My poor old pooch has a limp. I can tell she's in pain. She had this once before and the vet said to give her ___________ I don't remember!!!!! I hate it when that happens. It was either asprin or tylenol. I don't want to give her the wrong thing as I know dogs don't tolerate some stuff.

They never told me back in the 60's it would have these long term effects...........I don't think they told me anyway.

Well, help this old burnout help his dog. Thanks

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), January 31, 2001

Answers

I'm afraid I can't help you as to which medication to use but I can give you a word of caution. We have a collie (the great big kind...100#) that is at least 13 yrs old. He has arthritis in his feet and is in a good bit of pain. We took him to the vet and he gave us some medication for it. This caused pretty severe seizures in our dog. We also tried some over the counter stuff that was advertised as a type of aspirin for dogs. Same thing, seizures. Whatever you try be sure and watch him for tremmors, throwing up and other odd behavior. There are several things we do that really seem to help him. First thing was getting him out of the house...out of the air conditioning(he was throwing up on my rugs...he had to go out!). Being outside as long as the temperatures didn't change drastically he seems to do better. Exercise is important. My daughter fell in love with a little fuzzy stray so of course it came home with us. The little fuzzy dog loves to tease our collie so he gets his exercise trying to catch her! Good luck.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), January 31, 2001.

I know tylenol will kill a cat,i gae our dog asprin gae him an awful stomach ach.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), January 31, 2001.

I've given my dog aspirin in the past. I used to crush it into powder and mix it with her food. She never had any bad reaction and it did seem to help. I'd check with your vet though to be on the safe side.

-- Bob Johnson (Backwoods_Bob@excite.com), January 31, 2001.

NO ASPIRIN!!!! tylenol is okay, but aspirin reacts with dogss stomach liining and can cause hemorraghing (sp?)...ibuprofen is okay as well, but try to dose her like a child not an adult.

By the way, John, I sent your tapes today. Good luck with your doggie!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 31, 2001.

Our friends give their dog 1 coated aspirin tablet daily for arthritis. The vet told them to do this and the dog does very well. I had to for our dog some years ago for hip dyslatia pain. No problems! Perhaps the coating is the difference.

-- Shau Marie (shau@centurytel.net), January 31, 2001.

Tylenol is death to dogs. Causes there liver and kidneys to shut down. It is also the prefered method of suicide in Europe. Call the vet.

-- Terri Perry (teperry@stargate.net), January 31, 2001.

Shannon you should answer this you have lots of dogs.As a older pets person I will say it its buffered asprin you use on dogs, NOT CATS! I also use sundown osteo bi flex glucosamine, chondroitin soft gels on my old dog, heck it helps my knees so I share my pills with her.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), February 01, 2001.

When my old dog wrenched her back so badly that she could not stand up from it, my vet had me put her on enteric-coated asprin for it. The coating is so that it will pass by the stomach before being absorbed. This is available commonly at grocery stores, and dose by weight. My vet has told me never to use Tylenol on dogs. However,aspirin should be considered a short term medication for accute cases rather than chronic.

Recommended in 'Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog' by two DVM's, is the use of Glucosamine sulfate and chrondroitin sulfate. They can be used singly, or in combination (other vets have suggested that the two work best given in combination). Many dogs respond just to glucosamine, but some need the combination -- try glucosamine first,a nd if that doesn't work after a month, add chrondroitin sulfate, which is available thru your vet or many pet supply houses/catalogues, as well as health food stores.

Another product that is beginning to show amazing results for arthritis in canines, humans, and equines is Cetyl Myristylate (CM), especially for animals with problems in the rear end.

These products are slower acting than aspirin is, but in the long run, they provide more benefit and much less adverse effect. Ask your vet if you need help figuring dosage by weight. I will personally add that I saw several examples of truly AMAZING results obtained on dogs using CM.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), February 01, 2001.

