Last night I came home to find that our beloved dog had killed our beloved little bird. This, after living together for over three years without incident. My family is just sick over it. This lovebird had more personality than a lot of people I've known. We'd had Peep for more than six years. I want to keep him near. We heat with wood, and have a hot fire going all the time. How do I cremate this little bird and save the ashes? If I just put his body in the fire, he will blend in with the wood ashes as they fall through the grate. I would prefer to do it in a way that would keep his ashes seperate from the rest of the ash. I am worried that if I put him in a metal pan, I would end up with just a charred little corpse, rather than ash. I want to put his remains in a pretty bottle to set on the windowsill. I don't want this to turn into something disgusting. Does anyone have any advice?

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), March 17, 2001

Answers

You are, in my opinion; absolutely correct. Your question is bizarre.

Drop the bird on a hot bed of coals, and then let the fire go out. When the fire is completel cool scoop out the amount of ash that seems right, from the location where the bird was last seen. This should be a "close enuff' " solution. Should work just fine since your thinking is totally detached from reality anyway.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

If the container would be opaque, you might consider putting the bird in it and into the freezer for several weeks to basically freeze dry. Then seal and display it.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), March 17, 2001.

Take it to a taxidermist and hve it stuffed.

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), March 17, 2001.

I haven't attempted a home cremation, I've always sent the animals out for this service, however, I do have a few words that may help you make a decision. Immolation with the wood will result in mixed ashes, just as you surmised. I don't think that the fire will be hot enough to completely incinerate if you put the deceased in a pan and suspect that the results will be less than you'd like. Crematoriums use gas, I believe, and it takes several hours for larger animals, no idea how long it would take for a bird. I had my horses cremeated, and the resultant 'ash' was not very fine, it was large bone particles, and a friend whose family is in the mortuary business said that they have to grind down the bone ash to make the fine powder that most people associate with 'ashes' -- I don't think that they bother with that on the large animals, and a lovebird's bones are so tiny and hollow, that there would probably be very little 'ash' in any event. I don't think I'd like to undertake this at home, myself, or if I did, that the process would be very agreeable to add to your distress already. I have heard of using kerosene as an accellerant in destroying bodies, but I don't know if you'd have to repeatedly douse the body as it burned -- also not a very pleasant task.

Following a suggestion in a book I read, ashes of loved ones (or whole corpses, in the case of small pets) are usually interred in the flower beds around here, and under the roots of trees, to serve as a memorial to them, and a reminder for the living in years to come. My deepest condolences on the loss of your bird. They are very special.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), March 17, 2001.

if your fire is hot enough,, but the bird into a metal box,, then that into the fire,, itll take awhile, but the ashes will stay in the box

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), March 17, 2001.

Shannon,

Thank you kindly for your private e-mail calling me an ASSHOLE.

It was wonderful to be called an ASSHOLE on a worldwide communications device. Thanks again.

One more thing that you might add to my suggestion (and it was only a suggestion, based on logic) when you get the fire hot enough just jump (that rings a moronic bell) into the fire with the bird. Just for good luck, and a good smelling fire take that useless killer dog with you.

As I said before have a nice day.....ASSHOLE

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

Throw it in the compost pile,at least then it will be of some use.

-- Daryll (twincrk@hotmail.com), March 17, 2001.

I like Ed's answer.

-- Don (hihilldon@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

Ed's idea seemed quite reasonable but if that won't work perhaps you could get a dna sample of the bird if it is'nt too moldy.Burn the bird and then have each ash tested for a dna match. All matches go in the bottle, no matches goto the trash. However I am not sure what extreme temperatures as in fire do to dna.good luck

-- jz (oz49@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

I am so sorry you received so many down right nasty answers,and I am sorry you lost a friend. I do not know how to cremate a bird,how about buying a tree and planting it under it? Again I am sorry to hear of your friends death.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), March 17, 2001.

Shannon, I'm so sorry you lost your lovebird. I know how you feel, I stil miss my Budgie after five months. We buried him and made a loving stone for the spot. Wish I had thought about the cremation.

I would think if you use a hot burning wood, like pine, you wouldn't need too much. Do you have an ash pan that you can clean out before? If so, get a real hot fire going, clean out the pan, insert bird onto the hot coal near the bottom. (Please be prepaired for this, that will be the hardest part) Once bird is gone, push ashes through and scoop up as the rest of the fire continues to burn. Another thing you might want to do first (again, sounds bad but...)is dry the body out before doing the cremating. That will get a faster burn, less wood. I don't know if this will work, but it seems right.

