Greetings: According to Gods word all have sinned all means all. Blessed is the womb that bore you Jesus replied" Blessed is he who hears the word of God and does it" Are you reading Gods word if not then you follow teachings of demons wich say that Mary never sinned. She needed Jesus just like everyone else. Jesus saves

-- AJR (Jesusislife@christian.com), January 16, 2001

Answers

Dear brother Alex-- Why do you not hear the Word of God, then?

The Catholic Church is where Jesus lives. Recall for a moment, Holy Scripture tells you the Pharisees accused Jesus Our Saviour of ''having a demon.'' They argued that He cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub. He is the Son of God, and the Head of His Church. He is the Vine, and Catholics are the branches, in the Church. All these Scriptural truths escape you. You think Jesus has a demon.

Mary is the Mother of Our Holy Redeemer. Let me remind you; anything insulting you now say about her, shall be exposed at His Judgment Seat, on the last day. He will ask, why were you the enemy of my beloved Mother? Why did you hurt Me in that cruel way?

The Blessed Virgin Mary was conceived in the womb of her mother absolutely innocent of sin. Not even Original sin, from Adam's fall, was allowed to touch her soul. This was a grace allowed her only because God intended her to become the mother of His Divine Son, Jesus.

No stain of the slightest sin, or evil, would ever come in contact with Jesus, by being born of a sinner. That would have been sacreligious, because God cannot even look at sin. Jesus Himself is Infinitely Holy!

His mother, then-- is not sinless of her own merit-- She was preserved from the stain of sin ONLY to keep it away; from touching her Son, the Jesus you claim to know and serve. But you, Sir-- are in darkness and don't know it.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 16, 2001.

It may just be me, but I smell a rat. I am starting to get the opinion that Cathy, Steven, Alex, Susan, David, Matt, Jon, Sharon, and John J. and whoever, are pulling our collective Catholic "chains". What is this word "gosspil" all about? I am missing something here? For some who are so devout and filled with the "Spirit" you would think their faith has taught them how to spell some of these words that they must have been exposed to over and over again. Is this some kind of joke or put-on? Is it some kind of literary device? Could these individuals be a group of immature teenagers having fun at the expense of our faith by wasting our time through incoherent ramblings, illogical arguments and "cut & paste" interpretations of Scripture? I think we've been had! Can anyone see the egg on my face? Ed

-- Ed Lauzon (grader@accglobal.net), January 17, 2001.

Hi, Ed!
You have it right about bad spelling. I wouldn't criticize that, though. Many Catholics are atrocious spellers. This not a spelling bee. This is a Catholic forum, with informed members and a positive message for any who wish to log on.

Whenever the holy Cure of Ars was attacked by the devil (He saw Satan frequently, and was not afraid of him), he would get up full of enthusiasm the day after. To him the special efforts Satan was making to rattle him were a good sign.

He said, ''I know today I'm catching a BIG fish!'' The saintly Cure expected to make a new convert, a ''Big Fish''; in the days following an attack of the devil. He was happy to accomodate Satan's great fury; because he would be rewarded by Our Lord, bringing a lost soul back to Him! That is what I hope in the course of these discussions. That one, two, maybe a few more strangers out there in cyber-space are about to wander in here, and learn about the True Faith, through our efforts. In fact, I'm pretty sure. God in the last few days has provided you and me, and some other good Catholics on forum, with FOILS too good to be true! If you can't handle opponents of the Church like Alex, and Israel and Cathy-- how are you going to convince strong ones? God is generous to us here, Ed. Let's thank Him for the good work He helps us to do. It isn't going for nothing, believe me! Ciao, and God keep you!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 17, 2001.

Good Point AJR.. and as i have profoundly said before..

What Makes Mary so holy? Was she not born in sin, shaped in Inquitiy, come into this world speaking lies, just as you and i were?

Did not she have to recieve the Holy Spirit in her life, with the rest of the 120 in the upper room, just like everyone else?

Mary Left Jesus at the Pentecostal feast. Mary went back up with Joseph three days looking for Him. She'd been looking for Him, couldn't find. She found Him. What did she find? She found Him in the temple discussing the Word of God with the priests. And right in the front of those priests, those dignified, Mary let the curtain drop. She did exactly the thing she should not have done. And you call her God the mother of God? A mother ought to have more wisdom than her son. And she said, "Your father and I have sought You with tears for day and night. Your father and I..." Claiming that the birth wasn't supernatural, that Joseph was the father of Jesus. She denied the supernatural birth.

