My daughter got a Great Pyrenees from a breeder 1 week ago and she isn't eating very good. She is about 3 or 4 years old, has been in a kennel all her life. Has had a couple litters of puppies, these are raised as show dogs. We bought the feed that the breeder told us he uses but she keeps pushing the bowl around like shes trying to bury it or something. I have never seen this behavior in a dog before and I am wondering if anyone who is familiar with this breed could help me out. We have her in the house and she is treated like one of the family, do you suppose that this change in her "lifestyle" is a shock to her and will she ever start eating normally? Everything about her is great except the part that she won't eat. She has eaten some food, but very little, and that is only if I put beef juice on it, and sometimes she won't eat that either.Yet she loves the homemade liver treats that I give her. Is it possible for her to willingly starve herself??? Thanks - Kathy

-- Kathy (jubilant@ncweb.com), February 27, 2001

Answers

Kathy , the dog doesnt understand the change .She has never been a part of a family .Give her time and love .She will eat in time .Don't give into putting beef juice on her food , she will not starve herself .Is she being crated ? If so feeding her in a crate or a quiet spot may help .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), February 27, 2001.

I adopted a kennel dog a few years ago and we went through similar problems with her. By the way, this was not a Great Pyr. Not only did she not eat for several days, she was not housebroken, and didn't know how to play. We did work on the housebreaking and she came around, but we never could leave newspapers down on the floor! She never got the hang of play, except with the cat, and they worked out a stalking sort of game where they took turns chasing each other. We tried to get her to fetch, but the concept was lost on her. I think she assumed she couldn't go any further than the dimensions of the kennel. Lots of attention and a predictable routine should bring your girl around to her full potential in a short time. I've re- homed several dogs over the years and it seems to take 2-4 weeks for them to begin to really relax and get comfortable.

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), February 27, 2001.

I agree with Patty about the emotional part. She will need time for such a change in lifestyle.

There is nothing wrong with your putting beef juice on her food, however, in fact I would suggest adding pieces of meat to her usual food too. Meat is a dog's natural diet anyway, not that dry stuff in a bag.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), February 27, 2001.

I certainly agree with Earthmama, in fact you may want to just lurk through the egroups.com now Yahoo, lists on the Barf diet, bones and raw foods. I have always, unknowinly, been using this diet, didn't know their was a name for it. You simply won't believe the difference in any dogs when you feed them correctly. Our dry dog food that we use is simply kept out free choice for anyone who wants it we actually feed very little of it. Their main diet is meat, chicken wings, oil, milk and eggs. We also use supplements, vitamins etc., and I know I feed far less and also spend less than my friends whos dogs never live as healthy or as long as lives as my dogs do. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 27, 2001.

I have had 11 'kennel' dogs and 'pound puppies' over the past 22yrs. and it does take several weeks before they get used to a new routine! Some of ours were abused/neglected dogs and they all come around except for one. I also offer dry feed at a free choice of all my dogs but they get all the leftovers(without any bones)that we have. They love cooked veg., old cerals, breads, any meat and we always feed oil/grease from any meal! My vet thinks this is very good for them.

You may have a problem if your 'girl' has always been fed with other dogs and now she is alone. She may be waiting to 'fight' for her food. I have one that will not eat alone but put another one in the lot with her and she acts starved (she doesn't actual fight but she eats really well!)

Are you feeding her at the same times the breeder did. ie--If you feed in the am and he fed in the pm she maybe confused!

Most animals, by nature are creatures of habit and it is really hard when everything changes at once.Keeping giving her lots of love and if she continues to have problems contact your vet!

Good luck.

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), February 27, 2001.

Pyrs. are funny,they do not like change and it takes them aliitle longer to settle in. She more then likely feels she has lost her flock and will need time to adopt you. Even though she was not a working dog the feelings are probably there. Pyrs. that i have had are not into "playing" they wont chase or catch a balls {its a bad trait} try walking her alot. I would not worry about food she will eat when she feels settled,do not push her to become a "family" pet she will at her own pace. good luck

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), February 27, 2001.

What you're describing is very common in the Livestock Guardian Dog breeds like Pyrs, because they are so extremely territorial that they find being moved unbelievably stressful. So stressful that they usually don't eat for a while, until they get used to the change. Don't worry, your girl'll come around in a short time. She won't starve.

For what it's worth, your dog's quirk of burying what she considers excess food is also very typical of the LGD breeds as a group. Anytime you give LGDs more food than they want, they'll bury it (or try to) so it doesn't attract predators. Smart dogs.

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), February 27, 2001.

Hi Kathy,,,I just went thru similar problems with a poodle I got. She was a kennel dog and didn't understand being free in the house to walk around, or even in a small room. Didn't know how to play, nor any social manners, except she was housebroke,,thank goodness! She didn't eat hardly anything,,and was always "worried" like she was fussed at a lot. I begin to realize that this was all so foreign to her. Culture shock.*** I would take her into the living room and sit her on my lap to pet her and talk to her. I let her know it is alright to play and jump and be happy all at her own pace.***I had to give her a complete groom,,(hair was matted somewhat) and bathed her 3 times to get all the dirt off her. When I was done, she looked like a different dog, for sure! I hated to do all that grooming so soon on her arrival, but she just needed it so bad. She was so sweet, never offered to be agressive in anyway.***I too, bribed her with meat brothe and gravy, etc. plus dry food. and treats. I make my own doggie jerky from scraps. I give her a vitamin each day which she refuses,however she has gained some weight. I know a few tricks to get that vitamin down her without her even guessing it is there. :),,, I wormed her also. ***She has settled in pretty good now,,still don't like to be around anyone but me. But she and my other poodle are friends and she plays with my cat also. She has accepted her "new" world,,and I think she is happier. It took some time and patience,,lots of TLC along the way. She too, is nearly 4 years old. So, it is a culture shock to a kennel dog to become part of a family,,but it can be done,,,,and they end up loving it** and they won't starve themselves. :-),,,take care,,Enjoyed all the experiences,,, Patsy

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), February 27, 2001.