I have a new bird now. He's not the same but he fills the empty space left in my heart.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), March 17, 2001.

Wow, has this forum gone downhill since I first began posting, a couple years ago. Where did all the hateful people come from? What did I say that could possibly have triggered such meanness from strangers? My thanks to those of you who posted real suggestions and offered condolences. To the rest of you: I'd like to try to see things your way, but I can't get my head that far up my ass. What miserable lives you must lead!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), March 17, 2001.

It is real difficult to keep a smile on my face, when you Shannon, find it necessary to send me an e-mail calling me an ASSHOLE....

Why don't you just grow up?

Everyone on the face of the earth does not agree with you.

I would like to publicly apologise for attempting to offer a logical solution to your problem. Since you and I do not think alike (not even a little) well I guess that mekes me an ASSHOLE (in your humble opinion)

If you are really looking for the source of the problem, may I (humbly) suggest that you use your mirror...

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), March 17, 2001.

Shannon, It might be pretty costly, but if you take the bird to your vet he will cremate it and keep the ashes sepreate from the other animals he is doing that day.

-- roxanne (roxanne@143webtv.net), March 17, 2001.

O.K. Shannon, did you or did you not call Ed an Asshole? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 18, 2001.

Shannon, I'm very sorry about your bird. It's even worse that you have to read nasty remarks from people who you turn to for help. You are absolutely right about this forum.....used to be a nice place to visit. I can't help you with your idea on cremation, but I don't think it was so far out. I'm sorry.

-- Cathy in NY (hrnofplnty@yahoo.com), March 18, 2001.

I cannot BELIEVE where this has lead. Vicki, I most assuredly DID call Ed an asshole, in a private e-mail, as he has repeatedly stated. Read his first answer, about my being detached from reality, (not to mention his hateful gibberish posted later), and tell me that I was not within my rights to do so. At least I did it privately, so as not to offend others on this forum. However, since offensive and hurtful posts have become acceptable lately, let me say again that Ed is truly, truly an asshole. What kind of monster would use my question as a way to hurt me further, when I am already hurting enough over the loss of my bird? If that's not an asshole, I don't know what is.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

I wont call Ed an asshole but,but he sure sounded like one with his reply.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), March 18, 2001.

Shannon,

It does take a while to get charred remains (cremation), but it is possible for the determined. Heck, anyone who has forgotten a roast overnight in the oven knows what I mean. (another day and I could have broken it into chuncks and used the charcoal in the garden)

If the bird isn't too damp internally (like, has it been sitting over a heat vent or in the sun?) it would probobly only take a half hour with intense heat (blowtorch?) to make genuine heavy ashes. I think if you wrapped the bird in heavy layers of aluminum foil, you could probobly set it into an empty tin can, and set that over good coals in your stove (very little fire here), and by the time the coals were almost cool, your bird would be ready to be (sorry) crunched up a little before you open the foil and put it into your pretty little capped vase or other makeshift urn.

It is really hard to lose any pet, big or little. Love is love, right? I hope your birds cremains bring your comfort, and anything else can be put aside, as it's worth is less than the time and heartache it will cause.

-- Marty (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), March 18, 2001.

Shannon ~ My condolences on the loss of your bird. They are truly great companions.

My own personal preference would be to bury the bird in a special place with either a special stone or plant/tree to mark the spot. It might be more rewarding if it produced something -- like "These are apples from Birdy's tree."

I fear attempts at cremation on your own would be a distasteful process without the desired end result. If you don't have one saved already, you might consider taking a tail feather before you either cremate or bury. If you have a good picture of the bird, mat it, place the feather on the mat, and frame the whole thing.

It's very uncharitable to try to further wound someone who is already hurting. My condolences on the additional pain inflicted.

-- Joy F (So.Central Wisconsin) (CatFlunky@excite.com), March 18, 2001.

Sound like Ed's only mistake was AGREEING with an obviously irrational woman.

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

Once again IF YOU DO NOT HAVE SOMETHING NICE TO SAY ,PLEASE DO NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL .You may not understand how a person could love an animal to this extent , thats fine .But I see no reason to say hurtfull things to anyone.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), March 18, 2001.

