Help!! My goat (an alpine) was due Feb 28. Her side ligaments (or tendons?) got mushy, one of my daughters and I were ready. We sat out in the barn with her. She was getting really agitated and butting the little pygmy goats. Lacking another barn, we put the pygmies in one of the bathrooms in the house since the weather was horrible...anyway, we stayed out there freezing our butts off (next project..make a better barn) and nothing happened. Those ligaments tightened back up, everything seemed to stop.I can get my fingers together under her tailbone. She lifts her tail just fine still..She even seemed to be pushing little bitty pushes...then it all stopped...today is Mar 2..still nothing. Her sides are sunk in, she is walking really slow..she bagged up on the 28th..We are checking her every hour or sooner if we can't see her walking around. She has made a very nice nest in the hay.Those tendons..ligaments..I am too tired to remember which one it is...anyway, they are long, go from the hip bone to the bottom rib..they are like a rubber band, not tight, not loose, just bouncy. Any clues?? Should I call a vet? She doesn't seem to be in pain.

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), March 02, 2001

Answers

Vet. Definitely and now, imo.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 02, 2001.

The first big question is are you sure of the date? What day was she bred by the buck? My Lamancha's routinely went before the 150 days, where my Nubians just about kid on 150 days, quad does maybe 148. Rarely do we have does go after. If her udder is full and she truly has lost her ligiments, her tail would be floppy since this is what helps her control flagging her tail. Than a 2cc shot of Lutelyse IM will bring things a coming in 36 hours, if she goes earlier than she was already in labor. Once again, having a goat mentor who can come to your place, stick a gloved hand in to feel for cervix thinning, dialating, and for kids, is so much eaiser, and something someone can easily teach you.

Rule of thumb around here, when I do chores in the a.m. and the girls eat, they will not kid till much after 3 or 4 in the afternoon. Refuse dinner and you will definetly have kids that evening, very few of my girls kid in the middle of the night since this is when they lay down and digest all their hay that is fed in the evenings.

Even if this was a cloudburst you would have seen copious amounts of water/fluid. If you were watching her closely than she couldn't have been in labor, pushed for several hours, and now quit, you would at least see a dirty vulva and very swollen.

Not really sure what good a vet would be unless they had an ultrasound to show position of the kids. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 02, 2001.

Thanks, I called a couple of vets (actually found some that do goats!! I couldn't find any a month ago). She is having what seem to be contractions (tightening, then loosening of the abdomen). I am going back out to watch her real close again. She ate this morning...a little, but is mainly taking little sips of water. She keeps laying down now, whereas before she wasn't, she would just keep getting up and pace back and forth.

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), March 02, 2001.

I am with Vicki, I have seen alpines go for two weeks with all kinds of symptoms, so if there is any chance at all that she could have bred later than you think, I wouldn't worry too much. You should see discharge and pronounced discomfort if she is anywhere near close. I suspect you will have babies soon. Goat birth like human birth is always filled with uncertainty.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), March 02, 2001.

How is your goat? One of my does went past due last year and I couldn't get a vet to even look at her. They all told me not to worry and that they did not induce goats - we REALLY need a good goat vet out here! After 2 weeks of panicking I finally managed to locate someone to give me a Ludelace (spelling)shot to induce her. She pasted buckets or water and no kids - cloudburst.

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), March 03, 2001.

Nothing has happened yet...her side ligaments seem alot softer this morning..we'll see if they stay that way....she is still grouchy and walking around. She is still having the braxton hicks contractions. I can feel feet at least! I have felt movement, so that is good. I am concerned that there seems to be less movement then yesterday, but the babies could just be resting. I check her again in 45 minutes. I talked to 4 vets yesterday (where were they when that goat got bit by the spider and went blind??) sigh..one wanted to so a c-section...all money up front..maybe get a refund if it isn't needed...the other three said to wait and see what happens, no mention of inducing. I will keep you posted!!

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), March 03, 2001.

Some goats will drive you crazy like that. According to the book 5 days either side of due date is normal. Hope she drops those kids soon for you. (You might ask the vet about the shot to induce-- sometimes you have to tell a doc what you want.) Good luck, mary

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), March 03, 2001.

Hi Cindy,

How is she doing? Has she kidded yet? I happened to read your post today and began to think of a recent incident we had last week Saturday. You may want to try to go in and feel around. Scrub up good, put on some gloves, lubericate them a bit with KY jelly and probe around and see what you can feel. It may be that the kid is presenting backwards or in a un natural position and she can't deliver on her own. I know what you mean about getting the vet out, we had to call the vet last Saturday and NEVER got a call. We had a doe, my special doe, wizard who was a first freshner go into labor. i knew on Thursday she was getting close. And she also had a look about her, now i KNOW that look and will act ASAP! But anyways, last Saturday she was going into hard labor yet nothing happening. i went in to see and felt a wall of flesh. I immediately called our vet. I also called our neighbors who are experienced in deliveries for help.

Bless their hearts they were able to come because I was not able to deliver this one by myself. The kid was a big buck kid and was coming out, yet his neck was bent backwards. We worked for about an hr and finally delivered the kid who was born dead. I checked Wizard over but no externaly visual sign of any troubles. I also gave her anitbiotics and applied prep H to her for swelling. she wasn't drinking much and refused to eat. i just felt something had gone terribly wrong. It had, we lost her early monday morning. i tried in vain to save her. Giving her everything I could think of and called a freind for help in such matters. (we noticed shortly before she died why, she had internal bleeding, a tear somewhere as she expelled a fatal discharge. Oh, she passed her placenta fine so we were optimisitic on saturday) even slept with her and said a tearful goodbye as she slipped away. I pray i never have to go through that again no anyone else. But such is the life of having animals.

