I am trying to decide if I should invest in keeping my own buck for my nubian ladies. It is a fair travel to get to the nearest reistered buck, but I hesitate because of smell and unfamiliar with handling of bucks(fullgrown ones) Do you allow bucks to run with the herd or do you keep separated? I know people who do both. As well as my own use there is also a small demand locally for buck service. Advice, pros and cons please?

-- Terri in NS (terri@tallships.ca), March 17, 2001

Answers

You might consider buying a buck kid that you can raise for next season. We raised a kid, and became quite fond of him. By the time he gets big and strong he will be used to you, and you to him. One thing I regretted not doing with mine was teaching him to lead by a collar while he was young. He did come whenever I called him and most of the time was pretty manageable, but they do get big and strong. Bucks do smell bad, especially during breeding season, and I would not let mine run with the does unless I was breeding. They will pick up some of his smell, which can in turn make your milk "off". (You would certainly not want him with the does come kidding time.) Mine had a separate pen, with a nice strong gate. He was allowed the run of the pasture from evening feeding(when I put the girls up) til morning feeding when I put him up and let the girls out. That seemed to make him happy enough. It is terribly convenient to have a buck and be able to breed whenever. They are, of course, a little extra trouble and expense to keep. Be sure your buck has been properly disbudded, and if he is bigger than a weanling, that he is pretty tame already. If he is young enough, you can tame him.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), March 17, 2001.

You can have the sent glands by the horns removed also .It should help a little with the smell.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), March 17, 2001.

Terri, it is so much simpilar to have a buck on the place for breeding rather than driving all over town with a doe in heat, and you know she is going to come into heat in the middle of the night! Buy a young December/January born buck, this way he will be old enough and mature enough to breed even older does this July through December. Though a younger April/May kid could also work, you have very limited semen to work with in a buck this young! Since he is a youngster he will not smell and you can simply run him with all the does you want him to breed. Once everyone is bred, sell him and use that money to buy another buckling. With a very small herd, folks will say it isn't necessary to have a buck, and though alot of the bucks I have had over the years, stayed with me until they were very old men, now especially with the ease of transportation bucks go all over the US breeding does. Don't limit yourself to the 50$ billy down the road, buy the best you can afford, find someone who will really help you with this. Buy him with paperwork, buy him disbudded, buy him on a CAE prevention program, even with all of the above, we all have bucks out of first fresheners who would make wonderful bucks for folks starting out, yet we really can't sell for more than 100$. I have two, 10 week olds right now, nursing Mom who will be barbque tommorrow, and they have spots :) There are also breeders who simply have way to many bucks born, (16 bucklings to 2 doelings this winter :( I bought a buckling this year to then hear his sire went up for sale and so I bought his sire :) I am giving this wonderfully bred buckling to someone on this board to use, in the future if I decide to line breed him, he will be local enough for me to go and pick up. I also had another person on this board pick up a yearling buck today, she will get to use him, I wanted him to go to a good home, since I decided not to use this bloodline right now. Though I know in the future if I change my mind exactly where he is. Keeps my options open without me having to raise them.

Another great option is lease, either you leasing someone elses buck for the month, or keeping this buckling that you have used and leasing him out. Sometimes you can find really nice homes for your bucks through lease. And don't always think lease for money, think lease for doe kids back, think lease for barter. Then sell or butcher the buck. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 17, 2001.

We have done it both ways.First we bought and kept a buck on premesis for a few years.Then we bought a series of bucks and shared them with friends so we wouldn't have to keep them.Today we picked up our latest buckling from Dry Creek Farms and will keep him at home.They stink,they tear up fences,they must be kept seperate from the milking does and young Boers and they entertain guest with all sorts of socially unacceptable,but politically correct,behavior.All that said,it just nice to have the stinkers at home.If you think handling will be a problem,buy a young one and just keep him until he is around two years old.Then sell and buy another young one.Some older folks buy and sell each year.

-- JT (gone2seed@hotmail.com), March 17, 2001.

I have a nubian buck that's now a year old and doesn't smell.I asked the people I bought him from, why he's oderless.I was told ,when they disbudded him they also burnt his sent glands which are behind his horns.Thought I pass the information.

-- Steve (a12goat@cs.com), March 17, 2001.

Descenting by burning an extra ring, doesn't really do all that much. Urine soaked beards, faces, chests, and mouths goes along way towards the smell. If descenting worked 100% I doubt seriously your does would care to be bred to such a guy, certainly wouldn't ovulate and come into strong enough heats for multiples. I think this is why when you AI, you have such low conception rates, along with very few multiple births. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 17, 2001.

