Greetings to all at Countryside Mag Forum. I've posted a few times and thought I'd introduce myself so you'd know my background basics. My name is Eric and I live with my wife Valerie in the North East of England. We live near Durham City and are both committed to pursuing a self sufficient and non-wasteful lifestyle. That means we make everything we are able to ourselves and recycle anything that might be useful.

I used to be a teacher but got so stressed with all the beaurocracy, unnecessary paperwork and bull$hit that I packed it all in and gave my ulcers time to heal themselves. I do the odd bit of taxi driving now when I need some instant cash but otherwise we manage from what we can make and sell.

We grow our own vegies, make various kinds of soap, and make our own bread from flour we mill ourselves. I drive a VW camper van and make my own diesel fuel from old frying oil that I get from restaurants. We make glycerine soap from the byproduct of the bio-diesel production (glycerol) and sell it at craft fairs and farmers' markets. We also make jams, jellies, chutneys and relishes which we bottle and sell.

I use a polytunnel to grow greenhouse veg (tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers etc) and have developed a dehydration box that fits on top of a small boxwood woodburning stove inside the polytunnel that not only keeps the tunnel warm all year round, but allows me to dehydrate fruit, veg, meat and fish for year round storage.

I also do a fair bit of woodcarving with a chainsaw and also use an anglegrinder with a chainsaw disk attached. I make garden sheds from scrap lumber and old wooden pallets which I sell to other gardeners. Bird feeding stations, dog kennels and stuff like that also sells well at craft fairs.

We are now into rabbit breeding as a direct result of the foot and mouth fiasco and I'm developing a wormery to help the vegie garden along with lots of nice compost worms.

We are having a real hard time with Foot and Mouth over here just now and it really looks like the end for agriculture in Britain. I posted a progress report a few days ago and today the government officialy stated that the disease is completely out of control.

They are talking about widening the cull of non-infected animals to areas of the country that don't even have a sniff of FMD. Optimistic estimates guess that it might peak in July or August but by then our farmers will all be bankrupt and the tourist industry is laying off thousands even now. What it will be like at the end of a non-existant summer season is anyone's guess. I suspect there will be a lot of hungry people in Britain later on this year.

Unfortunately here in England, we can't own firearms of any sort even for self protection. Even a 12 guage shotgun requires a special police licence, police criminal record check, police inspection of prospective applicant's property to ensure safe storage etc. and you need a damn good reason for wanting one - like being a farmer or rich landowner. The police will refuse a licence unless you can prove a REAL NEED for owning one.

Anyway, it's nice to have somewhere like this to visit and talk about stuff of mutual interest. I look forward to exchanging ideas with many of you in the near future, and a big thanks to Sue Diederich for introducing me to this forum.

My best wishes to all here,

Eric

-- Eric J Methven (e_methven@btinternet.com), March 23, 2001

Answers

Eric,mind me picking your brain for a minute? hope not. I hope I do not say thing to offend you or your countrymen but why are the farmers letting the culling continue? I do not know alot about your government but it would seem that the farmers would be getting real upset at this point,and fighting back. What is it like on a day to day bases over there w/ the f&md? does the media keep up w/ it and the local governments? Sorry to ask so many questions but maybe you can offer a different view point. Thanks again.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), March 23, 2001.

Eric:

How far away is your goverment from just throwing in the towel and starting countywide vaccinations for F&MD - admitted losing any hope of a F&MD-free trading status for a long, long time.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), March 23, 2001.

Oh boy, really good questions and I'll try to give the answers as I see them. Our government has kept this problem covered up for at least two weeks from when the first case was discovered. That got me suspicious from the start. Then they bring in too few vets, a system of testing that takes a week to get the results back, a system of slaughtering than leaves carcasses rotting for days or in some cases weeks, and all the time they take the official party line that everything is under control. Even today, Nick Brown the Minister for Agriculture said at a press conference that everything is under control and we have the problem contained - while at the same time, at another press conference, the chief scientist (the head technical bod - don't know his name) says that it's completely out of control and it's going to get worse. Today, the number of confirmed cases reached 500. That's 500 definite cases and 500 herds or flocks destroyed, plus all the flocks or herds within a two mile radius of each confirmed case. The head bod estimates the disease won't peak much before 4000 cases - sometime in July he reckons. Them's the facts folks.

