This great country of ours has hit a snag. All banks are closed. All stores are closed, transportation is stopped, no gasoline, no services of any kind. Hospitals are all shut down. Question now is "Can you survive and for how long?" The food/water/medical supplies you have stockpiled-what happens when it's all gone? Do you have the knowledge to carry on if you're in an area that's beneficial to your needs and even desires? Nuther words---would you starve, freeze to death or would you be able to make do. I'm not even taking into consideration stealing from your neighbors or friends. We're talking about surviving until things got back on track and were "normal" again. Yes, I could make it but it sure wouldn't be much fun. It'd be a lot of work I'm sure but not much different than the way life was back in the 40's and 50's.

This is kinda a stoopid thought maybe but then again--maybe it isn't. When folks live "out of the store"- never planning two meals ahead, let alone two DAYS ahead-this could be a real life situation. Many things could force us, unwillingly, into this terrible condition. Makes not much difference just what the cause is-being prepared is what counts.

Spring will soon be here. Do you have plans to become anymore self-sufficient? I think the times are fast approaching that those whom are not prepared will face a very real and difficult time. I'm not a "doomsday prophet" but maybe just a little bit on the "caution" side. Start preparing yourselves for some hard times ahead. I don't think the entire country will "shut down" but if money is nonexistant or unavailable then things could get real nasty in a hurry, if your not prepared some. Gasoline will continue to rise in cost as will almost everything else you can think of. Put out a little bit more garden than you think you'll need. "No man is an island" as the old say'n goes so it wouldn't hurt to be on speak'n terms with your neighbors just a mite. Old folks, little tikes and crippled folks have to eat too! Romans 10:9 -10

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), March 09, 2001

Answers

Always canned and did "homesteading stuff", but, last Christmas we got hit with an icestorm. No utilities for 13 days. That is including water (we're on a well). We did pretty well. It was cold, maybe not as bad as up North *used to live up North" but we had a few nights at 8 degrees. I used a Dutch Oven cooking outdoors, had prenty of canned food, plenty of wood. Wehave a large ranch with lots of woods and you could hunt forever if the Gov. didn't say no. Water well we had to rig something up to get a few ounces at a time of clean water. Have a creek which we used for the animals. I am preparing better. One better system of taking care of the animals, two handpump for the well., three hurricane lamps and right now I am buying a wood cookstove. Now... if its the end time I just want to go first.

-- Debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), March 09, 2001.

Excellent topic. Thanks Hoot! I think I could survive as it is, but it wouldn't be pretty. I think we cannot really estimate our own internal resources until those sorts of moments are upon us. This is something I've thought of a lot. My grandparents have shared many of their experiences from the '30s... and they were plain poor folks from the start. I don't think the Depression affected them as much as some because they didn't have a thing to begin with. But they did have knowledge that I don't. And they were out in the country, with a house, which I am not yet. Also a consideration: they were not spoiled rotten with the opulence that most of us are. I am putting out a little garden this year, and working hard to get back home on my own land. Hopefully we can stave off the wolves at the door until then. Thanks for the perspective.

-- witness (carlaevans@hotmail.com), March 09, 2001.

Great topic Hoot, I come from rural stock who's grandparents survived the Great Depression by living off the land and spreading their shots work wise, they all had several jobs, some off the farm, some not.

Food wise, we could live off home storage 6 months, then would have to start growing stuff in the garden, which I do anyway, always have years worth of seeds stored. Waterwise, we got three wells, four improved springs that flow on their own, would have to carry water then. We have a pto powered alternator that our diesel farm tractor runs, powers the entire farm, so we could at least have electric once in awhile to use up what is in the freezer, and do laundry and cleaning with electric power. Enough stored fuel, fuel oil, propane, and gasoline to last at least 6 months to a year, depending on how conservative we are with it's use. Plenty (one in each room) of kerosene lamps, and gallons upon gallons of lamp oil and wicks, etc. Plenty of medical and emergency medical supplies, and the knowledge to use them (EMT certified). Plus all the day to day supplies no one thinks about and personal item stuff, you women know what I mean.

Grandparents trained me well, they would be proud, back then being prepared was normal and expected of anyone who had sense, now it's called "hoarding", go figure!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), March 09, 2001.

With our HMO, electric co-op, water system and short work weeks lately, we're already there half the time :>) Seriously, we have been prepared since Nov '99 and with the current economic situations (look at Japan), we are taking more precautions to better weather the storm.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), March 09, 2001.

