Recently, there was a thread asking if worms were profitable. The answer is YES. A gardener I know that found out I was hobby worm ranching, asked when and if I might be able to provide him with large quantities of cast for potting his plants at his nursery. If I can meet his requirements, I'll have to expand quite a bit on the Happy Wiggler Ranch, but from what he is saying cast is worth as much or more than the worms. Apparently, he would rather pay for the cast as raise it himself. Those of you interested in vermicomposting may want to look into this as a potential income stream.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 21, 2001

Answers

Jay- You are absolutely right about the worm castings. I raised composting worms several years ago and sold castings then for $4.00/lb to gardeners without making any real effort to do so. I was in the Master Composter program in our county, so a lot of people heard about my worms through that.(Actually, around here worms sell for around $20/lb.) I stopped doing it for awhile when I went on the road for a few months- coulod not care for the worms. Just started a new bin about 8 weeks ago, so won't have any to sell for awhile, but I definitely plan on expanding my capacity- just waiting for worms! Out of curiosity, how much are castings selling for in your area?

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), January 21, 2001.

According to the gardner, he is willing to pay $2 to $4 per pound. I have to get my small set up expanded to produce 200 to 400 lbs per month. Also, I need to study more on doing grade analysis of the cast to ensure the highest quality soil mix.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 21, 2001.

Jay, I've always known there was money in the castings, the only problem is that I want them for myself, that's why I was asking about income from the worms. I should think that at $2.00 to $4.00 a pound, your nurseryman would be getting a heck of a bargain. Go to www.ezearth.com (or maybe org). In the town of Bremerton, they have a big indoor vermiculture set up, and have put local disabled and handicapped kids to work. They get old produce donated from every grocery store in the city, because they are non-profit. If I remember right they sell the castings for $8.95 for a 12 ounce bag! Of course, that is after they've dried, so it would actually take an awful lot to compete! I was just going to post a question for you, on your last post you had said you used your wife's massager on the bottom of the bin...did the worms rise to the top where they could be easily harvested? In the newer remake of Godzilla, they show Matthew Broderick collecting natural earthworms with some sort of probe, and had heard they actually do do that for scientific research, etc. Would the vibration actually make for easier harvesting, do you think? The only thing I've got that vibrates is my son's pager, but I suppose I could just keep calling it..(wouldn't that be a sight?!) But if the vibrating trick really works, I would just have to find someone a lot gutsier than me to go to the city and hit the diry book store...the only place I can think of to get something that really vibrates....or maybe I should go and try to tell them what it's for? LOL!! Kathie

-- Kathie in Western Washington (twinrosefarm@worldnet.att.net), January 22, 2001.

I am experimenting with various methods of harvesting the bins. I have dug and sifted, vibrated, and flooded the bins (it works, but its messy and kills some stock), Also , I have tried using a heatlamp to drive them down in the bins away from the casting on top. I plan to keep trying the methods to see which is most efficient. Along the vibration method, I am going to try next using a barbershop style massager on a wooden probe inserted in one section of the bin and try to migrate them away from a small area at a time. The mat under the bin worked, but they kinda got disoriented and many just stopped moving instead of directional travel up. I think I was setting up too large of a wave zone with the pad.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 22, 2001.

This intrigues me!! I have 3 nurserys within a 15 minute drive of me, with one actually within walking distance... Plus I have wanted rabbits for the last 2 years and my son wants a few dwarf for pets, so this may be an idea that can work out. Can I ask how large an operation are you looking at Jay? And how intensive time wise is this for you? Thanks in advance!

-- Eric in TN (eric_m_stone@yahoo.com), January 22, 2001.

What is casing? Earthworm poop or ? Just wondering. Finally am learing more about bees..thanks for the emails! I'm learning more than what I intended to but, at least, I'm learning :)

Ted

-- Ted Hart (tedhart71@hotmail.com), January 22, 2001.

Jay, I would like to raise worms in my greenhouse (just for me) but I don't know where to start! What type of containers are your "beds"-I thought of using the large plastic tubs from Walmart, with holes in them/ good or bad? What type of worms are you using and where did you get them? how long do you leave them in one container? Thanks Deb

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), January 22, 2001.

20 gallon bins with holes drilled are great. Old freezer chest or deep freeze chests work good. As long as you can confine the stock and keep predators out, it should work. As far as operation size, if I decide to go commercial, I am planning on setting up about 800 square feet of bed in a climate controlled building for starters. My hobby set up currently has about 40 square feet of bed space.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 22, 2001.