Now, I figure the government want the farmers out of business - for a number of reasons. First, agriculture is the last subsidised industry in Britain. The others have all ceased to exist (mining, shipbuilding, fishing). There are some (quite a few) farmers who work scams to claim extra subsidies from the government. These are the greedy men who give the others a bad name. What they do is a system called "bed and breakfast". It involves moving sheep around from farm to farm when the man from the ministry calls to do a head count. Some sheep are being counted ten or fifteen times and the farmers responsible all split up the payout. The government are perfectly aware that this goes on, but because sheep are not marked with identifiable tags like cows or pigs, there's no way to prove fraud is taking place.

That leads me to assume that the powers that be, would like to find some way of stopping this multi million pound fraud. Foot and Mouth must have seemed like a godsend to some of them. Anyway, it's very convenient to use this as an excuse for getting rid of the problem and make it look like a terrible accident.

The farmers are furious of course, there are some who have declared they won't let anyone on their land to kill their unnafected stock. The police have confiscated their shotguns using the excuse that the farmer showed signs of emotional strain and they suspected he might try to commit suicide. What a load of friggin' crap! They're frightened the farmer will let loose with a load of buckshot if anyone comes to take out their stock.

The government won't introduce a vaccination policy - certainly not in any time to do any good. What will happen though is a complete destruction of British agriculture, an end to subsidies (nothin' left to subsidise) if and when those left try to restock, there will no doubt be stricter controls about animal tagging or tatooing for greater control. Higher prices because of shorages. Higher prices for imported meat because the home grown competition has been removed.

Some believe the public are getting a little bit too big for their boots and need to be subjigated. What better way than to starve them into agreeing with any new policy the government decides to introduce. Most people will even be grateful to the government for "saving them". Y2K didn't work, so FMD will be used to achieve the same results.

You guys have freedom as a fundimental right (so far), but we seem to have freedom as a sort of privilige that can be withdrawn as a sort of punishment.

Oh yes, one other thing, I think the fuel crisis of a few months ago might have some bearing on the government's attitude. The farmers and hauliers were the main instigators in bringing the country to a standstill with the blockade of petrolium refineries. Maybe this is a sort of payback time for them. Maggie did it with the miners after the miners strike - she closed the industry down and now there are no coal mines left and all our coal comes from China and Poland. She did it to the miners so why not get the farmers the same way.

This is just my take on it of course, but I tell it the way I see it and from where I'm sitting, it looks bad for the future.

Eric

-- Eric J Methven (e_methven@btinternet.com), March 23, 2001.

Hi Eric,,think I have seen a few of your postings,,Welcome to the Forum, I am new myself,,only on for about a month. Enjoyed your postings about you and family and England,,,As Paul Harvey always says, now we will know "the rest of the story"...(about F&MD)

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 23, 2001.

Hey Eric! Welcome to the forum! As you can see there are bunches of real good people on here. Friendly and ready to help out however they can. Of course, you have some that are big old hillbillys but they don't seem to hold that against me! Stick around a spell and maybe even old hillbilly's can pick ya'll's brane jest a mite. Matt.24;44

-- hoot, the old hillbilly gibson. (hoot@pcinetwork.com), March 23, 2001.

Eric, what do the farmers over there think the farmers here should do, Both to prevent the virus and to save stock that {may} get infected.?

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), March 23, 2001.

Welcome, Eric. I have to tell you, I've felt really helpless reading about all of this going on there. Trying to put yourself in someone elses place, to understand what a terrible impact this is having on the citizens, not just the farmers, but it will eventually effect everyone. Glad you are posting with us, and keep us informed! Jan in Colorado

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), March 23, 2001.

