Well we finally did it , we got lucky and got 2 beautiful Saanen grade goats , a young doe and a buck ,(we want to get a wether too) my problem is , the people i got them from run a large farm , the one person whos goats they were wasnt home, so , beyond knowing that they are 1 1/2 to 2 wks old , i am lost , they both have a bit of the runs, i am treating them for Coccid today , and i checked the thread about scours and am going to try the activated charcoal . so . i need help , how much should they be drinking of the milk replacer? how often ? (right now we were going to let them tell us )what should they weigh? we have them in the house now , when will they be ready to go to the shed , there are no other animals out there , and i am afraid it would be way too cold for them now, maybe the end of march??? what can you do to help me out , any more info , on thier development would be appreciated ...even though i have been reading goat books , now that they are hear , i am as nervous as i was with my own first child......

-- Beth Vanstiphout (paganmom2@ivillage.com), February 28, 2001

Answers

Your best bet is to call them later and see how much they were eating and how often .Usually every 3-4 hours .Are they in a pen or diapers ? They are so cute at that age .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), February 28, 2001.

Beth, There should be instructions as to amount on the milk replacer container.We use Purina and is recommends 1 pint per feeding maximum twice a day.Of course when they are small you feed less but more often.I would say a weight of 10 lbs + or - 2 would be about right for their age.We use regular Kaopectate to stop diareah.You can put your coccidiosis medicine in the Kaopectate.Give them a large dose of Kao.I use a couple of ounces.At two weeks they should be nibbling grass/hay/feed.They won't really eat much but give them some to learn on. Make them a secure,warm place outside.The urine will run you out of your house soon.I speak from experience there.I tried keeping a couple of bottle babies in a playpen.Big mistake. Whatever you do stop the runs immediately.If you can't get it stopped in the next 24 hours call your vet.

-- JT in Florida (gone2seed@hotmail.com), February 28, 2001.

hmmm, i just spent the better part of the afternoon at 2 diffrent feedmills looking for goat milk replacer , no luck , so i will continue them on the milk/whey based calf milk replacer , we also reduced the amount they were drinking , i couldnt find treatment for cocid... what should i use for this , i found a lot of medicines for cows and others , tetramyacin and neomyicin, would one of these work? with dosage adjusted for thier weight?? repeated calls to the seller have met with little help , they dont de horn thier goats and they give no shots or treatments of any type to the kids , since they generally sell them for meat (ugh) funny you would think i am about 40 miles away from the countryside hq and i cant find anything about goats , the best info i got from the hardware store guy , and he was the one who reccomended lowering the amount of milk i was giving them , he also reccomended an electrolyte solution , but , since the babies didnt have the runs when i got them , i am thinking this was a human error thing

-- Beth Van Stiphout (paganmom2@ivllage.com), February 28, 2001.

You can use lamb milk replacer. I use it all the time with no problems. You can also use whole cows milk from the grocery. At that age, twice a day would be enough. Let them drink as much as they want, but I wouldn't give them over a 20 oz bottle twice a day. I usually give a 16 oz one. You can use Pepto Bismol for the diarhea. Coccidia usually doesn't hit them until 3 weeks of age or older. It could be E-coli. I've been dealing with that. Usually need a drug from your vet to get it under control. Call the vet & see what they recommend for the diarhea. Albon is good for Coccidia. They should also be vaccinated with CD/T & a Bo-Se shot if your area is selenium deficient. Check with your vet on that. Good luck!

-- Wendy (weiskids@yahoo.com), February 28, 2001.

Hi Beth, Please be a little careful about treating them for Cocci, since the treatment can in some circumstances be kind of hard on them. Besides, the problem is much more likely to be the milk replacer you are using. Calf milk replacer just doesn't have what it takes to feed baby goats. Go get some whole cow's milk from the store and be sure it is at the proper temperature before giving it to the kids. Kaopectate is good and mild. Vicki can (and in all likelihood will) give you lots of good information when she signs on, so check back often! Good luck!

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), March 01, 2001.

Beth, if you are close to the people, see if you can buy milk from them. Are these goats on CAE prevention? If you can't find kid replacer, you can use whole milk from the grocery. Usually scours result from either cocci or getting too hot or too cold or too much milk. The milk should be at about 100 degrees. They should get at least three feedings a day, but since they are scouring I would cut the amount down and feed them four times per day. There's a thread in the archives on cocci, or maybe several so check those out.

You might want to try an electrolyte replacer on them. Here's one I use from Jd's book on goats...I use it on any animal that's shocky as well as kids!

8 tablespoons honey

1 teaspoon baking soda

2 teaspoons salt

1 gallon warm water

Shake it up real well and feed them 4 oz several times a day. I cut the ratio down to mix it fresh each time. Don't microwave anything you feed them.

As for when they can go outside, I guess it depends on how cold it is where your located...I have no idea! Get them through these scours and then see how it all shapes up. Good luck!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 01, 2001.