I respect Mary as the one that gave birth to Jesus, but Remember, God Created the Egg and Sperm in her womb, ..Mary only gave Birth, she was the carrier of Jesus, ... Cause if it was marys egg that was mixed into the seed that God sowed, then u will have God committing adultery with mary!!! and that would be wrong!! Mary only gave Birth to Christ, she had nothing to do with Creating his Body inside of her! .. that which was concived in her is of the "Holy Ghost" ..Read Matt 1

now, i ask you again! what makes mary so holy enough that i should pray to her?

** Again I Can Challange this, cause its true**

Find me ONE place in the Bible, where Jesus EVER called Mary, "Mother"!!! He always Referred to her as "Woman".. just like God referred to Eve as Woman, until after the fall, and then God said that her name shall be called "Eve" !!

Jesus said "Those who do the Will of my father are my "Mother" sister brother..etc"

If You find a place where Jesus called mary, mom, mother, mamma,.. then i will believe as you do!

It shows that Jesus of the New Testiment is Johovah of the Old Testiment

No Law but Love, No Creed but Christ, No Book but the Bible

-- Dr. Taichi (hpuxor@yahoo.com), January 17, 2001.

Didn't expect you back, Doc! Welcome. If you stay away, you can't learn!

You wrote, "What Makes Mary so holy? Was she not born in sin, shaped in Inquitiy, come into this world speaking lies, just as you and i were?"

My goodness, sir or madam! How little you know and understand! How much you insult our King and Savior through your ignorance!
You actually want our baby Jesus to be lying, for nine months, inside a woman "born in sin and shaped in iniquity"? Have you no respect for the Lord, or is it that you just say/write things in a primitive manner, without thinking them through first?
You actually want the child Jesus to be raised by a sinful woman? If you were God and had the ability to raise up a sinless woman to be your Son's mother, would you not do it? You certainly would. (If you tell me, "No," I will be certain that you have a screw loose.)

From your various posts (which have not helped us at all), Doc, it seems that your only purpose in coming here is to try to impose your beliefs on us and to criticize our Catholic beliefs. What you are doing seems very counter-productive. You are not making a single friend or convert for yourself. Perhaps you can start again by showing us respect and trying to learn the truth. Otherwise, perhaps you should not come back at all.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), January 17, 2001.

It seems to me that one or two of the anti-Catholics we've met in recent days are just on a lark. But one or two are truly pernicious characters; not just Kooks, but real wolves in sheep's clothing.

I have no qualms saying Dr. Tai Ching is one of the latter. His gospel-tent act goes to the heart of Satan's desires-- to snatch good people away from their salvation. Eveything about his message, his style and persistance is devious. He hates the Catholic Church and wants to destroy it.

Jesus said very clearly these men would come. They are wolves (Matt, 8:15) circling us for the kill.

This is not extreme. Dr. Taiching is looking in here for followers. His attempts have been clear enough. We have to take him seriously; a loving dialogue with his type would be naive and ludicrous. My own personal opinion; you might all disagree. But I know what I'm talking about, friends.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 17, 2001.

I continue to just shake my head.........I just don't get it. Why don't you people realize WHY Jesus was born of a virgin womb and died a natural death just like all of us men that ever walked the earth? If you truly understand the WHY there is no need to disscuss the Mary factor. If you make it to the kingdom of heaven it is because you are reborn and your father is GOD and your mother was a virgin, do you get it? Who then is your mother?

-- Israel (notofthis@world.com), January 22, 2001.

Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah." He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed." So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree: She cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'" At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) disputeIt is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight. But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day! How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear before Us! but the unjust today are in error manifest! But warn them of the Day of Distress, when the matter will be determined: for (behold,) they are negligent and they do not believe! It is We Who will inherit the earth, and all beings thereon: to Us will they all be returned. The Holy Quraan

-- Meeda (bntalislam@yahoo.com), December 09, 2001.