Eric,

My heart goes out to all of you in the UK. I'm researching my family history in the Hexham, Northumberland area. Not far from Heddon-on-the-Wall, where according to news reports online, is where all of the F&MD began this time around. This whole situation becomes more scary with every day that passes. It certainly appears that with each additional evening newscast that we have decimated the planet. Here in Canada we've just had Scrapie confirmed in southern Manitoba (province). For several weeks we've heard nothing but doom and gloom in the news...bad chemicals in fresh food, disease in animals, very different weather patterns... The Canadian media is a pretty conservative group, and they're beginning to sound like Greenpeace. And here many of us thought that Y2K was the scariest thing that could happen. For the longest time I thought I was a little loopy to be so afraid of our supermarket food supply, but then I found this forum. Looks like it's all coming home to roost, now. (Sorry to be so dramatic, all, but I was forced to make today my 5 yr old's last day of school. Another 5 yr old tried to lure her into the bathroom yesterday...and you DON'T want to know why.)

Hang in here with us Eric. If things get as bad as you expect, the more people who know the real scoop, the better. That way we can pressure our governments to help sooner. From the sounds of it, it would only be short term help, but some is better than none.

-- Rheba in Canada (rbeall@etown.net), March 23, 2001.

Good to have you with us Eric. It's interesting to note that people in other parts of the industrialized world have started questioning the value of the structured life in industrial nations.Maybe a president is being set by people like us. Keep us posted on your life style you've achieved, it sounds like your well on the road to self reliance.

-- woodsbilly (coleenl@penn.com), March 23, 2001.

Thank you Eric, for your long post and telling us all about everything. We really are confused and feeling quite sick about this whole thing. It has sounded fishy from the beginning, nothing making any sense. I think we are still confused as to what is so important about being a "HMD free" country. After all, the wildlife can get it also, and Great Britian has been importing meat from "unclean" countries, seems sooner or later, every country will get it. What is the big deal.

In another thread, Tiffini's father-in-law used to farm over there, and he said they just treated the sick ones with wine vinegar and something else, and went on about their day. What do the older farmers say about all this hub-bub?

I would think the US would start vacinations right now, and live with it. Great Britian is going to lose 22 million animals? I think the burning piles will generate smoke around the world. Talk about toxic fumes. What you said makes a lot of sense, there has to be another reason for all this madness.

I also think this has something to do with the EEC getting control of the world's food supply. (yes, I'm leary) I keep track of what they are doing on the news and internet.

My husband Steve and I have dairy goats, horses, a donkey, and we raise working Border Collies. We sold our cows and sheep, but will be getting some more this summer. If in all the world I could travel somewhere, it would be to see the country over there. We watch the BBC. I fell in love with the country years ago reading the James Herriot books. (over and over) As I told you, my grandpa Ferguson was from Scotland. Again, thanks for joining us.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@hotmail.com), March 23, 2001.

Cindy, mass vaccinating isn't going to work over here. "There are seven immunologically distinct virus types, with over 60 specific subtypes. The development of immunity after natural exposure or vaccination is highly type-specific, and to a lesser extent, subtype- specific..............Constant surveillance of outbreaks is necessary to monitor changes in virus type so that appropriate vaccine formulations can be maintained." quote out of Goat Medicine.

So this virus has many forms, and they can change as the disease moves from species to species, and new vaccinations would need to be formulated. When you start reading the USDA, APHIS, and State Animal Health Agency information you get quite a different picture than you do from the press. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 24, 2001.

Eric, thought you knew about Countryside, most on the Backwoods site also come here, but better late than never ! Anyway, welcome.

-- Carol Koller (ckoller@netsync.net), March 24, 2001.

Eric, I'd be interested in knowing more about the construction of your polytunnel greenhouse. Is it cheap to build? Friend, I need something cheap. What do you use for the ribs, and what type of plastic do you think works best? Folks over here are worried about a recession. My own economy has already GONE to recess!!!!! Thanks.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), March 25, 2001.

Eric,

Glad to see your posting here. I look forward to hearing more on your experiences with the rabbits and worms. My family is already moving in that direction due to economic factors in regard to beef prices.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), March 25, 2001.

Eric!!

Welcome! I'm glad you started posting here, too! I was wondering if I could get you to email me your page on the rabbits again.... Lost it in the threads at BHM, but though I might give it a whirl!

There was a map of all the places in the world that had FMD outbreaks last year... I will TRY to post it on both boards, but I am completely illiterate STILL about those things. It amazes me that we haven't got it here yet.... Hoping we don't -

Anyway - welcome!!!

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), March 26, 2001.