Bring it on!!!!!! I would welcome anything from a major depression to country wide earthquakes to rising of the ocean levels to nuclear war. Anything that would get people to start thinking sensible again and caring for their families and fellow neighbors. Heck, I would even settle for them to just know their neighbors.

-- Tom (tjk@cac.net), March 09, 2001.

Foodwise, heatwise, we'd be okay, but having a well, without electric, we're sunk after the bottled water gives out! Husband wants to dig a well and put a hand pump in one of these years to take care of that possibility...

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), March 09, 2001.

Hoot, I get the feeling you're preachin' to the choir!!! Other than a few newbies, it seems most of the posters (and most lurkers) are well on their way. Trying to get the "other" people (who think shopping is a daily event) to consider an alterate mindset, is the challenge...

-- Judi (ddecaro@snet.net), March 09, 2001.

I was just mentioning on my way to McDonald's for my nephew's b-day party that it's been 5 months since I've eaten out, and even then it had been another nephew's b-day party. We're surounded by woods, 10 acres of field, livestock, have several gallons of water on hand until the manual pump can be installed, a wood stove, generator (however long that will last), and lots of dried goods. The only worry will be holding the neighbors off!

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), March 09, 2001.

Food-wise, we'd be fine. Would run out of hay for the horses, and definitely need a generator and LOTS of fuel stockpiled to run the well occasionally. Also a hand pump--anyone know the maximum depth you can use one of those on? Could you use it on a 150' well? In one of the pre-y2k Countryside issues, there are plans to make one from PVC--have to dig that out and check it out again! An acquaintance of my mother's had to leave Arizona with her husband, who had injured his back, and stay at her father's old farm in Idaho for 1 year while the husband healed. They had no money, but did have the canned goods in the basement--some 20 years old. That's what got them through. She said they got mighty tired of canned fruit! Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), March 09, 2001.

My household will survive. We're all too contrary not to. Seriously, we have food stored back, a well that we end up having to hand draw much of the year anyway because it goes too low to pump, and we would hunt and fish until all the pressure from the general population called a halt to it. We have chickens, guineas, ducks and geese for meat and eggs, plus horses for work power/transportation. We also have woodburning stoves, plus we cook outside on an open fire much of the warmer months to save propane anyway. We could make it, but we'd gripe about it. LOL

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO CANNOT AFFORD WELL PUMPS--Have you considered a narrow-bored well bucket? You can get them for about $30, plus the rope and pully. The pulley should cost $5-$10 at a junk shop. The rope should be about 5 or 10 cents/foot. Try a feed store for the rope. They are generally cheaper than a hardware store. Also, spring for the extra one or two cents/yard and get the larger sized well rope, about 3/4 inch. It is much easier on your hands when you get the weight of the water pulling back down on the rope. Always try to keep your rope dry as this makes it easier to work with as well as greatly extending the life of the rope. For a truly long rope, I think a 5 gallon bucket would work well. You could coil the rope back into it as you draw the bucket up each time. You never, ever just throw the rope on the ground while you are drawing water because the next time you go to draw up a bucket, you will be scattering little bits of trash and dirt back into the well. If you have a shallow well, you can do the old classic technique of wrapping your rope around a board nailed to the right hand post of the frame that supports your pulley. When you get through drawing water you can cover the rope with the well bucket and/or a plastic bag if it is going to rain or snow. Living that way with a shallow well isn't really that bad. It would be harder with a deep well, but it is do- able.

-- (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), March 10, 2001.

Hi Hoot, good question. I gave it alot of thought pre-Y2K and the one thing I kept coming back to, was, what did the people do 150 years ago? So I started thinking real simple as far as preperation. 1st was water, we had a hand pump installed on our existing 450 foot well. 2nd was the garden, I made it bigger, really paid attention to growing things year round, growing only heirloom and saving seeds, and putting more than one thing in a garden bed. 3rd was heat and cooking, had a wood stove put in and bought a "4 dog" small cooking stove and installed it in the shed so I could cook in the summer too. It gets hot here. If ya really think about it, the generators and toilet paper and such are nice, but not necessary for survival. Just hope it never gets that bad, we don't have any animals for meat and just eating veggies would get old for us, but we could if we had to.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), March 10, 2001.

Good topic. been there! done that! for 8 days during the ice storm of '98 here in Canada. We were well prepared thanks to my husbands upbringing & my always wanting to be prepared for whatever. Still have some of our Y2K supplies. We heat with wood, have our own bush, have a pump that can be installed on our well in a short time, we grow all of our fruit & veggies heirloom varities. We will be getting into chickens this spring. We have kerosene lamps & kerosene to refill them. Probably have forgotten lots but have the basics. Jan (jcsears@magma.ca)

-- Jan Sears (jcsears@magma.ca), March 10, 2001.

