I have a question for all the goat owners out there. I have owned Pygmies for a long time and am in the process of selling the last two bucks I have. I have wanted to switch to milk goats, but after a very unsatisfactory experience with a Nubian nanny, can't make up my mind as to which breed would be best for us. I don't drink milk, but love cheese and butter. However, the son and sweetie love milk! I was leaning towards toggs, but they are kinda rare in our area. we are in the south and it gets HOT here! Without opening up a can of worms, (I know everyone has their favorite), can some of you give me some advice on which breed of goat you would recommend? BTW - the bad experience with the Nubian was: this girl could jump ANYTHING, and was constantly getting out. My pygmies never jump and are not as vocal. We are using cattle panels (welded wire five feet high) for fencing and have a large area. I only want a couple of does to start with. Any advice?

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 01, 2001

Answers

Cindy, in my experience any of the full-sized breeds can jump anything. Some are more inclined to be jumpers than others, but breed has got little or nothing to do with it. I would suggest adding a strand or two of hot wire above your cattle panels, and possibly a strand inside the cattle panels with off-set insulators. Otherwise, your cattle panels are probably the best possible fence for goats (other than eight foot high chain link, with a roof!!!! ). As for finding goats in your area, some breeders are on-line. And the county extension agent will be able to steer you to the 4-H clubs in the area. I decided on Nubians when I started looking for goats again, and after tasting their milk, I'm not sorry!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), January 01, 2001.

Hi Cindy,

I too live in the south, at the moment anyways, may be relocating to NN soon. anyways... we raise srtictly Alpines. Now as you mentioned.... everyone has their favorites. I tend to adore and LOVE these obnxious little darlings with attitudes. No... seriously, Alpines are the nicest girls around and will let you know it too. I would suggest getting as much information as you can, and I know that you'll get a lot of good replies here. then make a decision based on that. If its cream you are desiring then the Nubians are the breed to think about, Toggs also have a good amount i have been told. but in my humble opinion its a matter of shopping and getting a good healthy goat and from someone who is trustworthy. Getting a good healthy goat that has been taken good care of and is a decent milker, etc will pay in the long run. Good Luck and hope this helps. I began yrs ago with Nubians and when we moved here to VA sold them. Then we fell in love with alpines.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), January 01, 2001.

Cindy, where in the south do you live? I have Toggs and with the exception of a crazy wether they aren't that difficult to fence. He is about 260# and cattle panel keeps him in with no problem. He did manage to push through one night but that's the first time in 3 1/2 years!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 01, 2001.

Hi Cindy: I agree with Kathleen, I went for the butterfat content and the sweet Jersy-like milk of the Nubians. But....it sounds like you don't care for the vocal aspect of the Nubians which I personally love. They are very outspoken (or mouthy however you want to describe it) and if you don't like that, I doubt if you would enjoy the Nubians. IMHO

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 01, 2001.

I am in Georgia close to the Alabama border. Thanks for your kind responses, I know that some breeds of goats have distinctions for giving more milk than others and some are more vocal than others. I am not familiar with the milk goat breeds having only had pet pygmies and the one nubian, I am a newbie to milkers. All your responses are appreciated since I don't know a soul here in my part of the state that has milk goats. Guess I might have to travel a ways to get a nice goat that has been managed properly.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 01, 2001.

Cindy, you need to find a reputable breeder in your area first. Then visit the farm, get to know the goats, and purchase yourself a bottle fed and raised milker. This way you will get to know her temperment, be able to milk her and taste her milk before you purchase her. This is actually a great time of year to be purchasing since breeders will now be selling milkers that didn't come into the show udder they were hoping and won't fit into the show string.

The breed of goat makes very little difference, their are timid and shy Nubians along with the witches! Alpines are notorious for being ugly to other goats, Toggs have some bloodlines with about non- drinkable milk, Saanen's unless pampered simply don't do well in the south, and Oberhasli's are hard to come by. Even at that, my girl friend has some Togg/Nubians that I would kill for, and a friend of mine in north Texas has Saanen's to die for! I always recommend for the true homestead dairy goat owner LaMancha's and LaMancha crosses. They are on a whole a smaller animal, milk more than most of the breeds, for a much longer lactation, are easy on the ears :) as in they make very little noise, and some will have as high butterfat as Nubians. And with their herd books still open you can easily breed even grade LaMancha's up to purebred.

You may also want to get a breed that is popular in your area, so that bucks are eaiser to buy, would do me no good to get oberhasli's with none in my are, though really now with it costing just 135$ for airfare, you certainly can choose any breed you want, and ship in a buckling every couple of years.

I of course raise Nubians, not only because I like the breed but because for me they are the most profitable. If I could make a profit with LaMancha's I would continue to breed them, they were invaluable to me when I sold milk, but now just on their own, it is to hard to make a profit, mostly because of that ear thing, either folks love them or hate them (and you don't milk the ears :) Nubians and LaMancha's tollerate the heat really well, but you really have to know your bloodlines in Nubians to get does with long lactations. Be very leary of herds who don't milk the whole year. Purchasing yourself that 2 or 3 year old that has been taught that she only needs to milk for 3 or 4 months, will be a pain to you when you expect her to milk for 10 months. Barn records or DHIR records, will quickly show you this, or even folks who show, you have to keep them milking to show them.

I also of course think it is best to buy registered stock, and to continue to breed registered stock. With paperwork you also have a much better chance of finding a Nubian without Boer influence. It makes your animals more profitable, and with registered stock, you usually, not always, find folks who are a little more knowledgeable about genetics and disease. Buying CAE- animals that are bottle raised on heat treated colostrum and pasturised milk is of course a must.