You've posted a sacriligious passage from your own book, Meeda. Our Lord has your life, death and salvation in the palm of His holy hand, and you will meet Him soon. Let's hope He has mercy on you, for your misfortune. You fell into the power of false teachers. They have followed a false prophet. The words they wrote, these which you've reproduced for Catholic readers, are blasphemous. Since you are in darkness, and know not of what you speak, we pray God will forgive you. Please don't return to post more foolish words. If you want to post messages here, they must respect our faith, and the holy name of Jesus Christ, Son of God. Peace!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), December 09, 2001.

Hey! Don't lump me in with others as a teenager getting there kicks. I am a bit old to be called a teenager being in my mid thirties. I just want to know more about where certain beliefs come from especially those that on the surface seem to have very little merit. I am happy to be corrected but not harangued or criticised or insulted!

-- Sharon (sharon.guy@ntu.ac.uk), April 16, 2004.

When the scripture says "all have sinned" does this "all" include Jesus? If not, why not?

When Jesus commands his disciples in Matthew to "call no man 'father'" but then in the very same Gospel uses parables in which he undeniably calls men 'father' and quotes the 4th commandment "honor your father and your mother"...why does he not contradict himself?

Of course these two examples and more besides show the world that Catholics know how to read the bible - and interpret it - in more than the simplistic, literal way which some uneducated and simplistic Protestants tend to, to their own demise.

Not everything in the scripture is literal, but some is. How do you know the difference? Context is one way, linguistic usage is another. Some metaphors are known only within a culture and without knowing the culture, their meaning could be lost...for example: "Mr Smith kicked the bucket". In spanish one might conclude that Mr Smith is alive and well, at least well enough to punt a bucket!

Instead of having as an a priori (prejudice) that Catholics don't know the bible and the Church always interprets things wrong, Protestants should do their homework a little bit better to see a) whether their beliefs are coherent b) why the Catholic believe what they do - and why this belief goes back to the early 100's AD if it's so wrong headed...in their view!

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), April 16, 2004.

The passage "all men have sinned" has to be considered this way: When was it written? In the OT, before Mary was even conceived in the womb. The writers of the OT didn't know of Mary, and alot of Jews during Christ's time didn't know her either. The Church, in ongoing revelation, was gradually revealed the Truth.

What does "full of grace" mean? It is applied to Mary in Luke. Full means empty of nothing. Grace is the opposite of sin, and so to be full of grace means to be empty of sin. It's that simple, and it is also logical because Christ could never have been touched with something as ugly as sin, nor grow in a womb of one who had.

There were only 4 people in human history that were conceived without original sin, and they are meant to be paired together. Adam and Eve were not conceived with original sin, and Jesus and Mary are the NT parallels. Just as sin came through one man and woman, so through Jesus and Mary(her full participation in Jesus' upbringing and birth) all of salvation. Plus, look to revelation to see Mary in her most glorious hour. The woman clothed with the sun with the moon on her feet. Why is she clothed with the sun? The sun is God's total grace. Why is she on the moon? Consider the moon. It has no light of its own, but only REFLECTS the light from the sun. That's no coincidental writing. Mary, without any grace or power of her own, reflects the light from the source; God. That is why Catholics pray and honor her.

For further Marian evidence, just look to 431 AD and the Nestorian Heresy. The Council of Ephesus in 431 AD showed the importance Mary had in the early Catholic Church. The battle was between the title "Theotokos" (Mother of God, or God Bearer) and "Christotokos"(Christ-bearer). It was also a battle between Nestorius the heretic and St. Cyril of Alexandria. In this battle, Cyril proclaimed: "Mary, Mother of God, we salute you. Precious vessel, worthy of the whole world's reverance, you are an ever- shining light, crown of virginity, the symbol of orthodoxy, an indestructible temple, the place that held him whom no place can contain, Mother and Virgin. Because of you the holy Gospels could say: "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." Also, Elizabeth's greeting proves this from Scripture, "who am I, that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?"

Let's face it, the Christian Church in the crucial first few centuries had a devotion to Mary, and the remaining Holy Catholic Church is the only Christian Church (i.e. generation) to call Mary blessed. When any Christian fails to fulfill Scripture in this way, "let him be anathema".

-- Andrew Staupe (stau0085@umn.edu), April 17, 2004.