Hoot, Ilove your post you always get people to thinking. My family and I would be fine. We raise most all of our food (flour and sugar is bought at this store) last year I canned 114 cases of vegies, this did not include canned meats, ie sasuage, beef, deer meat, and soups. We have a generator and usually at least 150 gal of fuel at all times, we do not have a well on city water but we do have a natural water spring just behind the house that we could always get our water from. We have a fireplace for heat and cooking if needed, wood is not of a shortage. We have oil lamps & lots of oil on hand. But just the other day my father who has been in ill health for about 9 months we were talking out how big my garden should be this year 1 ac now he suggested that I expand to 1 1/2 this coming season he said that he feels that we will need it in the coming year. And hey my Dad is usually not wrong. So it looks like inlarging the garden and place a few extras on the shelf wouldn't be that bad of a idea. Oh ya my neighbors are great we all seem to grow a little extra of something different and are able to pass it around. Oh and I also have enough seeds to last several years with proper management and replenishing my stock. Just one other note, during all the y2k prep that people was doing the one this that I did not understand people were buying things that need to be kept frozen, dah if the power is out and no generator and you live in the south how are you going to keep to frozen? god Bless.

-- Tracy in TN (emilyfarms@tsixroads.com), March 11, 2001.

Good question! Lots of us who were ready for a y2k hit were ready for anything and still are. It's unfortunate that so many people who prepared then have tossed it aside now instead of embracing it (preparation) as a way of life. Be Prepared is a wonderful life motto!!

-- Robin (robbins1@mint.net), March 11, 2001.

Food wise I'd be in trouble till middle of summer, cept for meat. I have the bunnies. But, I had to leave all my seeds back in IL when I moved in Dec, so I have to buy new. Don't have any canned stuff left, as it was only a small suburban garden.

I can do fine without electric, and heat isn't a problem. After this summer - let it all go!!! I'll be ready!!!

If it happened now - well - let's just say I wouldn't be a very happy camper (though I have a REALLY big tent!!)

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), March 11, 2001.

Personally, my husband and I were sort of disappointed that y2k didn't really amount to much. We are prepared for just about anything here. We grow most all of our own food (have for 24 yrs.) and raise Alpine dairy goats, poultry and pigs. My family thought we were nuts when we started stocking up on grain, hay, medical supplies, gas for our generator, coffee,etc. But I'm sure most of them would have been knocking at our door looking to camp out on our 95 acres and mooch food!!! I think that a y2k emergency would have the wake up call lots of people need. We were without power here for 8 days during the ice storm of '98 and we rather "enjoyed" it!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), March 11, 2001.

Janice, We put a hand (pitcher) pump on our well but can only do this if you can get water at 25ft. You can use a regular hand pump as long as you have a foot valve on it & no submersible pump in the well at the same time. At least that is what I was told when I wanted to have an alternative way of getting water in an emergency. We live in Canada so we have to take ours off in the winter as it freezes. Also we found with the pitcher pump that the leathers dried out & cracked if the pump wasn't used on a regular basis. During the ice storm of '98 our pump froze so my husband only put it on the well for a few hours each day & then stored it in the basement until the next day. Another good idea would be to have extra leathers etc. on hand just in case My theory is that I would rather be safe than sorry My husband's Father told us that they put grease on the leathers to keep them from cracking. I spend alot of time perusing this forum I just love it you folks make my day. This the best cheer- me-up that I know about. I am new to this kind of thing so please bear with me as I fumble my way around. God bless you all. Jan

-- Jan Sears (jcsears@magma.ca), March 13, 2001.

Good topic that has been on my mind a lot the past week or so after our 6.8 earthquake. I lived on my 7acs for about 1.5 years hauling water and using a generator for the evening lights. It's surprising how little water you really need for your everyday use. We're going thru a drought right now here in the NW and there has been so much on the news about conserving. They say the average family uses 300 galons of water a day!....I don't use that much in a month. Now that California has seen to it that our days of cheap electricity and water are over with maybe people will be a little more aware. How deep can you go with a hand pump?....I see one post by Annie saying you went down 450 ft??? I like the idea of a narrow bucket and will look into that. My drilled well is 230 ft deep with the water level at 90 ft so I was thinking of using a spool of 1/8 inch cable off a downrigger. I would do fine, it's all the ones that can't do without their Starbucks and lattes' that would be the problem!:-)

-- Kent in WA (kent@premier1.net), March 14, 2001.