Do you have anyone nearby who raises livestock that may be experienced to help you deliver? Good luck and please keep us posted.

Bernice

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), March 03, 2001.

Bernice , I'm sorry tohear of your troubles .It hard when we loose the fight .It sounds like you did everything right .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), March 03, 2001.

Bernice,

That is so sad. :-( I hope you don't have that experience again. Her side ligaments seem squishier today then yesterday....she is still doing the pointy ear thing every so often and her stomach gets hard...I hope things move along today!! I am calling the people we bought her from to see if they have any ideas. Tnanks so much for the morale support and advice!!

Cindy in OK

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), March 03, 2001.

Thanks Cindy and patty. I hope all goes well for your gal. i forgot to mention, that when i mentioned the "look", there is a look that a doe will have if there happens to be a problem kidding, can't quite describe it, but they look out of sorts, just different. Keep us posted Cindy about your gal.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), March 03, 2001.

That is such a shame Bernice! We had a doe who also ruptured her uterine artery but instead of bleeding into the uterus so we could see the blood, she just went back and layed down after delivering her kids and died. She was so peaceful I though she was sleeping. Opening her up was when we saw the blood pooled in her abdomen. Knowing that we (and you) could not have done anything to save them helps a little. Knowing also that this happens rarely! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 03, 2001.

Bernice, I am so sorry! How sad....{{{hug}}}. I am just praying that my doe doesn't have any troubles.She's bigger than usual and has a few months to go yet...

Cindy, I am anxious to hear when she kids! I would have been to the vet already:)...Best to you!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), March 03, 2001.

The vet that seems to have the most concern says she is moving along ok. I called the people we bought her from and they weren't 100% sure of her due date. That helped ease my mind a bit. This is worse then having my own kids!!! I was always early and had early labors etc..spent time in hospital trying not to have them too early. Hubby says I am getting a taste of my own medicine, what I put everyone else through, with the early labors and all. rotten guy! ;-)

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), March 04, 2001.

Just a suggestion, but keep a written record of your goats' kidding symptoms. (We have individual 3 ring folders on all our goats with pages headed Medical History,Breeding Record, Freshening, Milk Prodution, Misc.; the reg papers go in one pocket and health papers etc go in another.) You may not think that you will ever forget this event but after a few years and probably many more goats, it is nice to have something to research insead of just relying on your memory, if she does this again. We have had goats that routinely go five days over or kid early. Before we went purebred in 82, we had a grade Tog who ,I swear, could stop labor for a week if the weather was bad! The first time she pulled it we went crazy, sound familier? After she did this for a few years we realized that there was nothing wrong and didn't worry. We still kept close watch but didn't camp out in the barn. Because of her we started keeping detailed records on all our goats' kidding habits. If someone breaks routine the vet is called. (Last time was a retained placenta) The peace of mind is worth the little extra effort.

-- Nancy Bakke-McGonigle Mn. Sunset (dmcgonig@smig.net), March 04, 2001.

Cindy, please check your doe internally. Clip your fingernails short and scrub your hands well beforehand. You will probably have to tie the doe up as they are not real fond of being examined, and lubricate your hand. Go in first with just one or two fingers and see what you feel. If there is a bag of water or a kid, then make your hand into a cone and put the whole hand in gently,and see what the problem is. she may just have false labor, or she may have a kid twisted around in there. They don't always have a discharge when they're in labor and having trouble. I have had a horrible kidding season this year, four does have kidded, and three have needed help. Two of them would have died without assistance. Please check her- it will give you a lot of peace of mind if she is not dilated yet, and just not ready to kid, or could save her life if she needs help. You don't have to be an expert to check her, how else can we learn but by trying, carefully?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 04, 2001.

That is an excellant idea on the goat book, I do that for the cats, makes sense to carry it over to goats!! :-) I did an ob exam on her last night (she didn't like the stirrups though...had to do it with her standing up ;-) At midnight, she was just beginning to dilate, then everything seemed to stop. I checked her again during the night (not internally, just see if she needed anything) she slept, ate, walked around acted normal. I did an exam on her again this morning and she is almost fully dilated. She is making progress and so far , so good. I hope it stays that way. Last night, when I checked her, I could feel a bag of water, but she wasn't dilated enough and I didn't have man power to hold her still so I didn't go for a search and find, I just let her be. This morning, I couldn't feel anything, but an external exam showed that the baby was not as high as last night. Things will get going...they will....sigh...I think she is waiting for spring. Thanks for the wonderful help! I will keep you posted!!!

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), March 05, 2001.

It's a GIRL!!!!! Such a pretty thing!! While I was posting my last post on this, she was standing at the fence having the baby. I am sad I missed it and sad that she was probably waiting for me at the fence and I missed my one hour check the goat mark. I should have gone on out, I had just gotten to the point of feeling like it would be a day or so when she had it. I am so glad she did it easy!!!!!! THANKS!!!!!! For all the support!!

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), March 05, 2001.

Congratulations.That makes it all worth while.

-- JT (gone2seed@hotmail.com), March 05, 2001.

I am so glad to hear that everything worked out OK! Aren't they just the sweetest little things? We had a set of twins born this morning, without any compications for a change.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 05, 2001.

Congratulations on the twins!!! What fun!!!

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), March 05, 2001.

CONGRATS on the babies, glad all went well. HUGS

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), March 05, 2001.