Vicki, I brought two Nubian does home yesterday, one is milking, the other dry (these are 1 1/2 year-olds). They are shy of being handled, and I think had never been out of their home before, as the people I got them from don't show. They were vet checked, are healthy, and the sellers appeared to take very good care of all their animals. My concern is that they both appear to be shivering this morning, I don't think they are drinking water (I gave them warm water), and I'm not sure they are eating hay. At least not when I can see them. I put them both on the milking stand last night (it's a double, as the girls used to help me with milking) and gave the dry one her grain while I milked the other one. The dry one did eat her grain all up, but the milker hardly touched hers. I'm concerned that they will go down before they recover from the stress of being moved if I can't get them to eat or drink. I would dry the milker off rather than lose her, if you think that would help. Any suggestions? You could e-mail me directly. Thank you. Kathleen

-- Kathleen Sanderson in NH (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 22, 2000

Answers

Hi Kathleen,

You could try going to http://www.goatworld.com and to their 911ER link. There are several knowledgable folks there. I'll try to help here until Vickie can answer you. can you get any goat stress formual, Immungo-G or ID-1? I'd give her some of that as per label. And do you have any Vit B handy? I'd give her some of that too as it may help perk her appitite. also try some molasses, about 1/4 cup in her water or some goat adie if you have that. its 5 squirts of goat aide for a adult goat. Hope this helps.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 22, 2000.

Hi Kathleen. Congrats on the goats. They have suffered a major stress--taken from home, new food, new people, new everything but my goats were shivering this morning too as it was zero not including wind chill. All but a few were born on this farm and the rest have been here nearly four years.

Go ahead with Bernice's suggestions too but definitely get water, hay and salt/trace mineral into them. Ruminants had the first central heating systems getting most of their body heat from the fermentation of fibrous feeds rather than their own metabolic activity. Also consider that a goat has a large surface area relative to its mass unlike the cow but lacks the wooly coat of a sheep so you've got to keep that internal furnace going. Feeding large amounts of grain or molasses without a good hay can cause the rumen to shut down when the rumen bacteria have too much simple carbohydrates to deal with, overpopulate, die and release toxins. They can also develop an acidic condition in the rumen that can lead to bloat and a just plain sour stomach. If you suspect their rumens aren't acting right, dose them with some live culture yogurt or some Probios to reinnoculate the rumen and kick start that again.

Be sure they are well bedded and their quarters are as draft free as possible. Eleven years ago we had 3 weeks of temps below zero with nighttime lows of -28o and wind chills -50 to -60. No fun at all (actually worse than current conditions) but the goats I had then, the mothers and grandmothers of the current bunch, did just fine with what I've recommended to you. Good luck and merry Christmas.

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), December 22, 2000.

I would treat for shock. The first thing I would do is get a goat coat on them. You can stitch one up if necessary on the sewing machine. I would also see if you can get a little cayenne pepper or chili powder into them. It doesn't take much, but it can really help with shocky behavior. Also make sure they have plenty of straw bedding and check for drafts. I wouldn't hesitate to give an antibiotic if none of these measures works. Drying the doe off at this point is probably not a good idea, as she could get mastitis if not milked. I would definitely pick one person to handle her, and visit alone to do the milking. Keep them in a smaller pen until they acclimate. I know this question wasn't forme, but I thought I'd try to help until you can reach Vicki. My goats also did real well when under stress with a dose of golden seal. They would lick it right out of my hand> I have save more than one doe with it, when they bloated themselves on grain. I would also reduce the grain ration, as stress can sometimes cause bloat with feed change or even with out feed change.

Little bit Farm

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), December 22, 2000.

Got back with Kathleen privately but just for information, I always recommend sweatshirts with the sleeves cut off on new stock, so they aren't using their calories to stay warm. Moving to a new farm is very stressfull and Kathleen did a good job of buying two, and because of this stress they immediatly need to be wormed. Probios is an excellent product to keep lots of beneficial bacteria in their rumen, from a change of feed and hay, Kathleen also did a great job of duplicating the grain ration the goats were used to. Keeping the atmosphere around the new goats calm is important and with these two so stressed, isn't a time for everyone to come and visit the new goats. Kathleen is going to continue milking the doe, this isn't the time to dry her up. She is also going to revaccinate the does, her idea of warm water is a great one! I really wish the ID-1 would go more mainstream, I know that Goatworld.com is also now selling it. This immune boosting colostrum based miricle in a bottle is getting some really great press, and is also very inexpensive to use. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 22, 2000.

