consumerism and buy most gifts at garage sales (which honestly have been some of the best gifts I have ever recieved for Christmas). My in law's frugal ways have allowed them to retire early and they now spend their time tutoring kids, chaperoning school activities, secretly paying for lunches for kids that can not even afford the reduced prices, participating in Habitat for Humanity and will even be spending their holidays doing mission work in Mexico. Because I want to grow up and be like them, they are a bad influence on me and my son according to my family. I personally think that one should do what they think is best for them. I applaude you in your decision to forgo such a mess. Next year we will be forgoing the name drawing as well and that will give us an extra $40 to spend on charity.

-- Melia (melia@home.com), December 13, 2000.

Renee, I took a trip to the past when reading your post. My former inlaws used to ask what my children wanted for Christmas, and then bought EVERYTHING they wanted, so there was never anything left for Santa to get. The worse thing was, they would come and give them the gifts the day before Christmas. Eventually, I just let them get the gifts, and told the kids Santa had left a note for Grandma and asked her to help out and get some things as he was too tired. Worked for a while, then we left and they wanted nothing more to do with me or the kids. Melia: I asked my nine year old granddaughter what she would do with a gift certificate like the one your mother is getting your son, and she said "I would take it and buy things for poor children with it". Maybe you son will do the same, and you can tell your mother how proud you are of him for following your ways, and thank her for helping him make that possible. Sometimes you can "nice" someone into changing their ways! Jan

-- Jan in Colorado (Janice12@aol.com), December 13, 2000.

Reminds me of my letter I had sent out one year before Christmas. Stating what the local news was reporting as good sales,poor sales and on sale. Reporting some business would not make it due to so much discounting. I tried to explain to my grown children this was not what Christmas was all about. So, we gave each of the grandkids a gov.bond and each grown child a home cook meal, turkey and all the stuffings. Did not go over well. The adults took the gov.bonds(after 60days)and bought toys. I did not ask for themselfs or the grandkids. So, now we send a Kroger gift card, which can only be used as a credit toward their food bill. Kroger is smarter than I thought. Final thought(s). The "world" is not a countrysider.

I saw your coments Patty and reminded me that at one time you were having some bad headaches. How are they. Mind are still tuffies.

PJ

-- Peggy J. (pangusg@netscape.net), December 14, 2000.

Sorry to cut in Renee, thanks for asking Peggy .They haven't been to bad lately but stress is building .The baby is 17 months and into everything .I have a snow tubing party for my son on Friday {10 boys and my girls } Hubbies xmas party Sunday ,we are putting in a furnace,I ditched my truck and am fighting with the insurance company.The list goes on .So far so good for now.On the good side the house is warm and there is food on the table .

-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), December 14, 2000.

Debra, we, too, don't do any Christmas shopping and it's wonderful! The first year everyone complained but now they totally accept it and life goes on and the holiday season is much more enjoyable. I hate shopping for anything, especially the long lines and traffic this time of year and they have been totally avoided. Who needs more stress? We lost no friends but planted a seed that hopefully will grow further as we have received many positive comments. It CAN be done, but someone has to take the scary first step.

-- Sandy Davis (smd2@netzero.net), December 15, 2000.