Oy vey! I can't believe that any one could be so cruel to a lady who is grieving. All right, so some of us couldn't handle it this way. Is it necessary to be cruel? Where is your compassion for someones pain? Shame on you who thrive on hurting others.

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), March 18, 2001.

Who is calling who an asshole?

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), March 18, 2001.

Personally I would probably bury the birdie in a flower garden or some such pretty place. I'm afraid the home cremation might not be a real good thing and might be (gulp) rather messy/ugly. I don't mean this to sound like I am putting you down at all, just afraid that what you pull out of the fire might not help your grieving if you catch my drift. However, you might try a local animal shelter. Some of them offer cremation services as a way to make a little extra money to support the shelter. This way you $$$ would help other homeless pets and at the same time accomplish your goals. Just a though...

-- elle (eagle-quest@juno.com), March 18, 2001.

Lynn , do you think it was ok to say "she is totally dettached from reality " ? OK maybe it is a strange thought , I would just bury the bird . But then again I'm not her . And yes it is OK to call someone an asshole if they could further inflict pain on someone who is suffering .Why can't everyone treat people as they would want to be treated ?

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), March 18, 2001.

The author of this thread stated that this was a 'bizarre' question. One might interpret this to mean that she might expect some bizarre answers. Had I started the thread, i would have appreciated Ed's most practical solution and got a chuckle out of his comment at the end. But then, I don't take myself very seriously,nor do i expect others to think like I do. I believe Ed's comment was sincere and then to be called an ....... Well I'd be upset too. Sense of humor,like religion ,politics,gardening,etc is a personal thing. Might be a better world if we didn't insist on everyone seeing things through our eyes.

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), March 18, 2001.

I don't think anyone needs to identify Ed as an asshole. He's "exposing" himself quite adequately without our help.

Sorry about your bird, Shannon.

I don't have a good solution. I do know that even human serving crematoriums give you a mix of ashes from your loved one, and whomever else has been burned lately.

I in favor of burial. But it's up to you.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), March 19, 2001.

Shannon....

I don't have an answer for you - but the metal box seems about the best for what you said you wanted.... You might have to make the fire a lot hotter, though - use a bellows.

As for some of the responses, don't worry about it. Some people just don't have any compassion, no matter what we wished. I fully understand where you are coming from, though I have buried all my departed pets. Don't let anybody bother you. The only opinion about you or your ideas that counts is your own!!!

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), March 19, 2001.

Shannon: Why not buildup a wood pyre, like the Hindus, cremate and scatter the ashes under a favorite tree? Love your big heart!!..Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

For Ken S. - Bring back the censorship. It irks me to see the forum degenerate in this way. This is in no way constructive or helpful to anybody.

-- David C (fleece@eritter.net), March 20, 2001.

Cremation requires VERY high temperatures to reduce bones to ash. The cremation ovens are built to do that. Whether or not you could get a stove or open fire to get hot enough to change everything to ash is questionable. It would probably take quite a bit of stoking and may not be safe for your house, i.e. cause a chimney or house fire. It is possible that since the bird has such fine bones it would not take as much to accomplish it. I would recommend that you have a crematorium do it and ask for the ashes to be returned if you feel this strongly about it. Incidentally, I intend to be cremated myself so I see nothing wrong with what you are proposing, just not sure you could accomplish it with a regular fire. I'm not trying to be insensitive here but you may want to try it first with some chicken breast and wing bones so you are not experimenting on your beloved pet.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), March 20, 2001.

Namecalling, in public or private, for any reason, is uncalled for behavior, and unbecoming to a moral and ethical person. I have been called crazy, lunatic, irrational, and far worse, in many of my posts. but have never, repeat, NEVER, retaliated in private, or here, with namecalling of any kind. People, and opinions, always differ, get used to it, that's life.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), March 20, 2001.

Annie, darlin',

I wish we could ALL be saints...

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), March 20, 2001.

Joe, we must aspire to be something, might as well aim high, tee- hee!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), March 21, 2001.

Wow...I'm really surprised to see the forum disintegrate this way. Please don't stoop to this kind of childishness, folks. And it was pretty insensitive of Ed to use this woman's grief as an opportunity to score a cheap joke.

-- Betsy in NY (sassyweitzel@yahoo.com), March 21, 2001.