They admit they don't have a money judgement order - how do I respond to this information? Any advice greatly appreciated.

-- (_Believer14@excite.co.uk), January 30, 2001

Answers

Contact Carol at the NAMV (National Association of Mortgage Victims) she may be of help Tel: 01889 507394 - You might have to leave a message, she is extremely busy.

Contact myself if you have any difficulty contacting her.

-- Bryan Turner (bryan@loancheck.fsnet.co.uk), January 30, 2001.

When, after the 3rd time of asking the lot after me said they did not have one and also that they did not need one I responded with, amoungst other things, wording similar to the following:

"I am advised that a money judgement is a court judgement that a borrower owes the shortfall amount remaining after lenders sold their repossessed property. Lenders are supposed to seek such a judgement from the courts shortly after they repossess. If this was not done lenders have to return to court within one year of selling the property in order to issue a summons for the shortfall."

Since this letter, dated 16th November and a second one includinga copy sent on 9th December (recorded) I HAVE HEARD NOTHING!!!!!!!!!

It seems that a money judgement IS required but they can go back at a later date to get one. However, 10 years, as in my case, would take a lot of persuasion for a judge to allow it - or so I think.

Keep on asking for ALL documents, press them about the money judgement, if you can't get hold of Carol on the phone (I have tried and failed many a time) use the site map on this site and search using Carol Riley. The top response will help you out - I hope.

Any more info required, or if you want to see the full text of my letters, let me know.

All the best

-- Matt (mattyc@ntlworld.com), January 30, 2001.

You have, hopefully, not restricted yourself to only asking for a copy of the Money Order. You have, hopefully, also been requesting documentation as detailed in the Repossession section and Dos and Don'ts section of this site.

If you have, they will also be stalemating you over production of these documents. In response you should also have served a Subject Access Rights order. If you haven't done these things, your next move is to do them. Then read the "Refusal to supply documents" material in the Repossession Section. The read the Dos and Don'ts section, particularly the material on what to do when lenders won't cooperate.

Lee

-- Lee (repossession@bigfoot.com), January 30, 2001.

As I've mentioned before Matt, they didn't have an MJO after my repo in 91 but they took us backto court in 99 and got one with no resistance from the courts at all. We are now fighting against this. Jacky.

-- jacky jones (jones5@btinternet.com), January 30, 2001.

Jacky,

Yours is the most disgraceful case I have ever read about. I am afraid it reminds us that we must be very careful about the behaviour of the judiciary in the lower courts. (But then again, so must the lenders - they won't like the uncertainty, especially if they have been playing fast and loose with CPR - they might not get awarded costs, even if they somehow manage to win.)

If I had the money I'd fund you to go the Court of Appeal myself.

-- Eleanor Scott (eleanor.scott@btinternet.com), January 30, 2001.

A question for Jackie. When the lender took you back to court and obtained a money order judgement did they still have the Original Mortgage Deed? This is my read on the situation and any comments from others (either supportive of these assumptions or not) would be appreciated. In my dealings with my lender I thnk that the root of the issue is if they have an MJO then they do not have to produce the Mortgage Deed as the MJO is sufficient for them to prove their claim. However if they want to obtain an MJO at some point they must (only I think if you ask for it) produce the original Mortgage Deed. If you don't ask for the deed, I believe that the court assumes that you are not challenging the BS and admitting/agreeing with the debt, the terms of the debt and anything else the BS wants to say. If you ask for the Mortgage Deed and they don't have this either then they have a real problem. They cannot, if you dispute their claim, even prove that a debt existed let alone the terms of the debt and therefore it is a lot more dificult to obtain an MJO. Reasons a BS wouldn't have a copy of the Mortgage Deed as I understand it: 1) They have an MJO 2) The have been NEGLIGENT and lost it 3) An Act of God. (Fire, Flood etc) 4) They wrote the debt off and disposed of the Deed.

-- Tim Heath (tim_n_heath@hotmail.com), January 30, 2001.

For the record our Shortfall since 1997 is 75000 with an Attachment of earnings on,thanks to a Duff Solicitor,The lender first came after us for 49000.so we know what its like. The house was valued at 11000 in 1991 ,repo in April 1993 sold in July 1993 for 64000 came after us in dec 1996 for 49000 went to court without our Knowledge in Dec 1997 and we got Money Judgement for 75000 and not one figure was challenged in court (the solicitor has been fined by the OSS last year for this still does not help us we have to fight on!!!!!

-- charles twford (twford@lineone.net), January 30, 2001.