We have a doe in heat today-we had thought she had been bred, (a buckling we had got into the pen, and she did not come back in.) We would like to have the milk-is it okay to go ahead and have her rebred?

She is almost a year-at 90 pounds, and in great shape otherwise-a Saanen-Alpine cross, and this will be her first freshening. I have understood that sometimes they will be pregnant but misscarry or reabsorb the fetal tissue. Is it safe to assume this is what happened?

Thanks for any advice, Sarah

-- Sarah (heartsongacres@juno.com), December 27, 2000

Answers

I would sooner believe that she never got bred. I have had young ones not come into a really good heat until now so I would just breed her. The buckling can probably do the job now. This would be the right weight to breed, according to the books. I don't like them to freshen before 15 months old, so it sounds like she would make my critera, and I have never had a problem. GL diane in michigan

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 27, 2000.

I would agree with Dianne, and the buckling though could go through all the motions, probably was shooting blanks, if she will stand for the buck than let him breed her again. We do have this odd, very pregnant standing at the fence hollaring as if in heat, but if you do take them to the buck they will not stand for him. Your analogy that she absorbed the fetus could also be right, especially given her size. I would like to see more weight on a nearly year old Alpine or Saanen, let alone the hybrid vigor of a cross. Put her through your normal pre-breeding routine of worming, hoof trimming etc. whatever it is that you do to get them in excellent shape before breeding. This is another reason why I think that newer folks in goats should pen breed, keep the buck in the pen with the does, until you have a confirmed pregnancy, like you have a licked dried off kid nursing mom kind of confirmed pregnancy :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 27, 2000.

How much weight would you like to see her at? Her sister has always been much bigger than her-her sister is measuring at 102 pounds. When I got them, they wre kinda skinny I thought-but I have been careful not to overfeed them to make them fat. They both have grown lots when we got them (at 8 months old)

Mary her sister was at 75 lbs when we got them and ann at 65. they have alwasy been about 10 pouns apart-and Mary is taller. The previous owner said that Mary took mor after her mom and Ann took after her dad, though they are both white.

anyway, my own preference is for Ann-her conformation is better in my opinion. she weighs in at 92 pounds, has been wormed and hooves trimmed.

I think we will go ahead and see if we can get her to the buck and see what happens.

One more question: I have my choice of bucks-one who is very dairy in confirmation-91 I think is the number he scored on one of the evaluations-I forget which one, but someone here probably knows. That buck is just grand-and his daughters have excellent udders and attachemnts, he also throws twins often. My concern is he is large.

there is another one who is less experienced and often does bred to him have twins and produce abundantly-but he is smaller and his score is lower in the same evaluation. He also has a reat temperment. the large buckis moe standoffish. Not mean-but he knows he is the big kahuna on the block, and acts sort snobby.

So which one would you use-I had always thought that twinning was determined more by the mom, while sex by the dad...I can't remember who throws more daughters.

Thanks again, Sarah

-- Sarah (heartsongacres@juno.com), December 27, 2000.

Sarah, when did she last come into heat? Did you write it down on your calendar? If it was about three weeks ago, she may have been bred and just hasn't fully realized it yet. Or, perhaps she was inheat, but the buck didn't get a chance to breed her( just coming in, just going out, sometimes they are not as receptive to the buck). Either way, it will not hurt her to rebreed her. Just write BOTH dates down on the calendar, and the dates she would kid for each breeding. Then keep an eye open for her around the time for the first breeding to be due, if she doesn't kid, wait for the second date. I have does come into heat after they are pregnant sometimes. When will she be a year old? Did you weigh her on a scale or with a weigh tape? My young does(8-9 mos old now), weigh about 90-100 lbs. I have alpines. I have had Alpine Saanen crosses that after freshening, weighed only 60 lbs! Make sure and feed her well(grain, good hay) while she is pregnant, so she will keep growing. My does keep growing until they are 3-4 years old.

About which buck to breed her to, the doe determines how many kids will be born. If she has the genes for multiple births (your doe is a twin), and is in fairly good shape when she's bred, she will ovulate with two or more eggs. For a yearling, she'll probably have 1 or two kids. The buck sends millions of sperm into the doe, they can only fertilize as many eggs as are there. So it's not his fault if she has a single kid. yes, the sex is determined by the buck, also by the ph of the doe's vagina and uterus, and the time of breeding. In choosing the buck, I'd stand back and take a good hard look at the doe and determine what her greatest fault or weakness is, and then choose a buck that is very strong in that area. If she is hocky, pick a buck who has good rear leg set. If she has a narrow body, pick a good, wide,deep buck. You don't need to worry about the buck being large, the kids will be normal size most of the time. If all other factors are equal, breed her to the buck that will give better production, as her OWN production will be favorably influenced by that, not to mention the kids will produce better. Sorry to run on so long!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 27, 2000.

Rebekah,

thanks for the help-the time we figured she was bred was about 7 weeks ago-I was looking for her to come into heat early December-and she did not-figured she was pg-and now she is definitely in heat-the timing is pretty close to her skipping a cycle. Or one that got pg- but it didn't take.

I used a tape on her-a measureing tape and a conversion chart. She looks good-I am comfortable with having her bred-I do feed them well and they get good excercise-and we have had no problems.(yet-I know it *will* happen sometime. )

She will be a year in February. She would kid in late May which would put her at 15 months.

Thanks for the help.

Sarah

-- Sarah (heartsongacres@juno.com), December 27, 2000.

Are my goats giants?? I have two doelings born April 8, and one weighs 108 and the other weighs 111. They are not fat. I haven't bred them because they are CAE+ and thought it best for their long term health to skip the first heat...what do you guys think? They are Alp Togg cross. Sorry to throw the thread off track, but I didn't think the question warranted another thread. Thanks!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 27, 2000.

An average rule of thumb for weight is 10 pounds per month plus their birth weight so the doe should be weighing 100 pounds plus the 8 or so pounds she was at her birth. Yearling does are about 135 pounds. Crosses are usually much bigger than this and really do need to be bred at 11, 12 months old or they will indeed be to fat as older yearlings. I don't breed my does the first year, most of my does kid right before or shortly after their 2nd birthday. But then my end product is a big, mature, milker for the show ring. If you are just breeding for house milk then obviously your management would be different.

Given the information that you have given me on the bucks, I of course would choose the buck with the highest appraisal score. In my breedings I couldn't care less what a bucks appraisal score is, I am much more concerened with what his mom, granddam, greatgranddam, sisters, and daughters apprasied at, then him. A 91 appraisal on a buck is huge, my criteria for bucks or doe kids that I purchase are at least 89 or 90's and then on multiple generations. I also am a bloodline breeder, I love the look of the big old Nubian gals, so I bred and line breed on Price of the Field influenced stock.

Bernice, on your CAE+ stock, you will just need to breed them and take your chances that as 2 year olds the CAE doesn't manifest itself in either a hard udder with no milk (make sure and have colostrum frozen and a milk supply in case this happens) or swollen knees towards the end of their pregnancy. I for sure would be using one of the immune boosting products like ID-1 (goatworld.com now sells it) also Bernice has used the one in Hoeggers, ask her about this one. Good luck with your goats! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 27, 2000.

Heart Song Acres. Boy is that beautiful! Sorry don't know about goats but I do like your homestead name.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), December 27, 2000.

SORRY!!! I meant Doreen on your CAE stock and ask Bernice for the information!! Apology Apology!! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 27, 2000.