There are some excellent LaMancha's freshening at my girl friends house January. So if Houston isn't to far away drop me a line. Don't just settle for any goat, there are lots of nice animals out there, and lots of folks who don't run stock through the auction barns. Put a want ad up at Goatads at Egroup.com, and over at Goatworld.com, if you do decide what breed you want you could go over to egroups.com and pick the breed group and ask over their, like Nubian Talk or LaMancha Talk etc.

Visiting the farm, and getting to know the stock is probably the most important thing, you really can't hide the fact that a doe is a jumper. Overall herd health is the most important thing to look for. Makes little difference if the animal you are purchasing is healthy looking, if their is abscesses, swollen knees and diarrhea on the farm. Remember that doe is going to look like the adult stock on the place. Feel of udders for chronic mastitis, udders whether dry of in milk should feel soft and pliable. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 01, 2001.

Hi Cindy,

I have to agree with you - I don't like the constant chatter of the Nubian. I have Toggs and a Togg/Alpine cross. They are fine. Usually a jumper will quit after they get heavier (pregnant the first time), but the hot wire will put an end to escapes. I have heard that Saanens and Lamanchas are the gentlest. Some people don't care for the different look of the "earless" Lamanchas though. I think it's important to check into what breeds are locally available if you don't plan to keep a buck and want to have a pure line. Hope this helps. God bless!

-- Nancy in CA (sonflower35@icqmail.com), January 01, 2001.

Cindy - If you want quanity - get Saanans. My understanding is that they are the Holsteins of goats. And that goes for the butterfat as well as the amount they produce. My experience with the Saanans is that they are quiet and non-jumpers. The milk is delicious. My Togg had some of that "non-drinkable" milk and my Nubians were very vocal. But I am in Ohio and even tho we get hot summers and the goats do fine, I don't know how they would fare in the South.

-- Dianne (willow@config.com), January 01, 2001.

What would you all recommend for a homesteader that wants some milk for drinking, some butter and cheese, and lots of good quality wool? There's just the two of us, plus any family who might want a taste or two, so quantity of milk isn't that big of a deal. However, I am really interested in soft, warm wool and good temperment (I'm not exactly Xena, here, y'know!) Suggestions? They would be housed in the SE MO area.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 01, 2001.

I love my saanens ! I hated goats before them .

-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), January 01, 2001.

I have Nubians and would,nt change now BUT if I were starting over I would get Oberhasli for the simple reason that they are becoming an endangered breed.There are still some to be had but they are getting harder to find each year.Still some breeders on the west coast and a few in the north but very rare here in the south. Nubians are not worse jumpers than other breeds but they are noisy.

-- JT in nw Fl (gone2seed@hotmail.com), January 01, 2001.

To keep does from jumping, consider running an electric wire along the perimeter of the top of the fence. Goats do not like to get shocked!

About the breeds, I have alpines. I have heard that they can be aggressive and nasty, but mine generally get along pretty well, unless a new goat is added. They have never been nasty to me, with the exception of a horned buck. Do not buy horned goats! My alpines are intelligent, productive, hardy, and come in a variety of colors and patterns. I like the Saanen personality,(though I've met a nasty one) but I get tired of looking at nothing but white all winter long as it is. Saanens will give a lot of milk, but not high in butterfat. I've not had a lot of experience in Toggs. I do know that they are not as popular as the other breeds and their numbers are fewer. Nubians have very good milk, as a breed, but some people don't like them. It seems that people are drawn to the different breeds according to their personalities. You might not be a Nubian person. Have you considered thee la Mancha? Their ears will take a day or two of getting used to, but they have wonderful dispostions, are very quiet, and have good butterfat content in their milk. They also come in a variety of colors! I don't mind the little ears. After all, they are not so different from our own!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 02, 2001.

Hi Cindy: Have you ever thought about Kinders? They are a fairly new breed that are dual purpose (milk/meat). They originate from a Pygmy/Nubian cross. Smaller than Nubians but very hardy and some lines are great milkers. Very high butterfat also. The mother and grandmother of our buck have the following numbers for this year. Mom will finish at about 2200# of milk with 124+ # of butterfat. His grandmother will finish at about 2480# of milk with about 137# of butterfat. We have five and they are the most easy going goats we have (we also have Nubian, Alpines, and Nigerian Dwarf). Great personalities too!

-- Trisha (tank@linkup.net), January 02, 2001.

Oh, I forgot to add... ours are easily contained with cattle panels. They don't push on the fences and I've never seen any of the Kinders try to jump/climb them over them. They don't seem to mind being contained at all. Our ND will find every hole they can fit through and the Alpines watch for us to leave the gate open.

-- Trisha (tank@linkup.net), January 02, 2001.

Finally had time to sit down and go through all the wonderful responses given here. Vicky was kind enough to email me some email addresses of breeders here in my area and I am going to start contacting them to find out what is available and when we can go look at their stock. I know that I will probably "shop" awhile to find a couple of does that I click with, but will gain a bunch of experience in the meantime. I will let y'all know how I do and what I end up bringing home. Of course I had better not go during weaning time or I might bring home more than I planned as babies are sooo cute! :>) Many thanks to all of you, once again the Countrysiders come through!

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 02, 2001.

Soni, if you are primarily interested in wool and temperament, could I suggest sheep?!? LOL!!! Actually, some sheep can be milked, and if they are handled regularly, can be as friendly as a goat, so it's worth thinking about. Better than Angora goats, which so far as I know, only give enough milk for their own babies, and are a little on the shy and flighty side. But seriously, most goats (other than angoras and cashmeres) are good for milk, meat, and hides, but not too useful for fiber.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), January 04, 2001.