why is version 35 final being used? whats wrong with the version 36 final?

-- brad (cmdrtsl@earthlink.net), April 05, 2001

Answers

Being used for what? Tournaments?

Because they're supposed to use a TG version of MAME. The next tournaments will either use .37b9tg2 or .37final-tg... depends on whether or not M.L. does another TG version when .37 final comes out.

-- Matt Denham (peng@demongate.ath.cx), April 05, 2001.

As a warning, Marp will not be encouraging any future versions of ML's tg mame versions because of the lack of security these versions provide. Ben Jos is currently working on a rigourously secure as you can get version of mame that will be coming out possibly for the next Marp Tournamnet #6 and mame 37 final. Please use the official windows versions when possible and don't use win37b9tg2, since either one is about the same to hack for any intelligent hacker.

Ben's new version will require some of the top cryptological minds of the world to hack, and they probably would rather deposit money to their bank accounts rather than get high scores on video games.

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), April 07, 2001.

I don't appreciate this remark. I spend a lot of time going through the dos and windows versions of the code to try to stop the obvious problem with mame35. As Chris Moore pointed out, it was always possible to "you-know-what" by re-compiling the code. If you thought my additions to mame35 were so "insecure" why did you bother using it? All someone had to do was show me some code for better encryption and I would have used it. Instead, I get to see these comments posted on a public message board. At the very least I did enough work to save the next guy from doing it all from stratch.

I'm not aware of any other SECURE versions. Maybe someone has already got a polished secure version of mame, but I seriously doubt it. I have a lot of respect for Ben Jos' programming abilities, but if he had something finished I think I would have seen it by now. In the mean time, I think win37b9tg2 is an improvement over the old mame35tg3 and I would encourage it's use on MARP unless Chris Moore objects to it.

-- Mark Longridge (zero1@look.ca), April 07, 2001.

Whoa, did I miss something? When did you become the embodiment of MARP and decide what it will or won't 'recommend', Chad? I think you were highly disrespectful to Mark's work, and mildly delusional to boot. Mark has done tangible work for the community here and I'm glad that we HAVE a TG version for added security with our games. Get off your high horse.

Brian

-- Brian McLean (bmclean84@hotmail.com), April 07, 2001.

Jesus H. Christ, Chad...grow up and quit your babbling. That's all it is. I seem to keep hearing from you about this issue of hackable encryptions, yet you provide zero real input to resolve anything. If you are so knowledgable on this subject, quit whining from the sidelines like this and do something about it. Until then, I applaud Mark for all of his efforts in trying to provide a means to thwart cheating. No, it may not be the ultimate solution or perfect solution by any means. But, at least he's doing something about it...what have YOU done lately?

Until you decide to spring into action, let me quote Chris Jericho, "Shut the hell up!"

...and some people wonder why I'm absent from MARP these days...

JoustGod

-- JoustGod (pinballwiz1@msn.com), April 07, 2001.

I fully agree with Brian here. Were is all the respect that Mark Deserves after all his hard work with his TG mame? We have all used his versions of MAME in alot of tournaments etc. Without Mark the security would have been ZERO!

Cheers, and keep up the good work Mark!

QRS

-- QRS (qrs@telia.com), April 07, 2001.

I think i've respected mark enough. I aplauded him for getting the ball rolling with m35tg3. I was the first to congradulate him for starting with the mame tg versions and making improvments to m35tg2 to become tg3. when m35tg3 came out after a few weeks of testing the first version everything seemed fine, but then both me and ben jos found a serious problem with it, we mailed him for months warning of the problem, and all he could do is sit on his own high horse not admiting there was anything wrong with it and not even reply to either of us. This is just plain ignorant.

As far as anyone is concered, there is no difference between mark's new win37b9 version than the official one, infact Ben Jos informs me that the same frame information is recorded in it along with the so called encrypted frame information making it completley trivial to fake a recording with it. We dont need to applaud something that isn't doing what it's supposed to do; keep everyone on an even playing level. I'm sorry but mark has taken credit for something that doesn't deserve all that much credit especially when he doesn't even listen to any criticism.

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), April 07, 2001.

I should say I use m35tg3 because it's the only thing out there, we do have Mark to thank gratefully for this version, yes at least there is something. The new 37b version is less secure and will not compete with the encryption, security, and ease of use (able to pause while playing back but not while recording) with MameTE BenJos's new version. And Pat Laffey (who is a stronger voice than my high horse at Marp now) has recommended, and the rest of the editors agreed, to discourage use of win37b9. m35tg3 will always be accepted.

JoustGod: I don't have as much training in encryption as Ben Jos has, but I was planning on making a secure version of mame and talking with zwaxy about security issues before Mark even knew inp's weren't secure. And me nor Ben Jos nor Mark would/should talk publically about specific things that might go into a secure version of mame to protect it's own security.

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), April 08, 2001.

Chad, you are clued out. It's obvious you didn't even look at the inp yourself. The encryption method was changed. The problem you are referring was in tg1, that's why there was a 2nd version. Yes, Ben Jos was good enough to tell me about it and the first version was removed.

I was never "on my high horse". I suggested to Ben Jos many months ago to come up with a better encryption method. Nothing was done, since both Ben Jos and I work at our jobs full time. What do you think this is, the NSA? I looked at the code as time permitted. I thought about ways to improve it.

That's about all I have to say about it. It's a part time hobby, and I allocate my time accordingly.

-- Mark Longridge (zero1@look.ca), April 08, 2001.

My opinion at this point:

Chad, you're being a little annoying. Just because win37b9tg2 uses both encrypted and unencrypted frame info doesn't mean you can fake the recording. In fact, I'd be a little surprised if it didn't use the unencrypted data as a check against changes in the encrypted data. (That's how I'd be doing it... idea for 37final-tg?)

Worst-case situation: Mark becomes responsible only for secure beta versions every so often, and Ben Jos makes a new secure final version every two final versions or so.

Best-case: Mark and Ben Jos alternate on secure versions.

-- Matt Denham (peng@demongate.ath.cx), April 08, 2001.

Actually Chad is right about the encryption, Ben Jos figured it out easily. I don't have both the encrypted and unencrypted data in the inp for 37tg2. I had a long talk with Ben Jos about all this, and at some future time he's going to release the TE version. Everyone is welcome to use this TE version, even outside of Marp. He wouldn't commit to a specific date for release, probably some time after there is a mame37 final.

I'm grateful for the opportunity to help "pave the way" for a really secure version of mame for all the players. Personally I doubt rampant cheating is occuring, but if prizes are being offered then it makes sense to have a version as secure as possible. I'm definitely looking forward to Ben Jos' version.

-- Mark Longridge (zero1@look.ca), April 08, 2001.

No, rampant cheating is probably not happening, but It will be very nice to know that it isn't easily possible to hack inps. I wish everyone could see that goal is such a nice thing to work towards and that's what i'm trying to make it to that point. The encryption/decrypted data inclusion just scared me (Ben Jos mostly) and I thought we were going to go through another run around... I am gratefull for your work Mark and the big issue why better versions don't come out IS because lack of time able to be spent on this. Something I'm sure everyone wishes they had more of. Ben Jos actually said he'd have mameTE done last year, he has a lot of it done but still needs to find that extra smidgeon of time to finish it off. we're all looking forward to that, but we'll of course have to wait, what's that saying "we'll sell no whine untill it's time..." heh. thanks for tg2.

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), April 10, 2001.