Hadn't read all the post when I first responded, so I hadn't seen the question about the hand pump. First, have a professional well installer, install it. We learned the hard way. We have a 450 foot well, with the water table around 150 feet. They ran 20 foot pvc pipe, coupled together, down to 250 feet right beside the original well casing. The pvc had a pump installed at the bottom of it that goes in the water. The hand pump at the top of the well head, is then attached to the pvc pipe. BE SURE, to have check valves installed on the pvc pipe for the hand pump. This is what keeps it primed. They also put the pvc pipe alot deeper than the water level, to be sure the pump is always submersed. Our hand pump is really heavy duty. It's made from Baker Mfg., of Evansville Wisconsin. (and comes in differebt colors! hee hee). When I first went to the pump and well place, a few years ago, to inquire about a hand pump, they looked at me like I was crazy. Then, they had so many people wanting one, Y2K, that they learned real fast how to install them. They did a great job. If your well service business in your area says it can't be done, I will be happy to give you the name of the one here and maybe they can tell them how it's done. It's really a very simple concept. Our is not real hard to pump, even though it's so deep. Has alot to do with getting a real good pump in the first place. The handle is adjustable as to the pressure of how much water you pump up. It can be adjusted to make it real easy to pump, with less water, or a little bit harder and more pressure with more water. I'm not very big, and I can pump the water up on the high pressure setting. One word of advice, just be sure to have a professional install it the first time. We learned the hard way. We had our plumber install the hand pump the first time. Big mistake. He didn't have the well equipment, truck, crane, hoist etc... He also told us he put check valves on the pipe, which we found out later and to much expense that he didn't. The check valves are crucial for a deep pump. They keep the water primed, so you don't have to pump the water from the bottome each time. He also didn't put the pipe deep enough, so it was barely at the water level. It works great now, and have been grateful to have it many times.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), March 14, 2001.

Our well is 676 feet deep, don't know what the water level is. If a hand pump could be installed, how long would it take to draw water and is there a better solution? As for gardening, I hope to try biointensive this year. (Please see www.growbiointensive.org) The ground is mostly rock and clay, weeds don't do too well. The small (800 sq.ft.) organinc garden we had last year amazed us by providing a household of seven with ample squash,tomatoes,green beans,onions,and herbs. I am vegetarian, the only one here, but would like to have a few chickens for the eggs. Hoot, thanks for asking and wouldn't it be comforting to think that most people kept their wicks trimmed.

Lynn

Thanks, Lynn

-- Lynn (lynnannmb@hotmail.com), March 14, 2001.

Hit me with your best shot. Odds are I'll still die of old age, (or possibly being shot by a jealous husband when I'm in my 90's!) There's an ability called "survivorship", which has nothing to do with idiotic yuppie tv shows. Some of us got it, some of us don't! GL! (and stop by if you get hungry!).

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), March 14, 2001.

Hoot, this sure was a very good thought provoking question, very similar to the Y2K senario. That got our family up and ready. We are still prepared. When we moved to this piece of ground in 93 we decided to stay off the grid. Amazing how nice solar with backup generator works through any storm. We also invested in a backup generator that runs on gasoline with lots of gas put aside. Then when all else fails we have a handpump for our well. It helps to have access to a nice trout stream on our property.As far as food, well for our family of 4, we could go for at least 2 1\2-3 years. But we won't leave our neighbors, relatives or strangers starve. We also have the typical hobby farm, hens, goats, beefers, and in summer we add pigs and butchering chickens. Even so when it is all said and done, only our Lord Jesus can say how long He will allow us to be in His service here. I only have to be willing and available. He is so faithful to keep us in His loving and protecting arms. In His service, Debbi

-- debbi (snflr216@aol.com), March 14, 2001.

we'd be fine except that our meat would haveto come from the forest. AS we have decided not to raise any more animals for eating. We only have 1 1/2 acres and its just to much work to havethe whole yard filled with animals. Plus the cost of hay is getting to high forour means. I think we would miss eggs most as they can be used in everything. But if that happens we'll still survive. The strong always survive. I was sort of dissapointed when y2k didn't surface like we had hoped it would. THe country really needs a set back just to remind everyone what they really have here. WE take our country and living easy to loosly, and peole need to be more thankful they havethe freedoms they have. Plus they need not to take it all for granted. I do not think that our country is the best, it has a lot of flaws, and I think we should be looking for ways to embrace other countries ways if the are better like health care. Yes hubby is getting better wages these past couple years but we still can't afford health care. ANd medicad says he get too much wages. We always seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. But it is getting comfortable here after a while. keep on, keepin on.

-- michelle (tsjheath@ainop.com), March 15, 2001.