Jay,

I'm in N Al also; what type of climate control (inside or outside?) for your worms?

I intend to start a bin or two in the spring to deal with kitchen waste but I don't know how much heating will be needed.

Thanks.

j

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), January 22, 2001.

j,

All you need to eliminate kitchen wastes are a 20 gallon bin and 1 box of red wiggler worms from the bait store. Beside your water heater will be warm enough. I currently have my bins in what was my wifes sunporch . I use 20 gallon bins situated in a floor space 4 x10 feet. I maintain a temp of 65 to 70 degrees using electric oil radiators. What I like about using the bins is that I can scale it up or down, stack them, whatever I need to do as needs change. I was thinking of moving it outside, but have decided instead to move in the direction of year round indoor to keep better control over it as I am using it as an educational experience in addition to eliminating wastes and producing soil for our gardens.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 22, 2001.

In the home health centers of most big discount stores (ie Wally world, etc) you can get massagers of all types, including pads that are used as seat cushions (though these are a bit expensive). Unless you just want a good excuse to go the the adult book store, this is a more "dignified" alternative! Plus, try explaing the 9" bright pink "Wonder Willie" sitting next to your bin to house guests! LOL!!!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 22, 2001.

Hi Jay,

I have had worms, but always wondered if there was a good way to grind their "food" into more usable chunks. I thought about a blender, but it seems like I would have to add way too much water to get it to blend properly, and then I would be leaching the nutrients out of the bedding and perhaps sogging out (technical term) the worms. Would you mind telling me how you do it? I'd really appreciate the information! Thanks.

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), January 22, 2001.

Just a thought for you worm ranchers out there. The fellow who rasies worms and sells them to the folks fishing at the local falls of the river has worked out a worming program with a lady who raises dutch and mini rex rabbits for show. He provides the "bases" for the cages, and she lets her rabbits feed the worms. (Her cages are wire mesh 1/2" by 1/2" on the bottom.) From what I can tell, he must have 30 or so worm boxes working in harmony with those rabbits, and she doesn't have to worry about messing with rabbit waste.

The point is if you know 5 people with 5 rabbit cages, you can provide a box o' wormies per cage that'll need you to check in on them and do upkeep, but not feed them except during the winter. (At least Lenard takes his home every winter, and returns them in spring) I think that he just gives some of the casings to Christine for her garden, and keeps (or sells) the rest. Seems easy enough. I too keep some worms in a shallow wood sided pit under my bunnies.

-- Marty (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), January 22, 2001.

Laura,

I use a handcrank Universal brand food grinder that I can drive with the crank or my electric drill. I grind it to a mush slurry that I mix into the bedding. I am currently experimenting with once daily multivitamins ( the $2 for 60 cheapos) mixed into the water that I moisten the medium with. I will be posting test results on this as soon as I collect enough empirical data for evaluation of the effect on the wigglers.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 22, 2001.

Here is a worm resource for you with questions (though, of course, individual experiences are an important resource as well!):

dragnfly@chorus.net), January 22, 2001.

Well! Screwed that up, I will try again!

Worm Digest

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 22, 2001.

For those interested in Vermiculture, see if your library and get the following through inter-library loan:

Harnessing the Earthworm by Thomas J. Barrett. Published in Boston and Canada in 1947. Looks like it may be a vanity printing. Subtitled: A practical inquiry into soil-building, soil-conditioning, and plan nutrition through the action of earthworms, with instructions for intensive propagation and use of Domesticaed Earthworms in biological soil-building. (Apparently he also wrote something titled, "Earthmaster Earthworm Culture Bed" in 1942.

The Earthworm Book: How to Raise and Use Earthworms for Your Fram and Garden by Jerry Minnich, 1977, Rodale Press.

According to a small piece of paper I have in Minnish's book, "By weight, it's said, about half of all animal life is earthworms."

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol. com), January 23, 2001.

Ken,

The reference to the animal weight proportions is quite accurate. One of my reference volumes suggested that 1 acre of fertile soil would contain over 1 million worms of various genus and species.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 23, 2001.

Other resources:

Earthworm Buyer's Guide, available from Shields Publications, P.O. Box 669, Eagle River, WI 54521-0069. (Extensive list of sources.)

Raising Earthworms for Profit by Earl Shields, availble from Country Store Books, Box 6025, Suite 57, Columbia, MO 65205.