Kathy:

Pyrs are wonderful dogs. We have two litter mates, male and female, about 7 months old. They live in the pasture with our Nubian Goats. They are very intelligent, but also very independant. Here are some links to a couple of email groups that specialize in Prys. You have to set up a Yahoo account (free) to join.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GrPyrLGD

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PyrTalk

Skip Walton, Sunday Creek Nubians, www.sundaycreek.com

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), February 27, 2001.

The reason I suggested not giving table food is that I got the feeling the only reason they where doing this is to get her to eat .If you plan on continueing it great , if not dont .I give mine meat scraps , veggies ,potatoes, rice , just about everything .Lets also remember she probally has never had any of these and she is stressed {good time for a upset stomach} which you don't need now .Good luck and keep us posted.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), February 27, 2001.

Not all vets favor the raw food diet.

== Their main diet is meat, chicken wings, oil, milk and eggs. We also use supplements, vitamins etc., ==

'Scuse me, but I don't see a healthy diet here. I would think the dog should be getting heart, gizzard, liver, brain....the entire animal ~ everything but the skin of the critter ~ for a balanced meal, since folks are trying to copy the wild dog. The innards are where all the nutrition is. Some do feed this way, and they spend a fortune, which is their choice. Personally, I could never feed that way, not because of the money, but because I have yet to meet a vet in favor of this. But, to each his own.

My dogs live 18-20 years and never need a vet, so I figure what I'm doing can't be too terrible! Of course they're not couch potatoes! Not sure of the age of them. One wandered onto the ranch 8 years ago and I figure she was about 2 years. She runs miles everday on my 30 acres. The other dog is also a dump, a little 10 pound thing found out in the middle of nowhere a year ago. She's about 2-3 years. She also puts in a lot of milege, but not as much as the larger dog!

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), February 27, 2001.

My Borders will ALWAYS bury their food dish with invisible dirt if they don't feel like eating it all. It's so funny to watch, they pick up air with their nose and push it down on top of the food over and over till they think that is enough. They do it with milkbones on the sofa too. They push the milkbone into the corner of the sofa, and cover it with invisible dirt. We have to pretend like we don't see it anymore. They will look right at us to see if we are watching them, we just giggle and pretend we aren't. They will come back to it, checking to make sure it is there. If another dog goes to sniff it, that one will jump up, go get it, and find another place. They won't actually eat the milkbone unless I break one into little pieces.

When I give Zip milkbones on the sofa, she actually picks up the blanket she's lying on with her teeth, and pulls it over her stash. I have to cover them up for her, or she will go nuts pulling on the blanket we sit on. It's so funny.

I can't leave food outside in their house unless it is in buckets or they will completely fill up the dish with straw and dirt. When I give the litter a couple pans of food, I have to take moma out, or she will cover it up when they are full, and it ruins the food.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@hotmail.com), February 28, 2001.

I agree that your dog is stressed right now. All the advice given sounds great. Please keep us posted how she does. I feel so sorry for her, but I think she is in a good home.

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), February 28, 2001.

Thank you all so much for the advice. You have put my mind at ease. She is such a wonderful dog and is really coming around in the socialiaztion process. We fed her "stir fry" with meat and vegetables last night and she gobbled it all up. Thanks again - Kathy

-- Kathy (jubilant@ncweb.com), February 28, 2001.

== Their main diet is meat, chicken wings, oil, milk and eggs. We also use supplements, vitamins etc., ==

'Scuse me, but I don't see a healthy diet here. I would think the dog should be getting heart, gizzard, liver, brain....the entire animal ~ everything but the skin of the critter ~ for a balanced meal, ==========================

Geeze Rogo, what is heart, gizzard, liver etc. other than meat? I didn't go into the whole diet, gave the information that I use. From the above blurb of my dogs diet you deduce it is unbalanced? Yes, if I say something is black you will say it is white, so just answer the questioner and why comment on my post at all? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 28, 2001.

It does indeed take time for a new dog to get ajusted to a new home and family. She will be eating her food and begging for more in no time. Stress will slow the appetite, but when she feels like she is at home it will come back.

-- Sue (jspotts@ncweb.com), March 05, 2001.

IMHO, determining a healthy diet for one's dog by what most vets suggest is about as sensible as deciding what YOU should eat based on most physicians' advice. (In simple terms, forget about it!!) They both come from the same corporate-funded "educational' factories, and our government which serves as wet nurse.

Incidentally, it is absolutely NOT true that "the innards are where all the nutrition is." Yes, organ meats have higher levels of many nutrients, and are definitely included in the BARF diet. They are TOO rich however, for the main part of a balanced diet. Muscle meats are very nutritious. As far as including the whole animal in our pet's diet, that is the ideal, it is true. Its also true that it is almost impossible to do, because of , once again, federal regulations. I sell organic meat for a good part of my living, and I cant even get tripe from my OWN animals back to my farm! The govt thinks some people might wanna eat the disgusting putrid green stuff, so it must be "denatured" , which makes it unusable even to the dogs, and no longer natural anyway.

If all your dogs live to be 18-20 years, I would submit that perchance you would have a shot at some kinda record?! Especially if you feed them commercial food! I have seen the statistics about life expectancies of various breeds, and how they have dismally diminished over the last 30 years (since commerical pet food became the norm).

Just curious: you say "because I have yet to meet a vet in favor of this." Well, if your long-lived dogs 'never see a vet', how is it that you meet all these vets in order to ask?

I am, after all, Earthmama

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), March 06, 2001.