Believe it or not, out of all the animals here, I have no one with arthritis or joint pain. However, I have heard of a product called MSM (available in natural food stores)that supposedly works miracles for horses, and it is also used by humans. My mother and my farrier swear by it. It is for arthritis-type pain, or joint pain. Not a drug, more like a food supplement. If anyone knows what I am talking about or has experience with this stuff, I would like to hear it. I did see it in the Jeffers catalog. I hear it is safe for all animals and people. As for aspirin, I know it is bad for cats. I have no experience with giving it to dogs. I'd definitely call the vet first.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), February 01, 2001.

John, give an enteric coated aspirin, like Ecotrin. As a vet tech, I saw many dogs come in with gastric problems from plain aspirin. Also consider it a temporary fix and not something you can do forever. The glucosamine recommendation above might be better for long-term. I've seen several dogs and cats that were given Tylenol. It turned a Siamese cat's eyes green! That was from liver damage, the jaundice. And it's fast, too. Never give Tylenol to dogs or cats.

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), February 01, 2001.

Hopefully a vet will respond to your question but until then here's my answer. As a VMT (veterinary medical tech) we are not suppose to prescribe medication, but at the clinic I often hear the doctor recommend asperin for dogs (NEVER for cats!). In the seventies we would tell the owner to use baby asperin but since this is no longer available(?) try 1/4 of a reg tablet. Do not use tylenol on dogs.

-- Nancy Bakke-McGonigle Mn. Sunset (dmcgonig@smig.net), February 01, 2001.

I better go tell my vet. I don't keep tylenol around, I have given my dog ibuprofen when he hurt his shoulder really badly and that didn't seem to have ill effects at all. Also, with my Border Aussie who had horrible skin problems from allergies, I have given Benadryl with no ill effects. I wonder what tylenol does to us....eeesh.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), February 01, 2001.

Just got off the phone w/ the Vet's office. They said tylenol or asprin is ok. She got 200mg of ibuprofen last night. She's still limping around this morning. She has had this happen once in the past where she did something to aggrevate that same hip. She did fine after a day or so. I just hate to see her limp around so. You can tell it has to hurt.

She doesn't whine or anything like I do when I'm feeling bad at least. That's the good news.

As for the Glucosamine and chondroitin supplements- Hey, I love this mutt but I can't afford that stuff for myself!

The queen has got a book on natural pet care that has a bunch of diet modifications for arthritic dogs. I will look this over today and see what we can do to help out the old pooch.

A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE!!! Your rapid and kindly answers are greatly appreciated. That is the spirit that makes this a special place, of special people.

I told my shrink "Doc, sometimes I think I'm a dog" He told me to get off his couch! I get no respect.

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), February 01, 2001.

John,

Aspirin is what my vet suggests also but with the warning that the cheap aspirin will break down almost instantly and because a dogs stomach is horizontal and not vertical like ours it will lay against the wall of the stomach potentially causing a bleeding ulcer. Because of this possibility it is suggested to use Bayer even though it is expensive for aspirin because the unique buffering releases the aspirin more slowly and evenly and shouldnt cause the lining burn.

-- William in WI (gnarledmaw@lycos.com), February 01, 2001.

My lab mix has 90% hip dysplacia in one him and 70% in the other. She is 4, and my vet. told me to give her aspirin twice a day, with food, to help with the stiffness and pain (she always has a limp now). I don't know about right or wrong, but Ki takes her aspirin with soft food (I crush the aspirin and mix in) and she doesn't have abnormal vomiting or tummy trouble that I've noticed. It sure seems to help her. I guess it depends on the individual dog. It works for us, and I'm glad to help her pain.

-- Marty (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), February 01, 2001.

John i hope your dog feels better soon. Hey you do a great Rodney D. :)

-- Shau Marie (WI) (shau@centurytel.net), February 01, 2001.

Shau Marie, I LOVE Rodney. He is one of my favorites. I ran in to him in the lobby of the Radisson Hotel attached to the Star Theater in Merrillville, IN. I said hi and shook his hand and he launched on me. He was smiling the whole time and just laid cut down after cut down on me. I was laughing so hard I couldn't be mad. Strange guy. I was playing in a band at that time in the lounge attached to the hotel. We got to know the security guys and they would let us stand in the wings and watch some of the acts. That was awhile ago.

