I'm considering a Jobo. I'll be processing 100-150 B/W rolls a month. Is the CPP worth the extra $500.

-- Steve Wiley (wiley@mail.accesshub.net), February 14, 2001

Answers

5 or 6 rolls of B&W per working day?
I'd say you'd be better off with a couple of double or quad stainless tanks, and 6 to 8 reels, or even a deep tank setup. It'll cost you far less initial outlay, and you'll spend much less time cleaning down, drying, and loading. You've also got a warm up time with a rotary processor, unless you leave the tempering unit permanently switched on. The actual processing time is minimal compared to these maintenance overheads.
Just MHO.

-- Pete Andrews (p.l.andrews@bham.ac.uk), February 14, 2001.

I'd say a small deep tank setup as well. 2 gal. tanks would probably work pretty well. If you're using one-shot chem. you have to factor this in your cost, with a deep tank you should be able to handle that volume on a monthly replenishment schedule. I haven't used a Jobo, so I can't comment on what your chem. usage will be like. Of course, you could always look around for a rebuilt Wing Lynch...they're pretty convenient.

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), February 14, 2001.

If you are wanting to be "tied down" to the processor, the CPP is a good choice. I think if all your wanting to do is film though, the ATL 1500 (auto film processor) might be a better bet though. Go to: http://www.jobo.com/ and find some used refurbished stuff also. An ATL 1 or 2 are good choices also for a more automatic unit. Essentially, they are the same as the CPP but with an automatic lift and dump... Cheers

-- Scott Walton (f64sw@hotmail.com), February 14, 2001.

The CPP offers digital temp control over the CPA2. FOr up to 5 rolls a day, a CPE2 will do the job for even less money. The big advantage, IMO, is that if you swithc what you are doing, the CPP is easier to set the temperture versus the CPA and CPE. You just set the digital temp and give it time to equilabrate.

Whatever model, budget a Lift. It makes a BIG difference in using the processor.

For B&W the warm up time will be minimal unless you keep your darkroom very cold.

But for a 5-6 roll every day, I would look at the ATL series. You load the drum, put the chemistry in the bottles, push a button and walk away. When it is done, you hang the film to dry.

-- Terry Carraway (TCarraway@compuserve.com), February 17, 2001.

It is true that you'd be "tied" to the processor with a deep tank line, but I don't know if you all have priced the ATL series at all. Unless you can find one used, it looks like $4,000.00 or so is the base price for the ATL 1500. That's kind of why I was suggesting the deep tank, and mentioned a used Wing Lynch as well. You can probably find a rebuilt 4, or 4E Wing Lynch with all the tube sets that you'd need for $5-10,000.00. You could probably also find just a used one for less than the price of an ATL-1500. They're pretty simple machines, but they require a Nitrogen tank, and a water panel. They come with battery backups and all that too. I haven't noticed alot of Wing Lynch users on this forum, but I thought I'd throw this suggestion out.

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), February 19, 2001.

Thanks to everybody for the generous advice. I'd ruled out deep tanks because:1) I prefer one-shot to replenishment. 2) I'll be processing film with grey backgrounds and have had problems with surge at the film edges with deep tanks. 3)I routinely print negatives processed at various labs in NYC and the film processed at Kelton Labs, who use Jobos, is far superior to the other labs who I know use deep tanks. 4) I would love to use the Expert drums for my own large format work. Thanks again.

-- Steve Wiley (wiley@mail.accesshub.net), February 22, 2001.

Steve, it's great that you've made up your mind, but the reason why I suggested a deep tank was because I was unsure of your budget. It is true that some people have horrendous agitation problems with deep tank lines, but I just want to say that we shoot all our tabletop stuff on med. gray backgrounds, and run our film through a repl. deep tank line. We've been doing this for over ten years, and get clean, consistent negs. Since we switched to TMAX RS about 6 years ago, our negs have been super clean. But, it's really a personal thing. To each his own, but I like the predictability of a seasoned dev. Good luck with the Jobo.

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), February 22, 2001.

I dunno 'bout the wang dang idear... we used to call our model 3 the "WING BITCH", ... it liked to spit the tubes up thereby lifting the lid....plus it had a belt-driven agitator spindle that would foul often... eventually I remounted the agit motor a little higher and with a couple of set screws in a collar, converted it to direct drive. It helped. Even the new model five seems to have that hokey method of agitation. You should be able to find a wangdang at your local newspaper... I work at just such a place and we've got a model 4 upstairs rotting amongst all the digital workstations. For room temp stuff like BW... well I'd just buy a 8 reel tank and get busy. A jobo won't be any faster than that.

-- Trib (linhof6@hotmail.com), February 23, 2001.

I've heard many stories like that too. But I really am a deep tank person myself for b&w. I only mentioned the Wing Lynch because I could never bring myself to pay as much money for a Jobo, despite all the fantastic things I keep reading about them. Yes, you could buy a rotting wing lynch for less than the cost of a manual jobo, and they probably would all come from newspapers that have gone digital...6 rolls a day is nothing in a deep tank. Even a home made setup using PVC drain pipe tubes could handle that & be left up permanently (as was done at newspapers too.) Oh well, I'm not trying to stir up trouble here, really, but it just seems like by the time you get everything set up, and attend to the processor, and knock it down/dry the tubes out for another run, that you could have just run the film through the tanks and have been done. I better stop now while I can...

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), February 23, 2001.

I concure w/ DK on using a deep tank system w/ a replenished developer. I have always found greater consistancy in using a seasoned developer over one shot. Some points on surge - as you more than likely are aware - its a result of improper initial agitation, usually establishing itself during the first 30-60 seconds of development and is more prevelent when using high energy type developers w/ short development times. Also, a rotary processor is not immmune to this problem. I have seen surge on negatives that were processed using a JOBO that was as bad as anything Ive seen with other systems.

-- jim megargee (jmegargee@nyc.rr.com), February 24, 2001.

Back to the original question. Is the CPP mechanically better? Is the build quality higher, or is it just the cold water solenoid and digital readout that adds to price? If I'm only processing B/W, can I add my own $40 digital thermometer to the CPA and be just as happy? As always, your collective consideration of this matter is deeply appreciated.

-- Steve Wiley (wiley@mail.accesshub.net), February 27, 2001.

Steve, sorry that my answers caused the topic to drift so. My gut reaction (again I am not a Jobo user) would be that if you are only going to be doing b&w, and that's all you ever think you will do, then why pay for the extra control? Unless of course this cooling solenoid can actually function in a water-chilling capacity. This might be nice if you live in are with not so cold tap water, and you are trying to run a water jacket in the summer time. I suspect it has more to do with E6/C41 proc. though. One thing to think about is whether or not you'd be limiting yourself in some way, if you did decide to run color someday. Hope this helps, and no more comments from me on this one..

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), February 27, 2001.

Steve, CPP is not mechanically better. All it has extra is cold solenoid and digital builtin thermometer to control temperature.

-- Boris Krivoruk (Boris_Krivoruk@ams.com), February 27, 2001.

There are the same mechanically.

But I think the CPP uses a digital thermostat, not just a digital thermometer. This will allow you set different temps easier, just set and wait to stabilize. The CPA and CPE use an analog setup that does require tweaking to get the temp right.

-- Terry Carraway (TCarraway@compuserve.com), February 27, 2001.