Sounds like your on the Job, Vicki. I had a feeling that you might be taking her up on her offer to e-mail her privately, but as you know it is better to be safe than sorry. With animals things can get pretty bad pretty fast. I hope I didn't step on your toes.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), December 22, 2000.

P.S. I really like the sweatshirt idea. Going to have to try that.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), December 22, 2000.

Geeze no! Everyone needs to post to a problem like this, I just happen to be home today, she had also sent it privately and so talked back and forth with her privately. You absolutly never know in anything Goat, what is going on, and just in posting can come up with a suggestion that no one has thought of, we have all seen this happen before!

My new baby monitor for the barn is driving me insane! It is so powerful that I can hear every grunt and groan, I have been outside 3 times this last hour, with my towels in tow, only to find my big fat girls looking up at me as to say "What's up Mom"? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 22, 2000.

Oh Vicki all this goat talk is giving me goat withdrawals. I sure do miss mine. I constantly have to keep my eyes on the prize, which is finally living on a homestead that is mine and not rented. I sure do miss my babies. I wish I was with you and your girls. I miss catching.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), December 22, 2000.

I have been wondering all day about these goats!!! I wanted to respond but I didn't really know what the whole story was. Like how far were they shipped etc. I had one doe that had been born here and was here for 6 years before I sold her. She got to the new farm and wouldn't eat or drink and almost died until I drove up there with some of our feed (we had a custom blend) and took some time with her. Nubians are the most tempermental girls. I ended up buying her back and she will die here.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 22, 2000.

Gee, a goat question and I'm a lowly sheep person. But,we use sleeves cut from wool sweaters for our new lambs. Why not put the whole sweater on a goat. A WOOL one. They would keep the warmth in even when damp.

-- kate henderson (kate@sheepyvalley.com), December 22, 2000.

Kathleen: I'm no goat expert but when we got our two Nubian does this April it was a similar situation. One in particular was shivering whenever we'd enter the barn. I snuck up on the barn one day tho and peeked in and she wasn't shivering but started when I entered the barn. It just took a little time, gentleness and some patience and they've come around very nicely. Now the one who was shivering the most is the jealous one. Shoves the other one out of the way when she's getting the petting and back scratching.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), December 22, 2000.

We put sweatshirts on our Nubians (learned that trick on this forum, thanks!) because we can wash them. I thought about wool sweaters but the thick sweatshirts are easier to wash (still smell a bit goaty, though.)And the guys looks so "sporty" in them!

I loved the baby monitor comment. I have ours next to the bed, and during lambing, set the alarm every couple of hours to listen for sounds. I made many midnight trips out to the barn to get similar looks from the ewes!! That thing is so powerful that we can hear owls hooting in the woods way down the hill. But I sure like having it.

Good luck with the goats.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 23, 2000.

While I have not used the following stress remedy for goats, I have had success using it with humans, dogs, and plants (yes, plants!). If you are open to complementary therapies, you might want to consider giving them Bach Rescue Remedy. This remedy is made up of four or five different flowers, prepared homeopathically (in theory) and preserved in a base of brandy. It is designed to address stress and "shock." You can purchase it in a health food store (or easily order it). You place three drops in their clean water and allow them to drink it throughout the day (and hopefully they will drink). It is perfectly non-toxic and there are no adverse reactions associated with it at all.

-- Amy (acook@in4web.com), December 23, 2000.

Just want to let you all know that it looks like the goats are going to be fine -- thanks so much for all your help!! (I did address the original question to Vicki, as I knew she had a lot of experience with moving stock, but was happy to see so many responses from other people.) Now I've got to go milk and then head for work. Hope you all are having a good Christmas!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 25, 2000.