If you don't want horned goats, you will also need to think about getting these babies disbudded as soon as you can get them well. We try to do it at a week to 10 days. I have found that if you wait too long after that, it is harder to do a good job. We also use Pepto for the runs. You can give them a good dose several times a day if necessary. I agree with the others that it is likely a problem with the milk. Be sure to temp it and don't give too much at once. The lamb's milk replacer is usually easier to find than goat's milk replacer, and should do fine. mary

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), March 01, 2001.

Sometimes I have put a heat lamp in a corner of the barn for kids. If you try this, be sure that there is NO way the kids can pull the lamp down, also the cord should be where they can't easily nibble it.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), March 01, 2001.

Never, never use cow products on goats,get a product called Neomycin Solution, it is a sulfate oral solution, put 8 drops in one milk feeding twice a day,for the diarrhea,for 3 to 4 days, use only lamb replacer, you should be able to find it at local feed store,or use goat milk, the kids at this age should have had the colostrum by now.Call the people you got them from and see what they were feeding them and how much. Try to do the same and if you have to change milk do it slowly! Get their CD/T shots now! You might need some Syntabac Plus gel, it is the good bacteria, get from vet. maybe from feed store. If your barn is dry and warm without drafts, they can go out now!Feed about a pint of milk a day in 3 or 4 feedings, it won't hurt for them to be a little hungery.Do that for a few days until you get the runs under controll, then follow the direction on the replacer package. I feed our Nubian kids replacer. I use the 12oz. pop bottles, and when they are 2 to 3 weeks old they get, a bottle 3 times a day. Be sure to offer them hay even at this age, if they were with mom, they would start nibbling at it soon. Good luck with them. Mary

-- Mary in Idaho (oseancess@aol.com), March 03, 2001.

I'm sorry I just jumped right in their without even introducing myself. I am Mary, I've lived in Idaho most of my life, but was born in Tennessee, NW. But SW Idaho is my home now (33 yrs.now.) We have 5 acres, 20 reg. Nubians, 3 Irish Setters, 2 house cats, about 20 barn cats, chickens,and turkeys. I usually raise a beef, (and can most of it) and a couple of pigs (and I can most of them too.) I don't work, ha ha, not away from home anyway! I have subscribed to countryside mag. for several years, really enjoy it. I just found their web site, I really enjoy it also. I also raise a large garden, I was brought up on a farm in Tenn. I will go now, but I didn't want to seem rude, bye now! Mary

-- Mary in Idaho (oseancess@aol.com), March 03, 2001.

How are the kids doing? Try Probiosis (benificial bacteria) in their replacer. This both prevents and treats scours. My Amish friend uses this on their dairy farm and she swears by it.

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), March 03, 2001.

ok , 1st i would love to thank everyone for all your help , we finally did find kid milk replacer , at of all places a pet store in wausau,not at any local feedmills . odd huh ? ok , we also finally got back to the owner , this farm , i dont know , but i will describe it , and i welcome any opinions , its an older farm they have , along with the goats abt 20 head of cows and 10 pigs , abt 10 chihuahuas running around and a few handfulls of chickens , nothing is new so its all very dirty!! the kids , there were about 70 of them and they were in anything from plywood pens to cardboard boxes !! they wont sell any of the females (understandable) but they cant psossible handle all the goatlings : ) they have now they had been feeding cows milk to these guys , they werent allowed with mommy after one day , so they got very little colostrum , now i am assuming this is the exception rather than the norm , everything i have heard recc. to leave kids with mom for at least 3-4 days . my question is this , if removing the kids from mom so early , the mother isnt making milk , not "true" milk yet , so what would be the point >? when i asked about the CAE, i was met with a blank "duh" kind of look....and of course like i said before , they dont de horn the goats , so when i asked about it i was told " takes too long" , btw none of the cows were dehorned either.. we decided to take 2 more , for werthers to train for pulling , where would i find info on this ??? as to the rest of this , like i said , thank you everyone for your help , and i guess i was just frustrated with this farms condition , so i needed to vent.

-- Beth Van Stiphout (paganmom2@ivillage.com), March 03, 2001.

Hi Beth, the very sad thing about this is most folks who don't continue their education (like vets) know very little about CAE. Judy Kapture just had a great article on CAE in this months Dairy Goat Journal about the loss of production across the board when milking any stock with CAE.

We also don't let our kids nurse their dams, and we also only give kids colostrum for 12 hours, after that time the gut closes down anyway, and though the colostrum has a laxative effect, it is no more or less good for them than going onto milk. The biggest thing that dairies don't understand, especially ones like this (filthy) is that the expense of raising your own replacements is much higher than buying replacements. In high end dairies with milk records and disease control, of course you would be wanting to keep your own replacements, even then we fostered off our doelings, giving them to a gal for free to raise, then when they freshened we would pick through the udders keeping the best ones for ourselves, giving her a few does for her time, and lease off the others.

Disbudding and vaccinating takes about 2 minutes per kid, wonder who is even trimming feet? We also have a dairy like this around, gives the goat milk and the goats a bad name, makes you wonder how they pass inspection, must know their USDA inspector very well :) !!! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 03, 2001.