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), February 01, 2001.

Our vet recommended BUFFERED aspirin! Old Bandit has arthritis and this seems to help him without any problem and a whole lot cheaper than the "dog drugs" GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), February 01, 2001.

Well, the pooch is looking much better as the day goes on. She is putting weight on the leg and ran a little w/ the other dogs today.

The "other" dogs all belong somewhere else. They just sorta "hang out" here. I tease my youngest son by calling the dogs his "groupies" and him "Dog Boy".

I think we'll keep her on the EC aspirin for a few days. This is not the first time she has gotten "stoved up" and she's not all that old. Could be a sign of things to come. Thanks again for all of your concern. John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), February 01, 2001.

John - I use MSM on my old dog and meself! The equine MSM is available thru catalogs and is fairly cheap. Works great. The dog walks better and so do I! Do a search on it on the web and read how great it is!

-- Dianne (willow@config.com), February 01, 2001.

Hi John, I know you got in touch with the vet and all is well but I wanted to tell you that my old dog couldn't walk and my vet said baby asprin was okay. I give her one in the morning and one at night. She walks better now.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), February 01, 2001.

Just a note about aspirin: A regular aspirin is 325 gr. One-quarter of an aspirin is 81 gr. -- this is typically what is in "baby" aspirin, but can be gotten as "low dose" aspirin too. Just look and see how many grains are in it. Knowing this will help you when you are looking at what's available and trying to figure out what you need. I'm sure John knows this, but thought it might help someone else.

I'd like to also agree not to dose a cat with aspirin, but modify that to UNLESS YOUR VET DIRECTS YOU TO DO SO. I had a cat that needed to be on aspirin (for its anti-coagulant properties, not for pain). I had read that aspirin is poisonous to cats, so asked my vet. She told me that it was very easy to overdose them and aspirin should only be used under veterinary supervision. My cat got her dose only every third day, sometimes every fourth day. I think they don't metabolize it as well as humans and can build up in the system.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), February 02, 2001.

John, I know you have had a lot of good replies. Just a a warning, Tylenol or acetaminophen(generic name) is very dangerous for humans if you take the slightest amount over the recommended dosage. There are people who will tell you if 2 aspirin or acetaminophen are good then 3 are even better. This is not true in either case, but can cause serious liver damage in the case of the acetaminophen. When anyone tries to overdose on Tylenol, can do irreversible damage to their liver. So please everyone, be very careful when taking this over-the-counter medication whether it is for humans or for animals. thanks and so glad your dog is feeling better.

-- karen (kansasgoats@iwon.com), February 02, 2001.

Hi John,

I had occasion to look up the dosage for aspirin in my Plumb Manual just the other night. Plumb is like a PDR, only for vets. It tells all about all the drugs used on animals. So here's the poop on aspirin:

For analgesic (pain killing) - 10 to 20 mg/kg of body weight For anti-inflammatory - 25 to 35 mg/kg of body weight

A kg is about two and a half pounds, so my 43 pound dog weighs 17.2 kg. We decided on the 25 mg/kg dose, or 430 mg, then rounded down to 405 mg, which was five 81 mg children's aspirins. We gave them to her right after dinner. Dog felt much better. The aspirin will tell you the miligrams per tablet, so do the math carefully a couple of times to be sure you have it right, then go from there.

Plumb recommended buffered aspirin with food. Also, ibuprofen is NOT aspirin. Aspirin is safe. I don't know about ibuprofen for animals. (didn't look it up.)

Incidentally, we have an old dog who was getting very stiff and sore back in 1993. He would yelp if he had to move quickly. We put him on brewers yeast (about 1-2 teaspoons per day), and he's getting slower all the time, but he doesn't hurt. We don't know just how old he is, but I'd guess he's 16 years, minimum.

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@seedlaw.com), February 02, 2001.