Worm Digest (quarterly), P.O. Box 544, Eugene, OR 97440-0544.

-- Ken S.in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 23, 2001.

I am wondering if anyone out there raises worms to feed chickens. Supplementally of course. Ev in Ny

-- Evelyn B. (evandjim@weserv.net), January 23, 2001.

I;ve wondered about that too. Only I was thinking about ducks . . .

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 23, 2001.

I heard of a fella that raises worms for his chickens . Give it a try. All you have to lose is the cost of some bait.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 24, 2001.

Thought I'd share the wealth (so to speak). I did a little searching for the books mentioned above and came up with ...

WORM BOOKS found at bibliofind.com

Harnessing the Earthworm

a number of different printing appear to be available; prices are $12 and up

The Earthworm Book

a number of different printing appear to be available; prices are $10 and up

Raising Earthworms for Profit

a number of different printing appear to be available; prices are $4 and up

Just trying to be helpful.

j

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), January 24, 2001.

j,

I'm reading Charlie Morgans Earthworm Farming For Profit right now. Its a 1957 book with 1975 revision, but very informative. Something he points out is that to produce castings you need active foraging worms and to produce the most offspring, you need well fed, sedentary earthworms. I have been feeding and turning all my bins the same up till now and have very active worm stock, however now I am going to put two bins to the side, heavy on the feed and just leave it set, keeping it watered to see if it will breed more actively. According to the book, sedentary worms will produce twice as much offspring and active foragers will produce 30% more castings. It may help to rotate the worm stock from breeder bins to production bins on a monthly cycle to keep them fat and productive and reproductive.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 24, 2001.

Jay: When I was a youngster, my brother and I had a worm business, just to sell those huge fat nightcrawlers to fishermen, as we lived along a river and below a reservoir. Had a great business, too. Not red worms, as those fishermen wanted the big fat ones. Anyway, we used some kind of electric probes that we put into the ground and it made the worms come to the surface, but didn't harm them. I can't remember how they were powered, though, will have to ask my parents next time I talk with them. Couldn't have been too high of voltage, as we went out at night after we and the neighbors watered their lawns with flashlights. Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), January 24, 2001.

Jan - Why were the neighbors watering their lawns with flashlights? : )

Jay - So with the sedentary and lots of feed, and active - less feed conditions, might it not work to just feed a bed heavily for a while, then add bedding and let it sit and feed very lightly or not at all? It seems that in the beginning, you'd have good breeders, then as the feed ran out the worms, including new worms from the breeding stage, would forage more actively, producing more castings. Also, since you weren't feeding as much or as often, the feed would be more decomposed by the time you harvested. Then you could just move the worms into a new, well-fed bed and start over, saving yourself the bother of rotation worms between beds. What do you think?

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), January 25, 2001.

OH, DUH! Ok, Laura caught me! I shouldn't type on this thing when I am so tired I could drop! Does sound like my neighbors were watering their lawns with flashlights! (Think there was a thread about this very thing recently!) I meant to say we went out with flash lights, after we and the neighbors had watered. Always got our shoes wet, and I HATED having to touch those slimy worms! Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), January 25, 2001.

Laura,

It should work as you suggested, however, I am going to the method I described to maintain better control over both the castings and the worms as I have found markets for both commodities. I feel the seperate systems will achieve a more effective production inventory capability, ensuring accurate data for supply estimates and overhead cost control.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 25, 2001.

Under vermicomposting and harvesting worms, the internet says some people put food on one side of a 2' by 2' bin so the worms will cluster there. The next feeding is placed on the opposite side so the worms will follow the food. They don't like light. If you use barrels wonder if a flashlight shown by the airholes could cause movement.

-- Beverly Branham (harps01@earthlink.net), January 17, 2002.

After reading the replies on this thread I thought I would put my two cents in. A good way to harvest worms from the bins is to place a stick into the bin down to the bottom and rap side of it with another stick. worms equate the sound with a mole digging and will generally come to the surface to escape. Also, a good way to pulverize food into a slurry is to set up an old sink with a garbage disposal in it. Set the sink about 3 feet off the ground and put a hand valve on the outlet 10-12 inches below bottom of sink. run outlet into 5 gal. bucket. run a little water into sink with valve closed, put scraps in, turn on disposal. works like an industrial sized blender, also easier to clean out, just run some clean water through it. Hope this helps.

-- Matthew in Indiana (reader2648@hotmail.com), April 25, 2002.