Male goats stink and they are just pretty much disgusting in general. They do all kinds of really nasty things, probably the least of which is peeing on their chin. You can smell them from a good distance away. I'd personally either just rent a buck during breeding season or buy one and sell him after you don't need him any more.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), March 17, 2001.

I resisted getting a buck for many years, for all the usual reasons, the stench, heard how strong, destructive, etc. But driving 100 miles in the dead of winter with a doe in heat--or worse, out of heat, by the time you got there--was getting very old fast. Two years ago this month broke down and bought one. Got the very best we could afford--actually turned out better than we could afford, as his dam made top ten breed leader that year--and got him at 4 weeks old. Bottle raised him another 3 months and generally spoiled him. My husband built a buck barn equal to Fort Knox, a fence Area 51 would love to have--you get the idea, we were sure he would turn at least beligerent if not mean, and be incredibly hard to control. Well, we over compensated. He is just as sweet and affectionate as the does, and never gets sarcastic or moody like the girls can. I like that his barn was built so he can be grained and hayed without going in with him, as he loves to rub up against me and be loved whether he just peed on his beard or not. He's huge, and could probably really hurt someone if he wanted to, but I'm sure it has never occurred to him. Even when you bring him a lady needing his services, he is polite and well behaved to the human handlers. He does stink in the fall, but it's pretty well gone by Christmas. And without driving all over the state, I now have babies in February and March instead of May and June, I know their pedigrees and what to expect. I use him for buck service, and make about $400.00 a year, which more than pays for his hay and grain. A great bonus for me with this particular buck is he has thrown 100% does. 38 last year and 18 so far this year. If you decide to get one, get him young, bottle feed him yourself if possible, so that he bonds with you, work with him a lot, train him to lead while he's still smaller than you, and it should work out just as well for you. I should say, mine is a LaMancha, and I can't say that all breeds would be as gentle and loveable. Kathie

-- Kathie in Western Washington (twinrosefarm@worldnet.att.net), March 17, 2001.

Along with burning the scent buds behind the horns on a buck, I find that clipping the long hair on the belly, chest, legs, etc. where it gets urine-soaked helps. I've even clipped the beards off really dirty bucks!! A sponge bath in a weak Pinesol solution will remove a lot of the odor. I've also used several 7 or 8 month old bucklings on my does at different times and these youngsters have no buck odor yet. My does still were very receptive towards them and also had triplets. Goats are just plain unpredictable, but fun!!

-- Macia (HrMr@webtv.net), March 17, 2001.

All three of my grown bucks are descented. It definitely makes a difference in the odor. Yes, they do still smell some while they are in rut, when you touch and handle them, but it is nothing at all like the musky smell that you can detect from quite a distance. After they go out of rut they quit peeing on their neards and the smell is gone. I try to descent all buck kids that might be used for breedingnow. I feel thatthey are more likely to receive humane treatment and timely care (feeding, hoof trimming, etc.) Horned bucks will smell a LOT worse than dehorned fully scented bucks, I think the horns put pressure on the scent glands and activate them somehow. As to conception rate with descented bucks, we've had two sets of triplets so far, only one single birth and the rest twins this year. All three bucks together did not smell anywhere near as bad as just one fully scented buck! As to letting them run with the herd, I have Alpines, which don't come into heat from about now through late August. As soon as it gets warm enough, I like to give the bucks a bath and then let them run with the herd. After August, I seperate them, both to prevent accidental breedings, and to cause the does to be more sensitised to them (the bucks, too). Then it is really evident when they come into heat, and you know exactly when to expect the kids.

I have not had any bad experiences with my bucks, with one exception. I had a buck with horns, who developed a real attitude. It got to where I could not trust him and carried a stick at all times to fend him off with if necessary. Most of the time he was gentle and wanted his smelly head to be scratched around the horns. Every once in awhile, he'd get an evil look in his eye and attack me, usually just a threat, but still it wasn't much fun. He also figured out how to use those horns to pry apart his buck pen and escape to breed young does! He was so smart, and he just battered his pen and feeder into pieces in his rage at being kept from them. I honestly think that the horns make a real difference in the personality of the animal. Do NOT get a buck with horns. All the others I've had and met have been nice. I like having the bucks around. They are entertaining, and it is nice not to have to worry about disease or availablility of outside bucks. If you decide to get one, take care not to let anyone play with him, pushing on his head or challenging him. Make him know gently but firmly that you are the boss and he has to be led where you want him to go and to behave, not to jump on you, etc.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 18, 2001.

After having our own buck a few years ago, and dealing with all the same problems the above folks did, we leased one this year. He got here around Thanksgiving, bred both does within 2 days, and was home for Christmas. The only way to go for us.

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), March 18, 2001.