Incidentally, I wasn't trying to insult you about the math thing, I just find it extremely easy to mess up my decimals when I'm doing this sort of thing, and a difference by a multiple of ten either way can make a VERY big difference, as you can imagine. So I usually do it two or three times, each time from scratch, just to make sure it's really right. Good luck!

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@seedlaw.com), February 02, 2001.

Laura, No offense taken!! If I was any smart at all I would have remembered what it was I gave her LAST time!! No, you can't go wrong giving details to people. Well, not me anyway. I figured the dose rather loosely but came out w/ in 20mg of yours. She's moving well today BTW.

Karen, You are right about the toxicity of Tylenol and aspirin. Just because they are available over the counter doesn't mean they can't kill you. Tylenol is a very good drug. It does have a pretty narrow theraputic range though. I have personally seen 4-5 people die from OD's of the stuff. One of them was not really serious about killing Herself but thought it wouldn't really hurt her and waited to tell anybody she had taken an OD. She died about a week later from liver failure. Not a good way to go. John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), February 02, 2001.

Hi!

I have a German Shepherd with severe hip dsyplacia and my vet said to give her two Bayer asprins, one in the a.m. and the other p.m. I give them to her in liver sausage. She seems to think that's great. I have always understood that Tylenol was fatal to dogs. Nutro dog food was a food for "Senior Dogs" with Glucosamine and Chondroitin for healthy joints. She's eating that now and seems to be doing a tad better.

Good luck with the dog and take care.

-- Carole (coverga@bminet.com), February 06, 2001.

Glucosamine sulfate and chrondroitin sulfate does wonders. Happy Paws makes a supplement containing both that comes in a tasty tablet my old lab loves to crunch. Also feed her the Nutro "Senior Dogs" which she likes and it comes in a smaller kibble that her old teeth can handle. Enteric coated asprin are good for dog and human alike since it passes through the stomach into the intestine before it starts to dissolve. My lab is 16 and started having hip troubles and not liking to move much, about four years ago. Since starting the Happy Paws and the Nutro Senior, she now loves to go for walks and can lay down without grunting with pain.

-- Maggie's Farm (elemon@peacehealth.org), February 06, 2001.

My dog is 17 years old, had surgery on both rear knees. Vet said to give asprin as needed for pain. I don't give it every day because she doesn't need it everyday. I am also giving Glucosamine sulfate (I take it too). She seems to be doing very well on this combination.

-- Mary R. (cntryfolk@ime.net), February 06, 2001.

As tylenol is toxic to the liver of any mammal or human being in high doses, it is better to stay away from any acetominophen product. Dosage is tricky. Ibuprofen is a proven pain reliever as well as anti-inflammatory. A single capsule (200 mg) given with a bit of food should help relieve your dog's pain.

-- Kathy (kbarlean@yahoo.com), February 07, 2001.

My 15 year old lab mix has been having pain and would not get up, we took him to the vet this past Sat., xrays showed nothing and he doesn't have much in the way of arthritis, vet said he may have pulled a ligament, and to give him asprin to help reduce the inflammation. He weighs 40 lbs and I have to carry him outside to got to the bathroom. We live in mobile home and the dog and I must be a funny sight, I have to hitch him up on my hip and hold him with one arm and hang on the the rail with the other or we would both go flying out the steps. He is better and has stopped falling into his bathroom business (that's a big plus). I give him the asprin with a piece of bologna wrapped around it, the vet said not to crush it up. And he said our dog still has alot of life left in him. I still have to make him stand up and he won't try going up and down the steps yet. I walk him up and down the yard to exercise his leg and finally he is putting weight on it and not walking sideways. Glad your dog is better.

Blessings

-- judymurray (nomifyle@yahoo.com), February 08, 2001.

This is a question, I was wondering if anyone knows if a small dose of asprin will prevent a dog from having a heart attack or stroke, like it does for humans. I know quite a bit about asprin, I am in the medical field. One thing that is quite important for everyone to know is that asprin is safer asprin substitutes. IF anyone his information I would appreciate hearing about it.

-- Larry McManus (Faithhealer@ameritech.net), January 20, 2002.